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Sona identity

Bârd··11 votes·1,509 views

Sona is like a Bard in D&D

She provides aggressive support by buffing and healing her allies and disabling her enemies (though Sona provides a lot more damage than a Bard)

To break it down, she has 3 themes

  1. Poke/sustain
  2. Auras
  3. Music

So where is her poke and sustain? Got nerfed to shit, with staccato damage going down along with her heal value and her heal cost getting raised.

Auras? Not anymore. She has her little "tag zones", but those are not auras. Auras are Persistant buffs for champions who remain in an area. Sona's tag zones do not fit that definition. The closest thing is her E, but that thing is weak as fuck (1% per rank, really?).

Is the music at least there? Yeah, it is, but it doesn't really play into her kit. The closest thing is that playing 3 "notes" with her abilities causes her to play a "power chord", which is close to how music works, except in music a chord cannot consist of 3 of the same note. Besides that, it is her visuals, lines, and ability names. Despite being her main theme, and VERY prominent aesthtically, no elements of music are evident in Sona's kit.

Oh, and there is the whole "mute" thing. The silent emotes are a nice touch for that.

64 Comments

Eedat4 votes

no elements of music are evident in Sona's kit.

She literally uses music to empower her allies like every bard class ever. Sona's name and abilities are closely related to sonar which are sound waves. All of her spells literally are sound waves. She floats around with a giant magical table harp and uses the music to produce all of her spells. Her spells have both healing and damaging effects depicting the different natures of music. I.E. some music you listen to to relax or "heal the soul" and some gets you pumped up.

She is mute so her music is how she expresses herself

How is there no elements of music in her kit? Wtf?

Emmy Cha0s3 votes

We're discussing her kit and you're speaking aesthetics, these are not the same thing.

A song is something played over time. You don't hit 1 note and then say, "behold, my masterpiece." Beethoven's 5th is not comprised of a single line of music.

A Bard's theme is best encompassed by a long-lasting effect that continues either until the piece is completed or they swap into a new song, providing a passive effect for the duration. Having 1-time use effects that wear off instantly don't make sense and being melee-range is beyond absurd. Sound doesn't sit in one spot, it travels outwards.

Then you have her old cooldowns: 7 seconds representing the 7 notes of an octave.

I have to say, Fearless ruined Sona. Not only did he make her kit unplayable, he destroyed her identity. This is not a bard, this is not a music-wielder.

Eedat3 votes

We're discussing her kit and you're speaking aesthetics

How the hell is using her magical musical instrument to conjure magic and effects considered "aesthetics"? That's a core concept of her kit, not aesthetics.

Then you have her old cooldowns: 7 seconds representing the 7 notes of an octave.

So building CDR on Sona ruins her identity by changing her CDs. LOL.

Emmy Cha0s3 votes

How the hell is using her magical musical instrument to conjure magic and effects considered "aesthetics"? That's a core concept of her kit, not aesthetics.

You're trying to tell me her visual character model is not an aesthetic? How does that logic work?

She could be wielding Excalibur shooting energy beams and healing allies with its sheathe. That's just as magical and would probably fit the concept of single-use ally-buffing spells far better than playing a single note. How is any of this NOT aesthetic?

Eedat2 votes

You're trying to tell me her visual character model is not an aesthetic? How does that logic work?

NO. Her spells are music. No matter the visuals, she uses her music to conjure spells. Her spells are sound. They are music.

Emmy Cha0s4 votes

...and if Riot decided her spells were sword magic and she used a magical sword to conjure spells they would be beams of light or whatever.

How do you not understand that a visual model has no direct correlation to a tooltip that says, "This spell does 40 damage."

What's the difference between the following:

  • Sona swings Excalibur slicing an enemy for 40 damage at 700 range.
  • Sona shoots HexSeeker, piercing an enemy for 40 damage at 700 range.
  • Sona fires her handcannon, shooting an enemy for 40 damage at 700 range.
  • Sona conjures fire magic, burning an enemy for 40 damage at 700 range.
  • Sona calls holy light, smiting an enemy for 40 damage at 700 range.

How are any of these different from what she does now? Nothing. Nothing is different. All I've done is changed the aesthetics of her model and weapon of choice.

This is what you're trying to argue, that a visual model has some kind of direct connection to the combat system. That's not how logic works.

Bârd4 votes

All elements of music evident in the champion Sona are based in her character, some metaphors, and aethetics. None of it is reflected in her kit.

Look at her spells without the names or visuals.

Passive: periodically deal more damage and apply effects with your autos. Q: Shoot the nearest two units, and allies near you deal more damage on their next attack. W: Heal yourself and the most wounded ally. Shield all nearby units. E: Speed everything around you. R: Stun everything in an area.

tempo, tone, dynamics, intonation, balance, articulation, phrasing, I see none of it present in her kit. None of that screams "music" to me.

With different visuals, her kit could just as well fit a machine champion as it does for her (hell, give the autotarget portion of her Q a "missiles" visual and you pretty much have the W from old Heimerdinger)

Music is definatley present in Sona, but not at all in her actual mechanics.

Eedat2 votes

With different visuals, her kit could just as well fit a machine champion

what kind of argument is this? So if we changed Nunu's snowballs into fireballs his theme as an Ice Yeti would be ruined yes?

But besides that point, Sona's spells are music. It doesnt matter what the visuals are. She uses a giant magical musical instrument to produce spells in the form of sound. Thats not just visuals. Her spells are sound.

Bârd4 votes

If you were to change Nunu's snowballs to fireballs, his kit would not make sense. Fire doesn't tend to be associated with slows.

In any case, Sona carrying around a Giant Instrument IS a visual.

Sona's spells being in the form of sound waves IS a visual.

Sona's R making the targets dance while stunned in an aesthetic choice

Sona's Q does not deal sound damage to the two nearest enemies, it deals magic damage to the two nearest enemies.

Aethetics and mechanics are not the same thing.

Eedat3 votes

Seriously dude. Her spells ARE music. Visuals aside, she literally uses her music to conjure her magic. That is a core concept, not a visual. Just because they made the visuals match the concept it doesn't count? What kind of logic is this? Why would the visuals not match her concept?

Bârd4 votes

Visuals aside, her spells are

Magic damage to two targets Heal and shield Speed Magic damage and AOE stun

Her spells being sound is is a visual in itself.

Her visuals DO match her concept as a musician.

The MECHANICS she has do not.

Eedat2 votes

Visuals aside, her spells are

active effects then auras that radiate out in a circle just like how sound waves ripple out from the source

Her spells being sound is is a core concept in itself that the visuals match.

The MECHANICS she has do

Emmy Cha0s3 votes

It's clear you're just trolling. You know what we're saying is true, you're just seeking a reaction from us. Sona casts a spell, it has 2 actives(she does NOT use auras anymore.)

Her being a musician is aesthetic.

Having a momentary effect that provides a single-use proc does NOT encompass music.

Eedat2 votes

I'm not trolling. You guys just literally have the worst arguments I have ever heard. So far you argument literally has been:

"if we changed her core concept, her spells, how they worked, ignored the fact that they were sound waves, her visuals, took away her instrument, gave her a sword, and changed all her spells to fire magic, then she would have nothing to do with music. Also if her cooldowns aren't 7 then she has nothing to do with music either"

Emmy Cha0s3 votes

You're trying to tell us this isn't true? Are you saying if Riot changed her into a fire mage and said her spells are fire, you're saying her spells would still be sound waves? That's what you're trying to tell us.

You have no understanding of what aesthetics are. You have some deep-seated misconception that the way her spells function in a combat situation are directly affected by a champion's visual appearance and theme.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aesthetic

This game does not have different forms of magic damage. We do not have Fire Magic damage, Ice Magic damage and Thunder Magic damage. All of these are generically classified as just MAGIC DAMAGE. There is no "Sound Magic damage," just MAGIC DAMAGE. Sona's spells are not waves of sound, they are "40 Magic damage." No more or less.

Eedat2 votes

Jesus fucking christ let me add "if riot doesn't make a specific type of damage type called Sound Magic then Sona has no identity"

Holy fuck dude lets add them all then right! Brand gets a 'fire damage' category. Nunu gets an 'ice damage' category. Lux gets a 'light damage' category. Cass gets a 'poison damage' category. Nami gets a 'water damage' category. Ekko gets a 'time damage' category. Xerath gets a 'lightning damage' category.

Lets just add 50 new damage categories! No champion has any identity what so ever because Brand's fire isnt fire! It's only magic damage!

This is hands down without a doubt the stupidest argument I have ever heard

Narsicus4 votes

Here's the point, Sona's aesthetic IS music. No one is arguing this. However her kit no longer has the feel or a music/bard inspired theme, the only current tie to music is her visuals.

Music has many unique qualities, is lasts over a period of time, it is powerful regardless of volume, multiple pieces can weave into a single larger piece.

Overall music's effect is CONTINUOUS for the duration of the piece. You aren't effected by it sporadically while it is playing you feel it for the duration, and sometimes even longer.

Sona's old kit took many of these elements, auras persisted as long as you played them, could be twined with one another, held their effects for a few moments even as they passed.

Sona's new kit involves short bursts of power, which makes sense for power chord (strong moments in a longer piece), but as the focus of her whole kit burst effects just don't feel like music.

So while her aesthetic may still be musically based her kit no longer exemplifies elements and aspects of music like it once did, and that is why some people are disappointed with the change.

On another note all of Sona's basic abilities still have names that require vocals, that might be intended but it just annoys me.

IntakiNine1 votes

You're delusional if you think Sona's old kit was mechanically any more musical than her present one.

Narsicus1 votes

I listed several examples of what exemplifies music to me and how Sona's old kit had many of these qualities whereas her new one does not.

But your extremely well thought out argument has convinced me, If only I had considered I was just delusional.

darapier174 votes

what he said is that regardless of aesthetics, an abilities damage does not change. He is saying that you think that the aesthetics have something to do with how the abilities themselves work in comparison to what they look like, for example brand's q dealing damage has nothing to do with how it looks

after this is understood, we can look in to how this works with sona. This is a lesson, not an argument

Brownest Bear1 votes

every ability sona has affects an ally in some fashion with the exception of her ult... you keep saying that none of this reflects music at all but short of being a permanent aura like some everquest bard she is exactly what a bard is, her aura just has a short duration (that can be quickly reapplied with cdr)...

your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. her q is a buff to an ally's (and her own) next auto, her w is a mediocre heal, and her e is literally an aura... her ult is a sound wave so powerful that it stuns the enemies caught in it (which is really a thing, read up on LRADs). whatever you're trying to prove you're doing a really poor job of it. just... stop

Emmy Cha0s3 votes

What if they took away her musical instrument and gave her an arcade controller instead? Surely that must mean her spells will have different effects right? Cause apparently visuals are directly related to mechanics. Sona plays music because she has an instrument. If she had an arcade stick, then she'd stop using music, right?

Eedat2 votes

LOL you tried pulling this on another comment so I'm just going to reply the same

Oh yeah man! Optional skins totally count! Kog'maw is a reindeer! Nasus is Snoop Dogg and an Archduke! Leona, Yasuo, Yi, Lucian, and Fiora are all robots! Fizz is a fluffy bunny! Renekton is actually a dinosaur! Lee Sin is a boxer! Braum is a pro wrestler!

All these skins plus another 200+ I could list totally fit their theme!

This is totally a valid argument!

Emmy Cha0s3 votes

Obvious troll is obvious.

Eedat2 votes

How is this a troll? You said "hurr durr well Sona has a skin that doesn't have to do with music" so how the fuck doesnt it apply to every skin for every champion?

Atuko3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=el82vFwX,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-10-17T09:00:22.219+0000)

Music is definatley present in Sona, but not at all in her actual mechanics.

^^^^^^^^

Atuko3 votes

Can I ask a question? Did you play (or know of) pre-rework Sona at least once? Because if you did you'd understand why this is so important.

The auras she had before her rework would emulate that she would have to be playing the music the entire time for the aura to be active, whereas, with her rework, now she seems to be taking pauses or something.

She is just really...lacking right now in her concept, there is much more than can be done to sell the fantasy.

Plus her current kit is extremely too dependent on AP, and building Sona as a FULL support is currently useless.

Eedat2 votes

Did you play (or know of) pre-rework Sona at least once?

Yes actually I have. Dozens of times

Pika3101 votes

It doesn't show.

At least not from my point of view as someone that played her hundreds of times pre-4.13.

Unlucky Number73 votes

There was a very good reason for why her passive auras were taken away. not gonna list them. too tired.

Pika3106 votes

Not to mention those "reasons" being invalid excuses.

RedCyclone5 votes

"muh invisible power"

While I will have the opinion that it's better to have the active power when she uses an ability. The active is so weak that it may as well be invisible It pales in comparison to her giving out a bunch of free stats

Pika3103 votes

I'm not going to say having either an aura or an active is better, to me they're just two different paths that can be chosen in champion design. Neither one is "the right choice."

Was the idea of a kit of actives a good one? Sure, but it would've been better to give to a brand new champion rather than completely alter one that already exists.

Was it right for Fearless to play god and change something that wasn't broken? Hell no, that was a massive error.

Did he need to do so to remove "invisible power?" Of course not, that was an excuse and just like you say, her spells now are SO WEAK, they may as well still be invisible. You aren't the first person to say this and there'll be more.

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

a support should be able to one vs one an adc at least in the 5 lvl like braum,thresh ect... sona and nami just can't this is a problem

Eedat2 votes

a support should be able to one vs one an adc

WUT

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

{quoted}

WUT

IN THE FIRST 4 LVL ARE YOU FCKING BLIND?

Bârd5 votes

A support shouldn't be able to 1v1 an adc unless the adc fucks up royally.

The exception to this is when the support in question is...

a "support"

Annie Brand Velkoz Zyra Karma

In any case, Sona 1v1s ADC's all the time.

just not as support Sona item 3100 item 3174 item 3089 item 3285 item 3020 item 3157

Emmy Cha0s1 votes

Even then, it's not Sona doing the 1v1, it's any generic champion that has a Lich Bane and Echo. Both of these items are artificial scaling and have no reflection on what who bought them is actually doing. Without these, Sona can't do anything because her actual kit does not have any viable bases or scalings to win a fight with anyone.

If I could play a caster minion with Lich and Echo, I could fight an ADC too. Those 2 items don't care who buys them. They're what's doing damage, not their wielder.

Bârd1 votes

Not the point.

AP sona could do that before ludens was a thing.

Emmy Cha0s2 votes

Congratz, you swap out Echo for DEATHFIRE GRASP and still have 2 artificial scalings.

RedCyclone5 votes

DFG was a thing though

Bârd1 votes

DFG Sona makes about as much sense as DFG Xerath.

RedCyclone7 votes

Really? massive AP, cooldown reduction and a ability that amplifies you damage if you cast it in range Sona pressed dfg, ulted, q into q passive and that would equal a dead squishy

Bârd1 votes

Whether it is AP Sona or Xerath, building a poke champion as a burst assassin is not optimal.

Emmy Cha0s3 votes

How are Xerath and Sona remotely similar? Xerath shoots spells from off-screen in the fog of war. Sona has to get in REALLY close just to cast Hymn and then has to be as close as a short-range ADC to proc Staccato. These are not the same kinds of poke.

RedCyclone1 votes

Literally the main point of Sona damage is that she deals it in massive burst If it was sustained damage, I'll bet that no one would complain about it, but because you see a massive red chunk come off your healthbar when she hits you...

I mean fuck, right now at this moment in time, people are starting to realize that Sona is a better mid then support

Emmy Cha0s3 votes

DFG: cast range 750 units

Staccato: cast range 550 Hymn of Valor: cast range 700

terkmc1 votes

Nautilus Blitzcrank Taric Leona tanky suport can generally 1v1 adc early on if they are not stopped

IcyPepper1 votes

A support shouldn't be able to 1v1 an adc unless the adc fucks up royally.

Not ever?

I thought (most) ADC's were weak early game. Not saying that every support should be able to, but shouldn't supports be able to trade early game to gain a lead for their adc?

Rozzeta2 votes

This was the case in the first season. Since the ADC was weak at that point in the game, and supports with mostly defensive abilities could deal with them at that stage of the game, the carry focused on farming and lane phase became a farmfest. Riot "fixed" it by nerfing the hell out of supports, and giving a lot of early game power to the ADC.

But, as I said, that was back in season 1. Right now the game is much different, Riot made more than 4 supports, and the bot lane dinamics would be a lot healthier if the mid/late game champions wasn't also the stronger one in early. At this point, since the support itemization still heavily favors defensive stats more than AP gain, Tanks are the only ones that can extablish dominance early aside of the ADC.

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