[Concept] Caitlyn rework - Sniper

Bârd··51 votes·3,123 views

Stats

Range: 525 MS: 325 AD: 65-94 AS: 0.655 (+0-35%) HP: 490-1790 HP5: 5-8 Mana: 250-375 MP5: 6-12 Armor: 22-45 MR: 30-45

Passive: Perch

If Caitlyn hasn't taken damage recently, she can climb on top of impassable terrain, gaining unobstructed vision (though you cannot see into brush). Caitlyn cannot perch on top of inhibitors, nexi, or the sides of the map.

While perched, Caitlyn can shimmy around at 20% speed and is camouflaged if she hasn't fired in the last 6 seconds.

If Caitlyn takes direct damage, she is knocked off her perch and stunned for 0.5 seconds.

Q: Arsenal Toggle, 1 second CD, no cost. Caitlyn changes between her Peacemaker and her Revolver. If Caitlyn does not have a rank in Arsenal, she will weild her Revolver

Revolver Standard basic attacks, but with a reload system. 6 ammo, 0.5 seconds reload.

Peacemaker +100/200/300/400/500 range, double while perched. Basic attacks critically strike for a 1.25x multiplier (increased by 0.01 for every 1% crit chance) and ignore 10/15/20/25/30% of the targets armor. Basic attacks have a 3 second charge time, bypassing attack speed. After firing, Caitlyn must spend 1 second reloading the Peacemaker. If Caitlyn takes direct damage or the target dips out of vision during the charge, the attack is cancelled. Peacemaker shots can be body blocked. Enemies being aimed at can see a targeting reticle if they have vision of Caitlyn. When a Peacemaker shot is fired, Caitlyn's location is briefly revealed.

W: Yordle Snaptrap 1 second CD, 35 mana Store a trap charge every 25 seconds, up to 3/3/4/4/5. Caitlyn can place traps on the ground, arming after 1.1 seconds and Enemy champions who step on traps take 75 physical damage, are rooted for 1.5 seconds, and are revealed for 8 seconds. The Peacemaker gains perch range against trapped enemies, and Quickdraw prioritizes trapped enemies.

(Revolver) E: Quickdraw 8 second CD, 50 mana Forces Caitlyn to reload if the revolver was full on ammo, then empower your first basic attack within 6 seconds to empty the chamber, spreading the shots to all units within 350 range of the target, prioritizing champions. The primary target will always be shot at least twice, and units hit by multiple shots take 20/22.5/25/27.5/30% damage from extra shots.

(Peacemaker) E: Shrapnel 16 second CD, 70 mana Empowers your next Peacemaker shot to explode into shrapnel on impact, dealing (0.05/0.1/0.15/0.2/0.25 AD) bonus magic damage on hit in a 350 radius of the target, applying grievous wounds to all units hit for 5 seconds.

R: Ace in the Hole 100 mana, 120/100/80 second CD Passive: Reduce the Peacemaker charge time by 0.5/1/1.5 seconds. Active: Gain true sight of a target enemy for 8/10/12 seconds (Same range as your basic attack). Grant the Peacemaker global attack range against the target, and cause Quickdraw to zero in on the marked enemy if they are in range.

45 Comments

ModCaptainMårvelous23 votes

I find this very interesting, albeit I have some concerns. (This should also technically be in C&C considering it's a rework concept but it's got a lot of traction and discussion going on.

#1.) Playing against Cait.

So let's look at this from playing against Caitlyn. One of the reasons Xerath's W was changed was because Xerath would set-up shop two turrets away and pester you with shots you couldn't really avoid. I forsee the same problem with Caitlyn. By rank 5 (And I assume you'll be maxing Q first), you've got an ADC with at least an infinity edge pelting you from 1500+ units away. Yes, I'm aware the counterplay is getting close to her but if she's perched way out of range, this is an absolute nightmare.

This also forces you to have someone who can run down Caitlyn. You're not going to catch her with any old mage so Talon, Zed, etc. are an almost forced pick to deal with Caitlyn.

#2.) Thematic Overlap

A lot of your suggested kit follows paradigms and ideas already existing in other champions. While not enough to be a 1:1 copy, there are some things that are indeed similar. Her Q is basically just Jinx's, with switching between a long range/prodding shot with slow AS but high damage and a faster, more damaging close-range alternative. R is also very reminiscient of Jhin's ult, albeit the two already share some overlap. Finally, the idea of switching between a short pistol/revolver and a longer-range tool is something in Jhin as well.

#3.) Fitting into the game as an ADC.

Your rework of Caitlyn kind of leaves me wondering where she fits in terms of what an ADC can do. You have designated hyper carries (Kog, Jinx, etc.), dueling/1v1 assassins (Kai'sa, Vayne), casting ADCs (Lucian, Ezreal), Midlane leaning ADCs (Corki, Varus) and some mid-game bullies (Tristana, maybe Twitch?). Your Caitlyn rework is a bit odd. It feels like it's meant to be a long-range hypercarry who can shred through teamfights but the sheer power in her ult seems like it'd fit better for single-target assassinations at disgusting ranges. Cutting out 30 armor from someone who has 100 is a lot more painful than cutting out 90 from someone who has 300...if I'm doing my math right anyways.

I'll give credit that this definitely fits more in-line with how I view Caitlyn as a character and as an archetypal sniper. That said, I think your design has some serious problems that would hold it back from ever being integrated into League.

But fuck do I know. Kalista got in the game so hey maybe CT is scribbling notes on a wordpad before you can take this down.

Durzaka10 votes

By rank 5 (And I assume you'll be maxing Q first), you've got an ADC with at least an infinity edge pelting you from 1500+ units away.

This is the biggest terror for me.

Because Caitlyn can very realistically back off under turret/own jungle and while her support holds the wave/gives vision pop a few shots off against the enemy bot lane, and there is NOTHING they can do about it. Sure the support can block the shots, but then they have to base, leaving the ADC to get dived immediately.

DeusVult1 votes

especially since Cait could plan her perch with a bunch of traps in front, and then pelt with perch autos

sure they would be slow as hell because of a 3 sec cast, but they would hit like a truck, from a place where you cannot engage

datfatguy1 votes

How about 4.) Arsenal

saltran1 votes

No no, the lol version is 4.)TeamLiquid

Bârd1 votes

**1. **

The Peacemaker is great and all, but it has a lot of weaknesses.

  • If you dip into brush, you cancel her shot. Bring a control ward into lane and she can't touch you.
  • She can only shoot once every four seconds (pre-6). If she pokes you, she gives up farm, which any marksman needs desperately. Also, since her shots are single target (except Shrapnel, which does very little damage early on), she's all but guaranteed to get shoved under tower, which forces her to get off the perch since you're in range and she has to last hit under tower.
  • It can be bodyblocked. If she's just trying to farm, supports can bodyblock those shots to deny her gold (if they have shields or heals, it gets even worse).

2.

Yeah, but that's somewhat to be expected. League has a lot of champions who are defined by their skills with guns. What separates them is feel and personality.

Jinx has a fun, psychotic personality and a chaotic feel that really shines when you get a passive proc.

Jhin is all about artistry and flair, and his gameplay is so unique that I consider him closer to Syndra than he is to any other marksman.

The current Cait has a pretty generic personality, and gameplay that, while not completely terrible, doesn't deliver on the sniper fantasy. You could port her entire kit onto Tristana and it would almost as much sense, which isn't something I'm a fan of.

The goal is to make Cait feel like a sniper on stakeout. I can't write lines that give her more personality (just not good at that), but I can make her feel like a sniper.

3.

She's not a hypercarry here. In terms of how hard she can carry, she'd probably be around Ashe's level.

The Peacemaker is great for sieges, when she has the time and space to make it work. In a teamfight, you don't have time to whittle down the enemy, and they'll be on your ass damn quick. You'll have to use your Revolver, which isn't too strong.

She has burst from Quickdraw, a little safety from traps, and the tiniest bit of utility from her ult. That's it.

You still have no steroid, but with this version of Cait you also lack your Headshot passive and your Net's mobility.

I would absolutely not reccomend drafting this version of Cait if you don't have another carry. Doing so would be akin to going Hanzo as your sole DPS in overwatch.

When taken bot, she'd probably be best suited for comps that a Jhin would enjoy; plenty of backup and another champion to serve as your main DPS.

I think she'd be better suited for mid (or even a weird type of jungler).

Also, I usually post my update concepts in Gameplay. This is because the last time I posted one of them in C&C, it got taken down, saying "Put this in Gameplay".

Bluezy16 votes

I like the perch passive concept.

Sex With Annie11 votes

I do like the perching idea since caitlyn just feels like a longer ranged adc more than a sniper, but the revolver is too much. Cait is not jhin.

Bârd8 votes

The revolver is there by necessity.

In this version, her sniper rifle is incredible in a long range fight, but completely useless if she has to fight in close quarters.

There are three solutions.

  1. Let that be her big weakness. This is closer to DotA's style of balancing around hard counters than League's balance, so it wouldn't really fit (seriously, against a TF she wouldn't even be able to attack during teamfights).
  2. Give her rifle a semi-auto mode. I don't like this at all; I want the rifle to feel like a sniper rifle, not an assault rifle.
  3. Give her a sidearm. A bit of overlap with Jhin, sure, but it gives her something to work with in close quarters and a 6-shooter works pretty well with her "Sheriff" character.
Zerenza3 votes

Well, assuming Caitlynn is using a High Power Rifle, most sniper rifles are Semi-Auto. Barret 50. Cal for example.

What i'm concerned with is the Revolver and the massive Range, i do LOVE the idea of letting her perch but remember that when someone is in a wall Vision doesn't reach them(See Kayn) to offset this make her have a Red Dot Sight that reveals her location(so when she aims at someone the get an indicator for the direction she's in and if their within a certain range, she's revealed), in addition lowering the range while she's perched from being a max of 1500 to a max of 1000. Finally, make it so remaining perched drains her Mana slowly, kind of like a Stamina gauge, she can't stay up there forever and it's a bit unfair to allow her too.

Also, i should mention this, the revolver doesn't make sense with her because it mimics Jinx and Jhin to much, so giving her a Semi-Automatic rifle does make more sense, but the Perching idea is honestly REALLY good, it can't exist in the form you mentioned because it gives to much to her and too little to the opponent but it definitely could come to Fruition with some changes.

Infact i'd dare say that you could simply change her Passive, E and R and leave her with her Yordle Trap and Piltover Peacmaker abilities, switching her Passive E and R with something closer to what you've done but leaving out the revolver and instead going for a champion centered almost entirely on very long range combat and setting up a Perch(while still maintaining her dominance in lane phase).

Adjust it to fit these paradigms and i think you could have a really great rework.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

That's a good suggestion about the draining for remaining perched. +1

Ok sure but why6 votes

I'd hope for this to be a thing, but Riot is keen on turning all long-range attacks into skillshots Jhin Xerath Varus

Cait's current ult is a half-skillshot, since it can be blocked anyways

Jofeyy6 votes

Take away the revolver and replace E with:

**E: QUICKSCOPE ** Caitlyn does a 360' spin and shoots the 3 closest targets for 90% critical strike damage. Capping at 420 damage against monsters or repeating shots on the same target.

All shitposting aside I love the idea, the passive is stellar but the revolver concept needs a bit more work ^.^

Sharp Chedarr3 votes

Signed in to up vote.

Jofeyy1 votes

Thankyou :D

Sp33d Zer06 votes

Interesting concept but not a healthy design for the game in multie forms.

saltran2 votes

And has nothing in common to actual Caitlyn, it's just a new champ.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

Well, actual Caitlyn is cancer, so... A rework would be an improvement.

IxtaliKing4 votes

Really like the "perch" concept. This is a cool idea.

Arakadia4 votes

I like this simple rework, but this isn't caitlyn. She doesn't play anything like this right now.

datfatguy1 votes

But the way she plays right now doesn't feel like a sniper at all.

Flawless Fetus3 votes

You're right, but jhin is our "sniper" character.

XvWrathfulvX1 votes

Jhin however is not a sniper. Sure he has a rifle attachment for Whisper but that hardly quantifies him as a sniper. Thats like saying I have a hammer so I'm a construction worker. Sure you may very well be but one does not quantify the other.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

You're right. Jhin's w and ulti feel nothing like a sniper. Good call. It's more like saying you have a jack hammer, a construction hat, and get paid for doing construction. You might be a construction worker...

CasterGilgamesh3 votes

it looks like an interesting concept i wished Cait gave us more of a sniper fantasy then she does now

Foxynth3 votes

The only problem I might have with this concept is that the passive might influence some weird "Caitlyn Support/ Duo botlane" with bot being virtually ungankable.

Bârd3 votes

If you mean Cait sitting way back and farming from out of range, that would have its weaknesses.

A champion with a 3 second attack delay will have issues farming with autos, and a champion with a 4 second interval between attacks will inevitably get pushed in.

Also, she reveals herself to the enemy with every sniper shot, meaning that the enemy jungler always know where to approach from. She has enhanced vision, so she might see him coming, but she's even less mobile than the live Cait, so I don't like her chances when Zac wants a piece of that ass.

saltran3 votes

My problem as a Cait main is that your ideas are cool but this is not Caitlyn: it's an entire new champion.

ValyrianBlade3 votes

It's a cool idea (with some issues that Riot could probably work out so she's between a 40-60% win rate on release), but it's not Caitlyn.

Caitlyn is the long-range AA bully ADC. Regardless of her being a "Sniper".

Don't take an identity away from a champion who already has a really distinct place in the game and is reasonably well balanced. Make it a new champion and don't piss off hundreds (thousands?) of mains...

Foxynth2 votes

The only problem I might have with this concept is that the passive might influence some weird "Caitlyn Support/ Duo botlane with bot being virtually ungankable.

Hextech OwI2 votes

I absolutely love this concept. Especially the Perch passive. It fulfils the Sniper fantasy while staying original.

However think the Revolver should be tweaked a bit to make a clear difference between her two attack modes and enforce even more the sniper archetype "Stronger the longer the range is".

Something like this:

Revolver

Caitlyn's attack speed locks at 2.00. Caitlyn's revolver can fire up to 6 shots before reloading for 1.5 seconds. Caitlyn will automatically reload after 6 seconds out of combat. Revolver deals 30/40/50/60/70 (+0.30 Total AD) (+2 per 1% attack speed) per shot and executes enemy minions bellow 15% health.

Attack speed does not affect Revolver but each 10% bonus attack speed reduces the reload time by 0.10 second (caps at 0.30 seconds reload).


Number might obviously need some work.

That way it makes her having two distinct playstyles and build options. Attack speed is favored for the use of her Revolver and critical strike chance is for her Peacemaker. I obviously see an issue where she may be too reliant on items and probably very weak early, not being able to trade properly in lane. Since Riot wants to make melee champions viable in the botlane I have considered reducing her range while using Revolver but I think it would have been too much.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

Always a fan of your work here, and this post didn't disappoint either. +1

I like your ideas here, especially the perch, the ammo system, and the way everything fits together. As someone who used to play snipers in shooter games, I can easily imagine how fun it would be to set up traps protecting your perch and then fire at people from a distance.

What I dislike is that traps are still able to be set up like a minefield under opponent's turrets, which IMO is highly toxic gameplay. Nothing against you or your design, as this is a problem that live Caitlyn has anyways.

Edit: Holy shit, 34 upvotes in 19 hours, this concept got way more traction than most rework concepts get, good job!

Call Me Nana1 votes

I like the perch passive, but how will you check to see if shes there? There are some skillshots that can't reliably 'check' if shes camouflaged. Most notably, Oriannas ball cant sit within impassable terrain.

Bârd1 votes

If you come within the camo radius, you can see her.

Champs like Eve or Twitch can skirt enemy vision with their camo, but this Cait would struggle to do the same, since she's restricted to terrain and is effectively slowed by 80%.

Call Me Nana1 votes

{quoted}

If you come within the camo radius, you can see her.

Champs like Eve or Twitch can skirt enemy vision with their camo, but this Cait would struggle to do the same, since she's restricted to terrain and is effectively slowed by 80%.

Twitch isnt revealed when you come near him. Evenlynn is, but its because its a permanent stealth mechanic. Shaco is also not revealed when hes near you.

Bârd1 votes

Check your facts.

Twitch has had camo since 6.22.

I Main Swain1 votes

i really love the idea, the few things id say are that she also shouldnt camouflage for several seconds after climbing up to her perch, imo she shouldnt be able to move around at all while shes perched (idk about turning or not after the initial positioning, outside of realism i dont think it would be viable to have her not able to even turn), and require 5 seconds out of combat to climb to a perch. you could also make it so that she can switch to her peacemaker on the normal terrain, immobilizing herself and not granting the unobstructed vision, and maybe have her be granted bonus damage if the target isnt moving

Shrek Luigi1 votes

There's an American Sniper joke buried somewhere inside the context of this post, but I'm too tired to unravel it. Great suggestion, OP.

Daddy Ants1 votes

IRL Sniper rifles have a limited magazine capacity before they have to reload.

Peacemaker has 5 shots then has to reload.

She can still use her revolver while reloading though.

Reload time reduces with attack speed maybe?

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

Um no. Max Q sit under tower and 1 shot every one......

Bârd1 votes

That wouldn't work out too well.

If you try to harass, they just dip into a bush during the charge time to cancel the shot.

When you actually land harass, it doesn't exactly "1-shot". The shots have no base damage and their scaling depends on your crit chance. This means that while your mid-late game siege is incredible, your early game is something that can be survived.

Also, she's limited to one shot every four seconds pre-6. If she decided to go full poke mode, she wouldn't be able to farm, making her useless late game.

DeadUnborn1 votes

I like parts of the Q and R. The passive sounds cool on paper but things about wouldn't work IMO (anims while perched, advanatage of range for attacking being unfair)

FlowDartX1 votes

Or we could just have her get knocked back when she use autos and change her Q to her standing her ground and gaining attack speed(Semi Auto Mode) similar to Kog before he got reworked, she doesn't really need a sidearm and I think she needs to have one of her abilities be this perch ability, not her passive, I think a good idea for her passive would be kind of like Isolation where not if they are alone, but if they are within her sniper sight (You have to choose the area you want to look at, she can shoot long range headshots similar to how she works now. and her W would still proc headshot as well when she isnt perched as well.

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