Started playing Azir, Noticed a few things

Oelyk··2 votes·690 views

Hi there, My username's Lazy cat and I've been play Azir for like... 9 games now? Of course, utilizing the great practice tool the league gods, Riot employees, granted us, I practice the god skill, "Shuriman shuffle," which I lovingly re-dubbed "Potentially-super-long-range-but-requires-perfect-timing-and-good-ping-or-else-it-looks-really-weird-and-feels-strange."

Okay my reasoning for this, for those of you who do not understand how Azir's (And for briefness sake, we will continue to call it the Shuffle) long range shuffle works, the basic principle of it is that your soldier you place expends your range, while casting E to move towards it, and in the frames before you finish the dash(E), you cast Q to move the soldier with Azir in toll to the second location, hence total range is E+Q(Of if you are fancy, walk back from Initial soldier and then the range is longer). Since Q's range is centered around Azir and you have to time it just right, it makes this combo increasingly difficult and it is nigh impossible to pull off for higher ping(60+) players in tight situations where you really need the maximum range and not just panic activate Q the second you hit E. I know this is an intended combo, but it takes so much time and love to nurture the timing so that in any situation it's possible to pull off the maximum effect.

Now you may be asking(Although you probably are not): "Lazy cat, you have only 9 games, why in anyway are you justified to talk about this? you have no credit what so ever! You probably just want Azir to be buffed!"

Because I am the new player to Azir, not the one-trick in this learning champion expierience. I want to list out my reasons for why I am so passionate about Azir even after 9 games.

Why I love Azir: He was voiced by the same guy who did Talon. His game-play is so much fun. He is versatile. He would be a cool champion to master. He is someone I can pick into almost any situation while being fairly confident that the team composition will not be compromised.

What really irks me about Azir: It's hard to know his exact range. His combos are difficult to maximize the potential

What I mean basically is, how can I know the exact range of the shuffle? Will the spear from Q actually hit at max range or can I only auto attack and miss a thunderlords proc because the Q range does not extend to the soldiers stab range? How far away can I be from a soldier and still command it without walking back to it in a potentially really bad spot to walk back into?

The lack of clarity is pretty astounding(Kinda reminds me of Riven's animation cancels, good luck learning those.)

Anyhow, conclusion, I love Azir, but I think he is not getting the popularity he deserves, even as a more difficult champion because not only is he hard to learn to position, not only himself but also his sand soldiers, but it's really hard for new players to know what to de besides use Q&autos and then R if anyone gets close. Even then I often in lane being very confused about using Q on enemy and looking like it hit, but no damage is applied and then soldier auto attacks, that needs to be addressed so that the soldier's Q stab through extends out to his auto range, but his positioning remains the same. About the shuffle, I thought about it a little, but decided it was not a topic I was experienced enough about, I did want to say QE should not have such a huge delay, cause using EQ is more time efficient(and has longer range, but twice as risky). Also, It's so unclear how far away Azir can be from a soldier and still attack, I have found at multiple times, walking back to use and auto attack for a soldier I did not want to walk back into that fed Riven running me down.

TL:DR Indicate range of Azir's commandable soldiers.(E.g. like reneger's leap indicator, any soldier within that indicator is able to be commanded anything within it's own range.) Make Q "Stab through" range keep going past cast location to soldiers stab range. Shuffle is to gimmicky, Perhaps it's worth investigating reducing Q cast time so that E can be cast after quicker instead of feeling clunky.(Note, range would only be in Q range, not Q+E but it would make it smoother and easier for dire situations.)

Feed back is appreciated. I by no means what him to be broken, but want it to be a little more QOL for the newer population.

5 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

Ahem, Welcome Shuriman Acolyte! I bring good tid--forget it.

I really like your reasons for picking up Azir, and even though he isn't the strongest right now he can work with the proper team comp. Don't worry too much about it but just try to avoid picking him in a 5 man carry team, because you'll get no peel and you'll hardly get any work done.

The Shuriman Shuffle BTW, is a good tool for making picks, but do not think that you have to do it all the time. It's honestly more of a flashy gimmick than a useful tool. If you can wreck the enemy from afar, then do this. Because even in a perfectly executed Shuriman Shuffle, you're essentially handing yourself over to the enemy. The only way this is worth is if your shuffle scooped up the enemy carry and made them easy pickings for your team, giving them the ace. Because expect for the most perfect circumstances, you will almost certainly die after performing that move. If you're going to be giving up your team's best DPS (yourself) you'd be best off making sure the enemy suffers worse than you do by making sure that their carries die in the process.

Now then, on to address your concerns.

It's hard to know his exact range.

A good rule of thumb to use is that your soldiers will always attack for you in your Q range. If you walk a little bit further they still will, but only a step or so iirc. Also to ensure that your Q pokes the enemy, try to run your soldier through them to the other side, this way you can stab them while they are retreating.

The Q range in fact doesn't cover the stab range, it covers the actual soldier's hitbox. So it's very possible to miss the enemy with a Q but still get a stab off.

The skill cap IMO is a good way to filter out the uncommitted to Shurima.

If you got any more questions don't hesitate to ask.

Oelyk1 votes

Wow, thank you for such a thoughtful reply!

First off, I would like to say I am thankful for your explanation of the Shuriman shuffle! I clearly was thinking about it wrongly, thinking the pinnacle or Azir gameplay was to get a good shuffle.

Second off, I appreciate your little rule of thumb on the Q range, that makes it a lot easier to think about for the time being, and although reducing potential, increases reliability.

Thirdly, I may have been unclear, which is wholly my fault here, about my thoughts on Q and then auto-stab interaction. My intention was to communicate extending the stab range to the outer limits of the base soldiers attack range(Not a AA stab, which extends beyond the attack range).

Finally, I want your opinion on laning, I for one often follow the pattern of shove hard into tower so the enemy misses CS, then go close to poke with summon W, auto, Q, Auto and then however many autos I can get off after. the first three however and almost always garenteed to hit and will proc thunderlords for the small cost of 100 mana approximately for maybe 1/3-1/5 of there health.

I almost never go all in with E in lane, because I am always shoved I fear jungle ganks, but often still die being reasonably good at the Shuriman shuffle(Place soldier opposite to where jungler is, E then Q over a wall and run.) Should I be more open to walking up and then using the shuffle on the enemy(stacking QE is fun)?

I know shoving is a really depraving play style, but I also know he is versatile to play back and learn when the good situations are(I do know how to play it safe, Unlike most gold players I give up farm to avoid taking a lot of damage.)

I don't know the match up's well, so I just assume people like Katarina and Yasuo are REALLY BAD for him because shoving them puts me in a bad spot, close to them.

Also what do you build? usually my build path is thisitem 3115 item 3165 item 3006 item 3135 item 3089 and them probablyitem 3157

What team comp do you think has the most potencial for him? I was considering a more ranged shred ADC(Kog, Cait, MF), disrupter support(Janna, Leona, Lulu, Nami, Thresh), At least on front line(preferably top & tanky) and jungler I don't know.

I am shit at roaming, it roaming on Azir actually worth while? Cause his "effective range" early game kinda sucks without CDR to rapidly reposition soldiers to be effective. The shuffle is good but often they see me and I don't have the CC or mobility of Ahri or others, I have to land a perfect Shuriman Shuffle.

Sorry I ranted, and I am to lazy(hence the name) to go back and check it. Thank you!

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

No problem dude! I'm thinking of picking Azir back up, and this thread really jogged some old and fond memories.

Thirdly, I may have been unclear, which is wholly my fault here, about my thoughts on Q and then auto-stab interaction. My intention was to communicate extending the stab range to the outer limits of the base soldiers attack range(Not a AA stab, which extends beyond the attack range).

Ah, well in that case it may be a little strong, especially because the burst on Azir's Q is quite high. Especially early, which is why it's maxed first. This change may make him OP.

Finally, I want your opinion on laning, I for one often follow the pattern of shove hard into tower so the enemy misses CS, then go close to poke with summon W, auto, Q, Auto and then however many autos I can get off after. the first three however and almost always garenteed to hit and will proc thunderlords for the small cost of 100 mana approximately for maybe 1/3-1/5 of there health.

Well, if this strategy works than go for it. I for one played a more cautious Azir lane, not shoving hard unless the enemy makes a mistake and I gain control of the lane. For you see, Azir's early damage is quite low compared to other mages, this is intentional to offset his good early. But one thing that people fail to understand is just how bad Azir's DPS is early. I have played against Azirs before and have walked through their soldiers after they missed a Q and slaughtered them unless they ran.

I wouldn't recommend pushing so hard against lane bullies like Syndra or Brand. Especially if they have easily accessably CC, because then you become an easy gank for the jungler. If you can outsmart them with a E>Q dash then awesome. But better to not put yourself in that situation so you don't have to use it eh?

Also, make your priotity farming. Azir's kill pressure is quite low during laning unless you're running ignite, and as a rule of thumb I never want the enemy to be close enough for me to need ignite, because Azir pops like a balloon close range.

I almost never go all in with E in lane, because I am always shoved I fear jungle ganks, but often still die being reasonably good at the Shuriman shuffle(Place soldier opposite to where jungler is, E then Q over a wall and run.) Should I be more open to walking up and then using the shuffle on the enemy(stacking QE is fun)?

Good, you should never use E to engage unless you're doing a shuffle. Always save it as an escape. If you wish to shuffle your lane opponent, a good trick is to let them push you in near your tower. Then when they are close enough, dash to them with E then scoop them into your tower and let it do the work of murdering your opponent. I've caught an Ahri like this before. She had me up to my tower, I pulled up a solider right next to her then E'd to her. I then used my ult to shove her under my turret. She then burned her ult trying to escape, but she figured out too late that my ult wall stops dashes.

I know shoving is a really depraving play style, but I also know he is versatile to play back and learn when the good situations are(I do know how to play it safe, Unlike most gold players I give up farm to avoid taking a lot of damage.)

Well I wish I read this part before writing that bit on farming, but whatever. But yes, you should shove when the enemy is gone. Like when they roam.

I don't know the match up's well, so I just assume people like Katarina and Yasuo are REALLY BAD for him because shoving them puts me in a bad spot, close to them.

Kat... Yes. She will dance around your soldiers, your ult, and will generally murder you every time you step into lane once she hits 6.

Yasuo... Funny you mention this, but at one time Azir used to counter Yasuo. Let me explain. Azir actually outtrades Yas early game if you keep your distance and buy armor. Taking Exhaust into the lane helps as well. His windwall only stops your Q and your ult, and generally you want to bait out his wall with your Q. Best part is your soldiers can attack him through the wall, and your AAs are not projectiles, so he can't even keep you from farming.

I've killed my share of Yasuos who burned their walls early only to try to dive me and get an ult to the face to take a bunch of free tower damage and die.

Of course I've also had my share of Yasuos who saved their wall for my ult to deny the peel as they systematically chopped me up. So it's more of a skill matchup. But whoever gets the upper hand will dominate.

Also what do you build?

My build path starts with a item 3101. Then I leave it this way and grab the item 3165, item 3006 (If they have lots of squishies) item 3020 (If they have tanks) item 3135 (Only if they have tanks)item 3089 item 3285 and usually finish item 3115 and then pick up a item 3026. If I feel like I need tankiness over raw power, I swap out the item 3165 and item 3026 for a item 3001 and item 3157 to avoid overcapping CDR.

item 3116 I sometimes still buy out of habit, but it's not all that great anymore, as you don't get all that tankier. But if you really want to murder tanks you grab both rylais and item 3151.

What team comp do you think has the most potencial for him?

Any team with a decent frontline and plenty of peel works wonders. The more peel the better. Because the longer you can stand there and shred with soldiers the better off you'll be. Engage comps work with him, disengage a little less. I suppose the only really bad comp is a 5 man carry or a team with no CC.

roaming on Azir actually worth while?

Hue... Almost never. Azir is one of those champions who needs protection early game, from the enemy laner as well as the jungler. During laning his protection is his soldiers, range, and tower.

By roaming, you are essentially putting a label on yourself saying FREE KILL. Because a smart enemy will pretend to roam, hide in the river bush for you to get close, then murder you. Bonus points if they get the jungler in on it to bodyblock your E escape.

Also never ever ever ever EVER roam when your enemy laner is an assassin. Or a Syndra. Just spam that missing ping and then shove hard. If your bot got the message they will run and waste your enemy's time, while you got farm, denied them farm, and maybe killed their tower.

Oelyk1 votes

{quoted}

No problem dude! I'm thinking of picking Azir back up, and this thread really jogged some old and fond memories.

Shurima welcomes you back any time!

Well, if this strategy works than go for it. I for one played a more cautious Azir lane, not shoving hard unless the enemy makes a mistake and I gain control of the lane. For you see, Azir's early damage is quite low compared to other mages, this is intentional to offset his good early. But one thing that people fail to understand is just how bad Azir's DPS is early. I have played against Azirs before and have walked through their soldiers after they missed a Q and slaughtered them unless they ran.

I wouldn't recommend pushing so hard against lane bullies like Syndra or Brand. Especially if they have easily accessably CC, because then you become an easy gank for the jungler. If you can outsmart them with a E>Q dash then awesome. But better to not put yourself in that situation so you don't have to use it eh?

I have not had the pleasure of fighting them yet, The list is as follows:

Ahri Gragas Veigar Yasuo Brand lLux (Ahri twice) None of which were particularly bad besides Yasuo cause I messed up trying to shove and not be dashed too then just got tower pressured sense then. Gragas got poked so hard early and died, but he came back cause he's tanky, bursty, and high CC-y. Ahri's where annoying, they did nigh nothing early, but the second they got ult I started dying a lot. Brand and lux were just flat out not skilled enough to measure against, I side stepped/predicted a lot of there skills and hence got caught l a low amount of times. Now that I said that, I OP.GG the games and realized I have been facing bronze-silver players. Not exactly the best way to test and learn before ranked...(Low gold atm)

Also, make your priotity farming. Azir's kill pressure is quite low during laning unless you're running ignite, and as a rule of thumb I never want the enemy to be close enough for me to need ignite, because Azir pops like a balloon close range.

No worries about that, my farm is #1 if not #2 on a bad game so far. Probably due to my aggressive shoving I nearly doubled the enemy(if not tripled) + they were not high rank.

Good, you should never use E to engage unless you're doing a shuffle. Always save it as an escape. If you wish to shuffle your lane opponent, a good trick is to let them push you in near your tower. Then when they are close enough, dash to them with E then scoop them into your tower and let it do the work of murdering your opponent. I've caught an Ahri like this before. She had me up to my tower, I pulled up a solider right next to her then E'd to her. I then used my ult to shove her under my turret. She then burned her ult trying to escape, but she figured out too late that my ult wall stops dashes.

Good to know, I thought I was missing out on pressure, but this sounds way better.

Yasuo... Funny you mention this, but at one time Azir used to counter Yasuo. Let me explain. Azir actually outtrades Yas early game if you keep your distance and buy armor. Taking Exhaust into the lane helps as well. His windwall only stops your Q and your ult, and generally you want to bait out his wall with your Q. Best part is your soldiers can attack him through the wall, and your AAs are not projectiles, so he can't even keep you from farming.

Does Yasuo's wind wall destroy the wall or just stop it like terrain?

My build path starts with a item 3101. Then I leave it this way and grab the item 3165, item 3006 (If they have lots of squishies) item 3020 (If they have tanks) item 3135 (Only if they have tanks)item 3089 item 3285 and usually finish item 3115 and then pick up a item 3026. If I feel like I need tankiness over raw power, I swap out the item 3165 and item 3026 for a item 3001 and item 3157 to avoid overcapping CDR.

item 3116 I sometimes still buy out of habit, but it's not all that great anymore, as you don't get all that tankier. But if you really want to murder tanks you grab both rylais and item 3151.

Good to know! I always rushed Nashors, but the mana regen early from Morellos is actually really smart, thanks!

Any team with a decent frontline and plenty of peel works wonders. The more peel the better. Because the longer you can stand there and shred with soldiers the better off you'll be. Engage comps work with him, disengage a little less. I suppose the only really bad comp is a 5 man carry or a team with no CC.

5 man carry team no frontline, no cc is something I often saw trying to pick Talon or Jayce or some other silly mage.

By roaming, you are essentially putting a label on yourself saying FREE KILL. Because a smart enemy will pretend to roam, hide in the river bush for you to get close, then murder you. Bonus points if they get the jungler in on it to bodyblock your E escape.

I see. But what if you shoved, have ult, and you initiate the roam? I am getting the impression you think I am following a roam.

Also never ever ever ever EVER roam when your enemy laner is an assassin. Or a Syndra. Just spam that missing ping and then shove hard. If your bot got the message they will run and waste your enemy's time, while you got farm, denied them farm, and maybe killed their tower.

I understand.

Thank you so much for your wisdom!

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Does Yasuo's wind wall destroy the wall or just stop it like terrain?

It just stops it like terrain.

I see. But what if you shoved, have ult, and you initiate the roam? I am getting the impression you think I am following a roam.

Well in this case go for it if you know you made them back or killed them. Shove your wave to their tower and then roam bot to help out, depending on the situation of course.

It's rather easy to zone the enemy from their own tower, making it free, so this is definitely a good option if the enemy isn't an assassin like Zed.

I understand. Thank you so much for your wisdom!

I have given you nothing but what I have learned from my time as a Shuriman Acoylte. Now go forth and expand Shurima's borders.

Azir Shurima will once again stretch to the horizon.

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