Make Azir's soldiers smaller, so they don't visually reach farther than they can attack.

GhostOfShrimpmas·Feb 24, 2015·19 votes·5,986 views

Since Azir's soldier attack range got nerfed, his soldiers spears actually extend beyond their attack range. It's confusing for Azir, when an enemy is literally standing inside the head of the spear and he can't attack them. And it's confusing for opponents, who now see a clear visual indication of a danger that they're not actually in.

If this range nerf is going to stick around, can the soldiers at least be scaled down in size, so they don't reach farther while at rest than they do lunging to attack?

21 Comments

RiotMeddlerFeb 24, 201518 votes

Agreed, implied range should match actual range.

We're working on some buffs to Azir at the moment, which will likely include giving him at least some range back on the W. After we've looked at where that range should be we'll then look at making the visuals match.

For anyone wondering about timing that's not going to be in the patch that goes out tomorrow (we're targeting the next patch after).

TengrichanFeb 24, 20152 votes

Oh boy.can't wait. If you do that than improve the soldiers' auto attack animation so they carry out the attack faster like you did with Katarina's auto attacks.

xLegendary TrollFeb 24, 20151 votes

I'm glad that his range is getting some love again. I was getting used to it, but it felt weird not being able to auto attack someone after using your Q on them because of the range nerf.

fwL7umeoQeFeb 24, 20151 votes

"Some" range back. The W nerf was the biggest problem with Azir. I could care less with what happens to his Q, I used it as a re-positioning tool if anything. In teamfights, Azir feels useless because of his insane lack of auto range. I end up just hitting people with puny lasers.

MoonshadeFeb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Agreed, implied range should match actual range.

We're working on some buffs to Azir at the moment, which will likely include giving him at least some range back on the W. After we've looked at where that range should be we'll then look at making the visuals match.

For anyone wondering about timing that's not going to be in the patch that goes out tomorrow (we're targeting the next patch after).

Give some more range to his soldiers and give his soldier placement range a buff so that the max range Azir can drop a soldier is equal to his base AA range (so the soldier AA radius is just on the edge of his standard AA radius, meaning he needs to be within AA range to drop a soldier onto someone's face but can then kite backwards with the soldier after)

GorillazNtheMystFeb 24, 20155 votes

This whole thing is a mess. Anyone with a brain should have looked at those nerfs on paper and realized they were too extreme and would have rendered him obsolete, or at least that they would destroy any possibility for him to be a "hypercarry" as you now describe him. His win rate was terrible so you buffed him back in the fall, but then that was apparently too good (even though he barely had a 50% win rate as a result) so you nerfed him to smithereens in the name of "balance," in a game where Ahri and Katarina (far less technically demanding champions) have sat comfortably at a 55% win rate for ages. And your whole argument for doing so - that Azir shouldn't be a lane bully and instead should be a late game hyper carry - is truly underwhelming, especially considering the huge nerf to his late game damage output. What about Cassiopeia, Jinx, and Vayne? Are you going to tell me that they're not abusive lane opponents either? I tried playing Azir against a Cassio yesterday (whom Azir is supposed to counter), and literally could make no counterplay to her because I could no longer out range, out maneuver, or out damage her at any stage of the game - but that's ok, because Insert obscure questionably logical reason here

Forgive me, but it's very frustrating to have paid for this guy at release and to then lose over and over again because of an overboard, barely thought out or tested nerf and bugs that you guys still haven't been able to fix for months. I am glad you'll be buffing him soon, but the entire history of Azir has caused me to sincerely question Riot's competence and ability to do anything right.

Silents429Feb 24, 20152 votes

Oh wow someone complaining about nerfs.

To a Riot member saying he was going to get buffed.

Jesus.

GorillazNtheMystFeb 25, 20151 votes

Yes, because it goes beyond the nerf. The fact is the champion has NEVER worked consistently on top of it. The two things Azir relies upon entirely for survival and relevance - his W and his ult - never work. In this patch, once again, his soldiers work unbelievably poorly, and his ult - a bloody wall - is just going through people again. I just feel that they maybe should have made sure he could actually function completely before they castrated him. It's unprofessional and irresponsible.

Silents429Feb 25, 20151 votes

Unless you program, I don't think you are in any position to judge programmers on whether they see bugs. The more complex the champions the more code and potential for bugs, and bugs will always get through.

And you were not complaining about that, you were bitching because they nerfed him in reply to a Riot member saying he will receive some buffs.

GorillazNtheMystFeb 25, 20151 votes

I believe it's an issue when you tell people you've fixed something over and over again over the course of six months when in fact you haven't, and then you alter the gameplay of Azir so dramatically that it breaks him entirely. There have been several new champion releases since Azir, some of them fairly complicated, but I bet that Kalista's ult never randomly fails to knockup, or that Gnars ult ever fails to stun. That's what it's like to play Azir - you are totally dependent on two skills that are incredibly unreliable.

And yes, I am raising this issue to a Riot member because I have legitimate frustration with the entire process and don't know who else to make it known to. I believe I also told him I was glad they were buffing him back, but that I was disappointed with Azir's continuing development. Whether they've done the right thing or not over the past few months, it at least to me doesn't seem like the team really knows what to do with Azir and all his problems, and I happen to feel that their solution to this - to basically tell us in the 5.3 patch notes, "he's broken still and we can't fix him, but we're going to shrek everything about him and give you AD stats that don't even help you as compensation," is not really a great choice befitting a company that is clearly trying to market its game these days as more fresh and accessible to all.

It doesn't matter if I'm a programmer or not, I'm still a consumer, and with that relationship comes a certain unwritten quality agreement that in this case frankly has not been met. I purchased a product that literally has never worked 100% since day one, only to watch him get neutered sort of recklessly. As a rational person I just disagree with the way that Riot went about the nerfs, opting to go ham instead of gradually adding nerfs over time so that their effects could be better experimented with. Instead, we got what was practically a rework (he plays entirely differently now) and watched his winrate plummet 10% for a week and counting.

Colgate GatorFeb 24, 20154 votes

It's funny because they have long ass spears but have the range of a knife :I

MoonshadeFeb 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Postal Badger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eZvxEKrF,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-02-24T15:59:56.224+0000)

It's funny because they have long ass spears but have the range of a knife :I

The spears still penetrate the range that they used to, so if u do get an AA off people the same distance from the solder in that line will still take damage same as in the old, the issue is now the soldiers are near sighted to an extreme degree so they can only AA people in their faces, but the spear stab still reaches all the way

Knight SoIaire Feb 24, 20152 votes

he will probably get the range back since his q allows him to get like one auto of them and then the just stand like scare crows

riot said they plan to buff him , well the patch is tommorow from what i saw

AriafluxFeb 24, 20151 votes

They are buffing him next cycle, not in tomorrow's patch I believe.

Or they could sneak in something, I don't know.

Knight SoIaire Feb 24, 20151 votes

I don't know.

well me neither knowing them i would even expect them to nerf him

AriafluxFeb 24, 20152 votes

I read they are buffing him though.

Found the comment:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/6AclnukN-azir-38-win-rate?comment=0008

Knight SoIaire Feb 24, 20152 votes

I read they are buffing him though.

well they said so, but what will happen? who knows.

TengrichanFeb 24, 20152 votes

It's confusing for Azir

no,it's not

GhostOfShrimpmasFeb 24, 20151 votes

Right, but we don't know how they're going to buff him, unless I missed a red post at some point. I assumed they wouldn't just undo their last nerf.

nUcLeAr KeTcHuPFeb 24, 20151 votes

As someone who mains Azir, he has big problems in the mid game where most mid lane carries scale.

Mid lane carries are essential for the early 10-25 minute vision/dragon/baron control. They enter fights with either the element of burst, or AOE because their lane is central to summoner's rift. If you look at most teams that surrender ~20 min and see the highest dmg dealt to champs; it is almost always the mid lane using their level advantage and high mid game damage to reach the top of the charts. Azir lacks both of those elements (early on).

All of this being said, Azir's W attack range is not the problem, in fact this offers counter play to what I think is a broken champion. Nashors lets you land 2 soldier attacks once they are slowed by the Q, even after the range nerf. (over a 1.0 ap ratio if you count x2 soldier attacks)

The problem is Azir's W placement range. IT IS SHORTER THAN HIS AUTO ATTACK! In order to place a soldier on top of an enemy with his W, Azir has to be almost melee range. Most of Azir's damage is placing a soldier directly on top of an enemey, attacking, and repositioning with Q when they run away, and attack them some more.

I find myself building Rylais/Abyssal most games, just so I can get in range to Actually spawn a soldier on an enemy.

So yes Buff to Azir's W placement, not the attack range, as that would make him broken just like before the nerfs. I was hitting 50-70k Dmg dealt to champs with the old range. Soldier auto attacks are definitely Azir's main source of damage. Compensating for low soldier attack range, buff his Q base damage, or give his ultimate a higher base damage so he can effectively Burst like a real mid laner should.

Please, please, please do not touch Azir's Ap ratios. They are balanced

Lets reiterate,

Buff Azir's W Placement range Not Soldier auto attack range (it needed the nerf)

Buff any base damage just with one of his skills so he can have an effective mid game

Fix implied range!

Fix soldier spawning inside of walls!