Rioter Confirmed Lee Sin is a Favorite

NoobTangerang·Dec 21, 2016·46 votes·2,525 views

"For Lee Sin, he is just overpowered, so we're bumping him down slightly next patch - junglers are performing very well at the moment and he is the best jungler.** (He adds a lot to competitive play though, so we don't want to hit him too hard)**." -Fizz Enthusiast

He also confirmed, although it was obvious, all Riot cares about is their esports. **LC$ BIG PLAY$ **

Aside from Lee Sin, the whole jungle is a mess right now and I don't see Riot doing anything about it in the next patch.

What a joke.

69 Comments

DunkinNoobsDec 21, 201616 votes

Of course they do. Riot plays favorites with the same champions that the community does.

ZedexDec 21, 20165 votes

Thats why the entire boards has a raging hatred for Lee Sin or any other mechanic intensive Mobile AD Fighter.

DunkinNoobsDec 21, 20164 votes

The boards are not representative of the League Community as a whole. His massive pickrate at all times speaks for itself; people love Lee Sin. They also love Yasuo, Vayne, Riven, and Thresh, wheras the boards hate pretty much all those champions.

NiceTryViDec 21, 20165 votes

The boards are a representative as the community, because while those champs have a pick rate of 20-34%, the remaining 66-80% of the playerbase HATES them. You have your assessment backwards.

SkorchDec 21, 20162 votes

I mean everyone i know feels no resentment for board-hated champions being champions unless their numbers gets way too strong like yas a few patches ago, which is now fixed.

As of right now i am perfectly fine against Riven Yasuo LeeSin after ult nerf (although i do wish they nerfed scaling on it as well, but we'll have to see) Vayne i havent had to much issue with her after the nerf but i havent seen her at all either so i have no clue

NiceTryViDec 21, 20161 votes

Ok, but you are one person. The boards are thousands and thousands of people. The boards represent the community, not the individuals that are a part of it. Just like a head of state represents their nation, even though they probably didn't even receive half the votes in any election with more than 2 choices. Just because every single person thinks one way doesn't mean the community thinks that same way. But the largest unified group of people hate at least one of those champions, as you see tons of threads about nerfing them, and I have seen maybe one or two about how they are fine.

SkorchDec 21, 20165 votes

But the boards ISNT the community, If you are getting stomped in lane by a champ that you think is op, its very easy to hop on the boards and say "Yo riot wtf were you thinking this isnt okay." But people who never have issues with that champion don't have a want to hop onto the boards and say "wow riot you made a really fair and balanced champion" you see it occasionally but not often.

The boards represents the vocal minority, and you can only guess what everyone else thinks.

NiceTryViDec 22, 20161 votes

Yeah, no. That is not how that works. The ratio of people that like and dislike these champions are the same on and off the boards. People don't just come on here to make hate threads just like nobody comes on here to make love threads. It is a fairly stable population that is a representation of the community as a whole.

SkorchDec 22, 20161 votes

Im just gonna agree to disagree, that may be true in all posts other than gameplay, because if that was the case how come the gameplay boards is considered a joke to the rest of the boards

NiceTryViDec 22, 20161 votes

That's not a valid argument. Saying one group doesn't take another seriously doesn't make the other group wrong. The church made fun of scientists, and even persecuted them, for a very long time. Does this mean that until the scientists became mainstream, the earth was flat and was the center of the universe? Just because the rest of the boards isn't fond of gameplay doesn't mean that gameplay is not a representation of the community.

Angry MonsterDec 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

after ult nerf (although i do wish they nerfed scaling on it as well, but we'll have to see)

Have you seen a competent lee sin clear the jungle? Please enlighten me how a ULT nerf of 50 is going to slow down his presence in the jungle?

SkorchDec 22, 20161 votes

His presence is bad, but the problem is when he DOES show up he one shots you, and its 50 damage at first rank. Thats why i said let's see, Im not gonna doubt riot nerfs untill i see if lee is still a problem.

DunkinNoobsDec 21, 20162 votes

If the boards were representative of the community, Mordekaiser would have a 20% pickrate. He does not.

NiceTryViDec 21, 20161 votes

I don't think you have a concept of "representation". Malicious Metal is not the boards, and neither are you or me. All of us with our combined input are "the boards", so therefore the people who have the most similar opinions get those opinions to the top. So, since more people dislike Yas and Riven and vayne than like any of those champions, "the boards" dislikes those champions.

PrinceOfStormsDec 21, 20167 votes

I mean Azir was the source of a great many LCS big plays and was underpowered in solo queue, yet Riot removed half his kit (CDR -> AS on passive, knockup on E, W on towers, and lowered the damage on his W).

Lee should get the Azir treatment, which would mean he'd get the following nerfs. %missing health on his 2nd Q removed, ability to use Safeguard on non-champion units removed, energy maximum halved, kick's AD ratio halved

NoobTangerangDec 21, 20163 votes

I doubt it. The Rioter stated that they didn't want to nerf Lee too hard.

PrinceOfStormsDec 21, 20168 votes

The only nerfs that are too hard in the case of Lee Sin would be outright deleting him. Anything short of that is justified. That champion deserves to sit in the dumpster with champions like Aatrox for the next few seasons.

ModAcademy KaynDec 21, 20169 votes

And this is why we don't let Boards balance.

ZedexDec 21, 20162 votes

The boards are usually the exact opposite of an expert opinion.

NoobTangerangDec 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The boards are usually the exact opposite of an expert opinion.

Expert or no expert. This shit seems biased to me.

BlakiepugDec 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I mean Azir was the source of a great many LCS big plays and was underpowered in solo queue, yet Riot removed half his kit (CDR -> AS on passive, knockup on E, W on towers, and lowered the damage on his W).

Lee should get the Azir treatment, which would mean he'd get the following nerfs. %missing health on his 2nd Q removed, ability to use Safeguard on non-champion units removed, energy maximum halved, kick's AD ratio halved

Yeah, I really think it's unfair how certain champions get gutted for a particular reason and then when that reasoning applies to one of the "favorites" they get one patch of slight nerfs and still remain as dominant as ever whereas champions like Azir literally lose everything on their kit because it was "too overloaded." Honestly, Azir had no more power in his kit than Lee Sin or Yasuo and like you say, they took half of it away.

KetiDec 21, 20161 votes

Hello 25℅ winrate

LankPantsDec 22, 20161 votes

Good

Celeste BenalDec 21, 20161 votes

Azir's release kit, like many recent champions such as Kalista and Tahm Kench, was seriously overloaded. They had no choice but to gut Azir. It would have been fine if they had left his mobility and just nerfed his damage. But instead they did both. Now he sucks.

Notable successes imo include Jhin and reworked Poppy. All they needed were some tweaks. Their kits are simple and straight-forward. Easy to understand. They don't have 15 passives. They do what they are supposed to do. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Lee Sin's problem is that he is so flexible that he can petty much do anything. His skill floor is basement low and his skill ceiling is astronomical. In the hands of a practiced player he is god-like. In the hands of a scrub he is still viable because he can go full tank and still have all the shields and mobility in the world. Meanwhile, Braum still can't ward jump.

His biggest problem is that at his core he is a displacement / mobility champ with a massively over-loaded kit. He has all the advantages of an assassin (mobility+high burst) but none of the drawbacks (not squishy).

Lee could be instantly fixed if Riot would gut his damage and instead focus him on CC, mobility, and displacement abilities. Then he could do things like jump in, kick, stun, slide around, whatever, and then just swag-walk out like he does now. He would still be Lee Sin. But he wouldn't be friggin Kenshiro, Raoh, and Sagat all at the same time.

PrinceOfStormsDec 22, 20161 votes

Lee could be instantly fixed if Riot gutted his base health (reduce by 70), MS (reduce by 30), and AD (reduce by 15) he'd be fine, because he'd no longer be a stupidly strong early ganker. His early clear would be significantly nerfed and he'd be at much lower health after doing it. No longer would his early ganks be stupidly strong.

It would also significantly impact his mapwide mobility, though to be fair the fact that Lee has the highest base MS in the game at 355 is stupid.

AhristocatsDec 21, 20164 votes

riot can balance the game

riot doesn't want to balance the game balance means flashy plays here

SasogwaDec 21, 20164 votes

they don't even balance around competitive. They balance around the champs they want to see played with muh big plays. If they balanced around competitive seriously, maybe we'd see a diversity comparable to dota2 instead of always the same 20 or so champions every single game. And I'm sorry but I'd have more fun seeing Warwick /Garen or some other braindead champion being played over seeing the same game 100 times in a row with 1% variance depending on the teams playing it.

DJMason88Dec 21, 20162 votes

Diversity in Dota 2? Last time i played there was a pudge,riki,ursa and drow almost every single game.

AhristocatsDec 21, 20161 votes

are you talking about competition?

because except drow that has a global passive increasing the damage of ranged champions no one is picked in every game especially pudge and riki

DJMason88Dec 21, 20161 votes

Oh, didn't read everything your post said. I don't watch Dota 2's competitive scene, sorry.

Cloud273Dec 21, 20162 votes

I understand why you're frustrated, but you need to understand that he's not just Riot's favorite champion. Lee Sin was the highest played champion everywhere from gold on up last month. If they nerfed him how many players would get angry at Riot and maybe stop playing (this is kind of extreme but you never know)? My point is Riot gives the players what they want. And if people want to play Lee Sin why would it make sense (from a business perspective) to make them unhappy?

Surr20plzDec 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I understand why you're frustrated, but you need to understand that he's not just Riot's favorite champion. Lee Sin was the highest played champion everywhere from gold on up last month. If they nerfed him how many players would get angry at Riot and maybe stop playing (this is kind of extreme but you never know)? My point is Riot gives the players what they want. And if people want to play Lee Sin why would it make sense (from a business perspective) to make them unhappy?

Your logic is so fucking flawed from a balance perspective I'm not even going to make an analogy. If you can't see that I feel bad for you and any children you may have.

Cloud273Dec 21, 20164 votes

{quoted}

**Your logic is so fucking flawed **from a balance perspective I'm not even going to make an analogy. If you can't see that I feel bad for you and any children you may have.

And yours is so much better? You didn't even give an opinion. You just insult people when you don't like what you're reading.

100HorsePowerDec 21, 20164 votes

So its alright for the players to hold Riot hostage and ruin the game for everyone else? Corruption at its finest.

BambooWorldDec 22, 20161 votes

Those people are the customers, what's wrong with customers demanding shit?

100HorsePowerDec 22, 20161 votes

Because the Customer is not always right, the customer wants whatever is easiest and to give themselves the best position for easy successive wins. That is not healthy for the game balance. In short, the customer only cares about himself and not anyone else who is also trying to enjoy the product.

ModAcademy KaynDec 21, 20162 votes

He also confirmed, although it was obvious, all Riot cares about is their esports. LC$ BIG PLAY$

Now where does he say that?

TheOneTrueBrandDec 21, 201619 votes

I think he just meant the fact they KNOW lee is op but still dont want to nerf him "too hard" proves they are intentionally keeping him strong simply because he looks flashy in the lcs.

ModAcademy KaynDec 21, 20164 votes

I had a post written up about stuff, but I accidentally hit back-page, so I'll summarize it up real short.

Lee, despite Board QQ, is a rather mechanically balanced champion. It's when his numbers are strong when he becomes a problem. Because of this, Lee is actually a champ okay to keep "Meta/Not weak" year long, unlike someone like Sejuani. It's not keeping him strong for LCS, but more keeping him pretty damn playable in game regardless, as his kit does offer fair team play variation, individual counter-play, and expression of skill.

We, on the other hand, are not as coordinated as LCS, so we don't see/use the same strategy against Lee as they do, so we complain about Lee Sin more despite not knowing how to deal with him very well.

If ya want me to explain/expand on anything said above, I'd be happy to elaborate. I'd explain now, but it's late, and this is my second try writing this.

SkorchDec 21, 20161 votes

This is pretty much every board-hated champ.

The Yetii RiderDec 22, 20162 votes

The problem with Lee Sin being meta all year is that he's a strong invader. So Lee always being mets means champions that are vulnerable to invades are always a risky choice. How is that good for the game?

ModAcademy KaynDec 22, 20161 votes

There is normally a reason to why some champs are vulnerable to invades, outside of Lee Sin. All it encourages is for you to actually learn how to ward your jungle, a valuable skill none the less.

ZedexDec 21, 20162 votes

Flashy has nothing to do with it. He brings strong mechanics and a unique playstyle that people enjoy playing and watching, you cannot argue with that.

TheOneTrueBrandDec 21, 20162 votes

Nah tbe flashy plays has everything to do with it.

In the lcs, especially to people who dont play league, who looks more impressive when theyre played at their skill ceiling, Lee Sin, or someone like sejuani?

It looks cooler so people watch lcs and might play league just to play the flashy champs.

YCitizenSnipsYDec 21, 20165 votes

Ah so that explains why Maokai and Poppy dominate the top lane in pro play. Because of how flashy they are.

TheOneTrueBrandDec 21, 20164 votes

Yes but when they get nerfed theyre gonna get an actual nerf, they flat out said theyre not gonna nerf lee much just because he is popular in competetive play.

More than likely the nerf they give lee is gonna have a compensation buff, but if they nerf poppy or maokai Idoubt there will be any compensation buffs.

Nameless VoiceDec 21, 20162 votes

Am I the only one who feels like turning off the stream if I open up LCS and see Lee Sin there yet again?

AhristocatsDec 21, 20164 votes

"he adds a lot of competitive plays"

what the fuck does it mean in your mind? cause this means flashy plays for me

RexSaurDec 21, 20162 votes

Did anyone needed to confrim anything for you to notice this?

Like how lee sin has never been a bad pick since season 2? Or how they will never give him any sort of meaningful nerfs? It was pretty blatant.

48983507DEL1Dec 22, 20161 votes

Well, at least they're being blatantly honest. He DOES add a lot to competitive play, both in terms of cool plays and the "lee sin factor" of strategy. Just wish they would see that there's more champions who can make competitive interesting, and not play obvious bias towards lee.