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"We're so weak, buff AP itemization" - Mage circlejerks

z63XnLCMwX··5 votes·673 views

The top 15 win rate champions https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/platinum/by-winrate

Supports take three slots Tanky top takes two Tank jungler takes two Jarvan jungler takes one Assassin takes one ADC takes one Mages take FIVE

This is for plat+. Here we have mage mains circlejerking about how bad they are in the current meta yet numbers shows otherwise.

Twitch, the highest win rate ADC has an average of 5.8 deaths while every single mage in the top 15 win rate list has a lower death count that him with Anivia enjoying a 4.4 death per game.

If AP itemization were truly bad, mages would not occupy one third of the top 15 highest win rate list, or have less death compared to the "unkillable adc"

What mage mains are experiencing now is the feeling of being dominant so long to being less dominant. Mages are by no means weak. They are balanced in this meta. The only roles which has the right to complain about being weak are assassins and juggernauts.

I don't really buy into "Tanks will buy mr and invalidate mages" with CC and CDR being so accessible, a mage coordinating well with the support will make it so tanks won't reach them. Not to mention, the majority of tanks will lean towards building armor from the threat of ADC instead of heavy MR for the only AP mid lane.

Mages aren't meant to be the one role to counter all. Deal with it.

43 Comments

Mordepool8 votes

"We're so weak, buff AP itemization"

Said no mage ever

They want destinct actives and more defense and utility options.

Pull your head out of the sand and READ a thread occasionally. Holyshit

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

"We're so weak, buff AP itemization"

Said no mage ever

They want destinct actives and more defense and utility options.

Pull your head out of the sand and READ a thread occasionally. Holyshit

More defense and utility items for mages? Sounds like a buff to me. The circlejerking is strong here

UnboundHades5 votes

yes because wanting to have more options instead of just building the same items every game is circlejerking thanks for the insight wise one

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

yes because wanting to have more options instead of just building the same items every game is circlejerking thanks for the insight wise one

{quoted}

having some items be strong but still having more options is still better than building the same items on every single mage

This is invalid. You only have 5 slots for items boots excluded. All champions will have their core items with 1/2 situational items. Having more items doesn't mean every game you would have an entirely different build. People will find a meta, just like how they did with URF. Despite having 130+ champions to choose from they would pick the META URF champs. Mages don't want more items. They want more items that makes them stronger. If a new mage item that was weak came out they wouldn't build it for the sake of diversity.

Look at essence reaver. Just how many ADC build that item?

DrCyanide1 votes

Look at essence reaver. Just how many ADC build that item?

Look at Rapid Fire Cannon. Just how many ADC build that item?

Essence Reaver missed the mark by requiring Crits to give Mana back to AD champions who want to use Spells instead of autos. It doesn't fit what many Champions wanted or needed, which is why it's as unpopular as it is.

Yes, there will be some meta options with items, but AP itemization has been more diverse in the past. We had legit reasons to pick between Athenes and Morellonomicon (Tear and ROA have been outcasts for a while). We had reasons to pick Deathcap, Hourglass, or Deathfire Grasp as a second item. It wasn't tons, but it was sure better than what we have now.

PhDs Nuts1 votes

{quoted}

"We're so weak, buff AP itemization"

Said no mage ever

They want destinct actives and more defense and utility options.

Pull your head out of the sand and READ a thread occasionally. Holyshit

Mages have always had the most distinct item active in the game item 3157 . Gunblade is really strong. DFG was broken during its time. It wasn't until this season that tanks and supports finally got to play with interesting actives (tanks only had a slow for ~3 years), though Cho makes Stoneplate completely ridiculous.

GinoSoldier2 votes

Funny how i want both Zhonyas and Gunblade to either be reworked or deleted so we can have more /more flexible options.

Radiant Seraph2 votes

This. Also Rabadon's.

Radiant Seraph5 votes

Gunblade is not a mage item and never will. It's a hybrid item.

GinoSoldier1 votes

It need to not have an instant damage nuke, that's all. Buff the stats, nerf the costs, i don't care what they do with it, but no item (botrk included btw) should have an active that deals instant damage without possible counterplay but 'hope he uses it on someone else'.

Fairyfleur5 votes

The issue isn't AP itemization being weak, it's the fact that it all feels terrible to use, and that there are no options. Almost every mage builds the same exact thing.

z63XnLCMwX3 votes

{quoted}

The issue isn't AP itemization being weak, it's the fact that it all feels terrible to use, and that there are no options. Almost every mage builds the same exact thing.

That's itemization in general. Almost every ADC builds the same thing. Almost every tank support build the same thing, almost every enchanter support builds the same thing. That's not a mage only problem.

PhDs Nuts1 votes

{quoted}

That's itemization in general. Almost every ADC builds the same thing. Almost every tank support build the same thing, almost every enchanter support builds the same thing. That's not a mage only problem.

Pretty much this. I see people complaining about how ADCs have such varied itemization, but yet the complaints about ADCs are always about "abusing" the same 2-3 items.

UnboundHades1 votes

having some items be strong but still having more options is still better than building the same items on every single mage

Death by Glamour2 votes

Every class has a cookie cutter build... this isn't a mage only issue.

Fairyfleur2 votes

They have much less options than AD for a start.

Death by Glamour1 votes

I will agree with you on that. One thing I would like to see are items for those that would be considered ap bruiser diana/vlad/gragas ECT. Another would be more defensive options for ap users, why doesn't qss or seekers build into other things.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

They have much less options than AD for a start.

ADC options item 3153 item 3812 item 3026 item 3036 item 3072 item 3087 item 3085 item 3046 excluding essence reaver.

AP options item 3030 item 3027 item 3040 item 3089 item 3285 item 3157 item 3116 item 3151item 3102 excluding lich bane and void staff

Fairyfleur2 votes

GLP, Rylai's, Tear, and Rabadons are all either bad or extremely niche.

UnboundHades2 votes

the hextech line only works for a few champs tear is useless in this meta rabadons is a must because of how much flat ap got gutted but it still cost 4k gold and a shit build path ludens is a worse shiv zhonyas only saves you from dives rylais is in the same boat with hextech torment is only bought by a few mages item 3165 item 3135 item 3089 item 1001 that leaves 2 items up to someone to choose and a majority of mages need 1 of the others to function so that leaves 1 item. so please stop commenting when you dont know what you are talking about

Hammermancer2 votes

Wait I only see 3 mages

Anivia Malzahar Ziggs

who are all strong because of specific pieces of their kits and not really items

z63XnLCMwX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ebR5UbVB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-09-11T21:22:28.605+0000)

Wait I only see 3 mages

Anivia Malzahar Ziggs

who are all strong because of specific pieces of their kits and not really items

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/platinum/by-winrate TwistedFate and AurelionSol

Hammermancer1 votes

so my point still stands, all of these champions are picked on the grounds of a very specific gimmick

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ebR5UbVB,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-09-11T21:27:45.697+0000)

so my point still stands, all of these champions are picked on the grounds of a very specific gimmick

So you're implying champions like Twitch and Tristana aren't picked because of a specific gimmick?

Hammermancer1 votes

I'm implying that champions like Malzahar exist to hit R, and pretty much just that, these champions are strong because of one ability in their kit, not their kit as a whole, and not item interaction

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ebR5UbVB,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-11T21:37:56.877+0000)

I'm implying that champions like Malzahar exist to hit R, and pretty much just that, these champions are strong because of one ability in their kit, not their kit as a whole, and not item interaction

What's your excuse for Anivia and Ziggs and TwistedFate and AurelionSol . You know, the other four mages?

Jinzo Torrance2 votes

zzz

Apart that there are only three mages there, Malzahar, Anivia and Ziggs and not 5, you should look at pickrate and banrate too.

z63XnLCMwX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cinquino Show,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ebR5UbVB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-11T21:24:41.818+0000)

zzz

Apart that there are only three mages there, Malzahar, Anivia and Ziggs and not 5, you should look at pickrate and banrate too.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/platinum/by-winrate 5 mages in plat.

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

Looking at Plat and not Diamond because?

1.5% Playrate | 0.6% Banrate AurelionSol Doesn't count, that playrate indicates that he's only played by mains and nobody else finds him banworthy. Same for Annie Heimerdinger and Ziggs .

The only mage with a significant Playrate is Malzahar and some people are banning him too, meaning people find him strong.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cinquino Show,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ebR5UbVB,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-09-11T21:44:48.824+0000)

Looking at Plat and not Diamond because?

1.5% Playrate | 0.6% Banrate AurelionSol Doesn't count, that playrate indicates that he's only played by mains and nobody else finds him banworthy. Same for Annie Heimerdinger and Ziggs .

The only mage with a significant Playrate is Malzahar and some people are banning him too, meaning people find him strong.

Because it's plat+ meaning everything plat and higher. Larger player pool reduces the chance of outliers in data and plat is when people start to be good mechanically and game wise?

Death by Glamour1 votes

Ap is fine

Ad has been way to strong for a while.

Buffing mages will only add more problems to the game. Let's just NERF ad guys.

Penns1 votes

AP itemization =/= mage champs tho

there is nothing else to really play mid except galio who is still top tier, lucian and corki who are both god tier and assassins who.. xd

SwiftKitten881 votes

I'm just going to throw this out there, to show you how blatantly blinded you are

Twitch, the highest win rate ADC has an average of 5.8 deaths while every single mage in the top 15 win rate list has a lower death count that him with Anivia enjoying a 4.4 death per game.

Anivia has a no death passive...

everyone focuses the freaking ADC beause thier broken as fuck right now therefore they should have more deaths where as no one is going to give a damn about mages during a fight unless they somehow get fed.

a mage isnt going to kill anything but another mage... a support or an adc IF they can burst them down trough all the freaking damage reduction the adc gets.

ap arn't weak overall.. they are WEAK in COMPARISON to every other class in the game.

we have no OPTIONS of what to build. it donest mattter how many ad champs the enemy team has we can only build ONE AP + armor item in item 3157

every mage is FORCED to buy item 3165 because.

there is ZERO build variety. you can't go "oh i see my opponent is building this for "X" situation, lets me modify my build to counter that. you CANNOT modify your build. there ARE no choices that work..

i build the same 6 items in easily over about 90% of my Nidalee games... why? BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION!!!

if i play warwick.. i can choose beterrn like 8 different build paths and items based on thier team comp

when i play nidalee.. all i choose is what ORDER to get item 3157 item 3100 item 3102 based on who is fed or not and whether my last item is goign to be item 3135 or item 3089 and its normally item 3089 because item 3135 as no Ornn upgrade and no one bother building MR now anyways because of the state of AP

there is no CHOICE to go other items like i can with all the adc champs

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

I'm just going to throw this out there, to show you how blatantly blinded you are

ap arn't weak overall.. they are WEAK in COMPARISON to every other class in the game.

Meanwhile assassins. Rammus Ok.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile assassins. Rammus Ok.

assasins are only weak because they cannot do the role they are designed to do.. which is kill ADC's.. becuase the adc's are freaking broken right now

they cant kill tanks becuase they are not designed to (and thier OP)

so the only thing assassins can kill right now are supports and mages. and mages arn't really being picked much.

assasins themselves arn't that weak.. its just they cant do thier job (kill the enemy adc's) because.. the ADC's are flat out broken

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

assasins are only weak because they cannot do the role they are designed to do.. which is kill ADC's.. becuase the adc's are freaking broken right now

they cant kill tanks becuase they are not designed to (and thier OP)

so the only thing assassins can kill right now are supports and mages. and mages arn't really being picked much.

assasins themselves arn't that weak.. its just they cant do thier job (kill the enemy adc's) because.. the ADC's are flat out broken

But you just said mages are Weak in comparison to every other class. I'm just pointing out there's an ever weaker class which is assassins and arguably bruisers such as Gnar

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

But you just said mages are Weak in comparison to every other class. I'm just pointing out there's an ever weaker class which is assassins and arguably bruisers such as Gnar

... actaully no... AD assains are still better off than mages... because mages have the exact same issue with ADC and tanks being OP as they ALSO designed to burst down enemy ADC.. except AD assassins at least had AD itemization and can vary their builds to some degree which AP champs CAN'T. so that STILL leaves AD assassins better of than mages/ AP assassins

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

... actaully no... AD assains are still better off than mages... because mages have the exact same issue with ADC and tanks being OP as they ALSO designed to burst down enemy ADC.. except AD assassins at least had AD itemization and can vary their builds to some degree which AP champs CAN'T. so that STILL leaves AD assassins better of than mages/ AP assassins

Except mages can cast damage which does the same burst as an assassin from range while AD assassin has to risk going into melee ranged, being CC by the entire team and you still think AD assassin is better than mages.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

Ah yes because play rate of the champions mean nothing right? Besides for TwistedFate Malzahar, most mages on that list are one of the lowest played champions. Like for example AurelionSol who has practically no play rate, only his mains play them basically so of course his win rate would be a bit high.

Also as some people have said in here, the problem is more so on the build paths being terrible. Though personally, the AP items have been nerfed really hard as well.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ebR5UbVB,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-09-11T22:26:23.410+0000)

Ah yes because play rate of the champions mean nothing right? Besides for TwistedFate Malzahar, most mages on that list are one of the lowest played champions. Like for example AurelionSol who has practically no play rate, only his mains play them basically so of course his win rate would be a bit high.

Also as some people have said in here, the problem is more so on the build paths being terrible. Though personally, the AP items have been nerfed really hard as well.

I haven't counted yet, but I'm sure Mages have the most champion per role compared to all other roles.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

Yes most likely but then why are you trying to say that Mages having the most people in the top 15 as bad and that meaning they're not weak? If the amount of mages per mid lane was smaller then sure, but as you said that mages probably have the higher amount of champions so its only logical that they'd have a better chance of they're being more champions on the list.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ebR5UbVB,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-09-11T22:52:15.315+0000)

Yes most likely but then why are you trying to say that Mages having the most people in the top 15 as bad and that meaning they're not weak? If the amount of mages per mid lane was smaller then sure, but as you said that mages probably have the higher amount of champions so its only logical that they'd have a better chance of they're being more champions on the list.

True, they do have a larger chance. I never said mages were strong. Right now they are balanced, there's no need to change AP itemization to risk another 5 patches of mages becoming broken like how Riot break every item they add/change. People wanting new items without it either being OP or UP is a joke.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

The only thing I want for Mages is item 3089 to not be so expensive and actually become an item worth getting, and maybe item 3157 not giving laughable stats, or I'll settle with item 3191 not being a terrible rush into an AD match ups that doesn't sacrifice everything from the mage to potentially live 1 more auto attack from ADs. I'm not asking for extra stats on other items or more AP items (though more AP + armor items are kind of needed).

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