What tanks need

puśsý··37 votes·15,851 views

A strong, expensive, and powerful item that serves as a significant power spike and allows them to scale into the mid-late game well.

Mages have item 3089 item 3285

Bruisers have item 3078 item 3161 item 3812

AD Carries have item 3031 item 3508 item 3153

When you build these items, you feel good. You feel you've achieved a big, meaningful power spike. Tank items are uninteresting, boring, and cheap.

I hope riot uses the upcoming pre-season to work on tank itemization.

111 Comments

TekkenPlayer12 votes

Tanks also need items that bruisers/fighters/adcs wont take on the side.

Tahminatrix 7 votes

That's where % defensive buffs come in, tanks need items that are better the more defensive stats you have, so even juggernauts wont get as much use out of it (but still enough to consider buying)

Dingding1231 votes

%armor/MR would inevitably be too insane and scale too well with healing. %HP sounds nice though, so long as %HP abilities and items are kept in check at later levels.

Ifneth1 votes

Could you tell me more about that first part?

BecaliRules1 votes

maybe they should do it since tank items have scaled worse than damage items for so long

Wrathful Chicken2 votes

That's honestly the most difficult part. People always find a way to go crazy with a full tank build on someone who just shouldn't be a tank. However, I can think of an item design that would match this purpose:

Goliath's Presence

item 3067 Kindlegem + item 3082 Warden's Mail Unique Passive: +100% Champion Size

Item Active: PRESENCE OF GOLIATH Channel for up to 3 seconds to disarm enemies within a (based on champion size) radius. Champions disarmed by this Goliath's Presence are only able to autoattack you, the Goliath. This channel is uninterruptible and can be canceled by the user, you can also move while channeling. 45 second cooldown.

If multiple people cast this simultaneously, they are also considered Goliaths and can be autoattacked. Kind of ruins the purpose of this item if you try that.


The idea is that one of the main distinctions between someone building tanky for the hell of it and someone building tank to accomplish their goals is the fact that tanks actually WANT YOU TO HIT THEM. Well, that's not entirely accurate, but the truth is fairly close. Tanks want to drag the enemies' attention away from their allies. This accomplishes that goal in the least abusable way I can think of while maintaining a simple design.

The channel is designed to force the user to be in a state where they are "casting an ability" which prevents the champion from taking advantage of having an enormous combat presence. The fact that they need to activate it, prevents stealth from being applied since they are constantly in combat while this is in effect. It also prevents the user from autoattacking or using their own abilities. While it could be canceled, you are just wasting the item if you are using this to engage since the enemy could just run away. This also has absolutely no effect on enemy ability-casting since it isn't a silence. It could ironically make it more difficult to chase an enemy.

While the active has many flaws, the fact of the matter is that all the flaws hit other classes the most. Tanks that want to "draw aggro" will still find a good use for this item even with the flaws. However, to make this item fancy, it actually makes you:

乇乂ㄒ尺卂 ㄒ卄丨匚匚

It even gives a significant benefit to making your champion bigger or playing bigger champions.

God Claus6 votes

I think that tank items are a lot more interesting than most other items in the game due to a ton of special abilities they have, that being said tanks are kinda lacking the big stat sticks other roles (except supports because who cares) have. There is also so many item counters to tanks that in late game you are kinda lucky if you live 8 seconds in a team fight because the enemy team has so much damage, armor pen, grievous wounds, magic pen, etc. That just negates your stuff. Small scale fights feel awesome but in team fights it's just like, why am I even here?

puśsý3 votes

[{quoted}](name=God Claus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3AzspMA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-09-11T00:42:24.290+0000)

I think that tank items are a lot more interesting than most other items in the game due to a ton of special abilities they have, that being said tanks are kinda lacking the big stat sticks other roles (except supports because who cares) have. There is also so many item counters to tanks that in late game you are kinda lucky if you live 8 seconds in a team fight because the enemy team has so much damage, armor pen, grievous wounds, magic pen, etc. That just negates your stuff. Small scale fights feel awesome but in team fights it's just like, why am I even here?

I agree - in small skirmishes tanks actually feel tanky (unless vs like vayne/yi/kaisa etc...). But when you have 5 people throwing everything at you - you just don't last.

SociopathFriend3 votes

To be fair if we ever reach a point where 5 people unloading on a single champion still cannot kill it in a decent timeframe I'm more than willing to argue we've gone too far.

Thresh Outta Fux6 votes

Step 1: Cut damage in half across the board. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Tanks are viable.

AlienPrimate11 votes

Step 2: all champions with any kind of healing immediately become pick or ban

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

{quoted}

Step 2: all champions with any kind of healing immediately become pick or ban

item 3123 or reduce regen rates down to healthy amounts as well.

SociopathFriend2 votes

Ah yes, "It's totally easy to balance with this one thing". Right up until "one thing" becomes "oh and all these other things related to it".

Keiaga4 votes

A tank has two jobs when they initiate.

1.)to survive 2.)to CC

The major items always give the tank health, defenses, and maybe even some CDR which help with exactly that.

The thigh guy5 votes

{quoted}

A tank has two jobs when they initiate.

1.)to survive 2.)to CC

The major items always give the tank health, defenses, and maybe even some CDR which help with exactly that.

Except their items don’t do that well enough.

Cool. You got a sunfire cape. You now die is 0.7 seconds instead of 0.5. Still not surviving long enough to make an impact.

Keiaga4 votes

Yes, exaggerations and personal anecdotes are pretty convincing.

puśsý2 votes

{quoted}

Yes, exaggerations and personal anecdotes are pretty convincing.

Are tanks tankier than other champions? Undoubtely, no one is denying that.

Is it okay for tanks to die late game in 5 seconds? Probably not. Currently tanks (in the toplane) rely on cheap items item 3068 with easy build paths.

Keiaga1 votes

You point to sunfire cape but that's a pretty mediocre tank item and is mostly built to help push. If you actually wanted a good tank item you'd be starting with item 3110 for armor or item 3065 /item 3194 to survive. As a tank your goal is to provide CC and last as long as possible. If you're buying a worse item for survivability just for the weak aoe passive, then you're shooting yourself in the foot

puśsý1 votes

{quoted}

You point to sunfire cape but that's a pretty mediocre tank item and is mostly built to help push. If you actually wanted a good tank item you'd be starting with item 3110 for armor or item 3065 /item 3194 to survive. As a tank your goal is to provide CC and last as long as possible. If you're buying a worse item for survivability just for the weak aoe passive, then you're shooting yourself in the foot

Sunfire is only good for early game and for clearing minions (especially super) minions. Frozen heart is a crap item which no one builds and basically just reads 'Mage now 1 shots me'.

Spirit visage and adaptive are situationally good.

Magnesium141 votes

{quoted}

Sunfire is only good for early game and for clearing minions (especially super) minions. Frozen heart is a crap item which no one builds and basically just reads 'Mage now 1 shots me'.

Spirit visage and adaptive are situationally good.

Frozen heart is a very good item it is my favorite it is not that bad.

Sinister Anubis1 votes

{quoted}

Frozen heart is a very good item it is my favorite it is not that bad.

Why build item 3110 when item 3143 exist?

Magnesium141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ninja Anubis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3AzspMA,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000020000,timestamp=2019-09-12T02:54:56.693+0000)

Why build item 3110 when item 3143 exist?

Why does Nasus always rush frozen heart, you get mana, and the slow for adc.

Sinister Anubis1 votes

{quoted}

Why does Nasus always rush frozen heart, you get mana, and the slow for adc.

You do realize randuins also has the slow passive to they both share cold steel passive.

Magnesium141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ninja Anubis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3AzspMA,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-12T23:00:07.944+0000)

You do realize randuins also has the slow passive to they both share cold steel passive.

yes, i forgot about that, but still frozen heart has more armor and mana

Sinister Anubis1 votes

{quoted}

yes, i forgot about that, but still frozen heart has more armor and mana

Randuins has more health an active aoe slow and reduces crit damage.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

item 3110 gives 0 hp and is situational against auto attackers who actually rely on attack speed (no auto resets or abilities between autos and don't have slow immunity) meanwhile item 3068 is one of the most cost effective tank items when you are only counting pure defensive stats..

Keiaga1 votes

Your a tank which means your power is going to come from the CC in your skills. 20% cdr and 400 mana to keep spamming is exactly what a tank needs over a weak aoe passive.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

400 mana is useless if you are dead before you get to use it and not building items that would convert it into ap / ad..

And why are you comparing it to the aoe passive of sunfire cape when I already gave you the benefit of not even considering the aoe passive in the first place? Or maybe you just don`t read..

Sunfire cape alone just for its defensive stats ->NO PASSIVE<- is much more gold efficient than frozen heart when it comes to tanking, that is the argument here, that has always been the argument here, frozen heart is a utility item that you only build against vayne because there is nothing else you can build against her, attack speed slows and steraks...

Keiaga1 votes

Whats gonna live longer?

A sion with 6k heAlth that just walks into the enemy team

Or

A leona witg 3k health that properly initiates and uses her stuns and armor boosts

If you think the value of CDR is so minimal you dont even bother acknowledging it, then it makes sense youre stuck on "gold efficiency" over whats actually useful per champ, per game and its no wonder youre having difficulty lasting more than a couple seconds while tanking

Tahminatrix 1 votes

Yes the value of cdr is minimal because its incredibly easy to get to 40% meanwhile the value of hp has been inflated with the changes over the past few seasons that reduce the amount of health most tanks are expected to have...

You already get 10% from runes unless you think a tank can use adaptive damage or attack speed....

Keiaga1 votes

Not gonna get 40% cdr if you have an aversion to building any item with cdr because theyre not "gold efficient" if you dont count the cdr in the first place.

I dont know where youre getting this idea of a tanks "expected" health or tge value of hp. Resistances have always been top priority with health as a second.

I dont even play tanks but i can volunteer 5 games of my time to show you how long tanks last when you actually play them correctly

Ralanr3 votes

A big strength to tanks is that they don't have a powerspike item that need to rush in lane. Do you know how fucking awful it feels when you're behind on someone like Darius, and you're still stuck building your core while your laner has two items on you?

Tanks don't need to get fucked harder.

puśsý4 votes

{quoted}

A big strength to tanks is that they don't have a powerspike item that need to rush in lane. Do you know how fucking awful it feels when you're behind on someone like Darius, and you're still stuck building your core while your laner has two items on you?

Tanks don't need to get fucked harder.

Why would tanks get fucked harder if they spent 3k+ gold on a non-rush item that actually made them tanky?

Spend more gold for a better item, be rewarded.

DeusVult2 votes

but the thing about those "better items" are that (other than tri force) they don't provide much other than raw stats until they are completed.

And having most items in the 2k6 to 3k area is better for tanks IMO. it allows you to vary your build more to address whoever is the major damage threat on the other team. If I have to build armor for lane, but then the enemy control mage is rolling in the dough, I'd rather not have to wait to complete a 3.6K+ item in order to decrease their damage

Aatrox Airlines3 votes

Then build armor for lane and build the major item 2nd or 3rd. The thing with such cheap items is that tank builds scale worse into late game because of the total gpld value of their build

Ralanr1 votes

Then by that logic, we already have that item.

It’s called Stoneplate.

Wrathful Chicken3 votes

Then we have to ask the more pressing question.

Why is item 3193 Gargoyle Stoneplate not good enough?

Ralanr1 votes

Because resistances aren’t actually that good past a certain point and reducing your damage doesn’t encourage buying it imo.

Ifneth2 votes

It’s generally a 3rd item at the earliest because it offers no base HP to back up its resistances. By then, carries have their cores, and Stoneplate just keeps you alive long enough to engage or peel.

Wrathful Chicken3 votes

Agreed. I would also like to add that typically by the time a tank has enough health in your build to justify item 3193 Gargoyle Stoneplate, enemies tend to have armor/mr shredding tools by then. It's for this reason that it makes tanks ironically feel squishy while building it. The same issue applies with item 3190 Locket of the Iron Solari.

Many armor/mr tank items are theoretically good, but they are gated by a requirement that is simply infeasible: having a boatload of health. item 3190 Locket of the Iron Solari, item 3193 Gargoyle Stoneplate, and item 3512 Zz'Rot Portal are all tank items boasting enormous health synergy. However, the very issue is that none of these items provide the health that makes it good.

This is an awkward issue for supports since item 3401 Remnant of the Aspect isn't as much of a health item as it is a health regen item. While health regen does synergize with armor/mr, the issue is that the items listed specifically have health synergy. The greatest irony of it all is that the highest health item ALSO REQUIRES MORE HEALTH: item 3083 Warmog's Armor. So even rushing this item to synergize with these hybrid resistances is bad since you actually don't have enough health to fulfill Warmog's Heart by the 3rd item.

This overarching issue forces tanks to build health + mr or health + armor items which pushes beyond the point where these resistances are useful given how quickly people rush resistance penetration. So theoretically "good" tank items are traps with the most unsound foundation. If you even attempt to pull it off, you end up devastated and feeling squishy, even though you are playing a tank. Thus, the only solace that can be found building these items is if your champion can easily take advantage of both armor and mr ratios in their kit with things like shields or ratios. It is the only way to justify getting items such as these right now.

Ifneth1 votes

It’s also meta dependent. Tanks used to play not to lose lane—and the strong ones wouldn’t unless facing an unusually talented carry player. Their cheap and high-stat items would let them quickly scale into overwhelming teamfighters. So Riot nerfed the items and buffed carry Top and Jungle champions through Runes Reforged.

This change freed those roles from tank duty but left Support with the entire burden of tanking. We thereby reached the current meta, wherein

Darius LeeSin Zed Jinx Morgana

falls off much less against

Poppy Jax Taliyah Caitlyn Alistar

than it should, considering its potential to outright win the game under twenty five minutes by snowballing small leads. We need viable, fun tanks to contain such compositions outside pro-play.

Sire Hippington1 votes

i'd say item 3068 or item 3025 are items you need to rush in lane, else your wavecontroll just sucks. Some can go item 3001 aswell, but one of those is mandatory on sololane tanks to have the needed waveclear.

Ralanr2 votes

Right, but you rush one or the other depending on your match up. It’s not like you’re rushing BC regardless of your opponent for a spike.

Sire Hippington1 votes

well, those that can't make use of item 3001 usually either rush item 3751 into an mr option or item 3211 into item 3068 /item 3025 vs magic damge, which feels really bad as you are forced into a component befor building another item.

Ralanr1 votes

What tank can't make use of item 3001? The only tank that comes to mind is Poppy because she doesn't have much magic damage, whereas every other tank has enough magic damage to make it worth it (even Sion who has a lot of AD in his abilities).

And even if they can't use abyssal, they can rush Visage.

HoldMyPlank2 votes

Plating should be nerfed, so that tanks don't get snowballed on in lane, maybe even give tank items some adaptive force (just a tiny amount).

This way defensive options can create an effect of loss prevention, instead of an effect of "forfeiting all my plates to the enemy snowballing bruiser who can just walk up and take plates while I play the drums on his ass because I do no damage"

KrypticBeing5 votes

{quoted}

Plating should be nerfed, so that tanks don't get snowballed on in lane, maybe even give tank items some adaptive force (just a tiny amount).

This way defensive options can create an effect of loss prevention, instead of an effect of "forfeiting all my plates to the enemy snowballing bruiser who can just walk up and take plates while I play the drums on his ass because I do no damage"

Giving tank itwms dmg just makes bruisers like darius stronger. Which means tanks get shit on harder

AR URF2 votes

The only item that I found to be very good for tanks is item 3194 and that's situational

GigglesO2 votes

It was supposed to be warmogs... but they fucked that one up when they didn’t want other champs using it.

They just need to make an item that has bonus hp /armor/mr based on how much you have... kinda like how ornns passive works.

Gives tanks big boost, stops abuse for squishy champs.

Barso552 votes

the issue is, against the rest of the enemy team which usually is 4 squishies or 2 squishies and a bruiser and a tank sp or something, ap items ad items that powerspike are equally effective.

If you rush warmogs your not getting its passive, if you get an armor item you are weak vs ap and vice versa. its not balanced

More from Gameplay

More by puśsý