Whelp, Ahri got gutted

Raxistaicho·Feb 2, 2015·17 votes·1,538 views

Orb of Deception (Q) mana cost increased to 60/70/80/90/100 from 55/60/65/70/75 Fox Fire (W) damage decreased to 40/65/90/115/140 from 50/80/110/140/170 Fox Fire (W) cooldown lowered to 8/7/6/5/4 from 9/8/7/6/5 Fox Fire (W) range lowered to 600 from 750

I thought you were going to give her compensation buffs, Rito? The movespeed on her Q (which she won't be able to use nearly as often now!) does NOT make up for losing both dfg and her charm amp!

I'd rather lose the movespeed buff than make Ahri WEAKER than she was before losing dfg!

34 Comments

Drunk RummateFeb 2, 20159 votes

This is how I imagine the last month of discussion on Ahri went down:

Crazy Designer A: "Lets remove DFG!"

Conservative Designer B: "But Ahri..."

Crazy Designer A: "Good point. Lets completely restructure her into a mage because screw that assassin build"

Conservative Designer B: "That's.... pretty sudden. Are you sure?"

Crazy Designer A: "Yeah, it'll work great! We'll give her movespeed and buff up her damage!"

Conservative Designer B: "Looks like you overtuned Ahri. Maybe we should have left her the same and tweaked her slightly based on performance instead."

Crazy Designer A:"NOPE. Into the trash heap she goes, we can't have any nonsense like this floating around!"

Conservative Designer B: "But what about the people who liked her before? You know, when she had a balanced winrate?"

Crazy Designer A: "They don't matter. Get back to work on that new champion, and make sure it has at least 3 knockups."

JustMyBassCannonFeb 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

This is how I imagine the last month of discussion on Ahri went down

No, that's how literally every whining poster in the Boards imagines Riot does anything.

Drunk RummateFeb 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

No, that's how literally every whining poster in the Boards imagines Riot does anything.

Well if everyone feels that way then perhaps they aren't doing a very good job of communicating their changes to us.

JustMyBassCannonFeb 2, 20152 votes

Every whining poster.

That's not "everyone," that just regards (a) people on the Boards (b) whining about Riot's changes.

You know, the people who don't wait two days--sometimes don't even wait for tentative PBE changes to go live--before they start giving Riot shit for almost literally anything they do. It doesn't matter if the change is actually doing exactly what they planned to do, because something changes, and with change comes whining.

I wouldn't give anyone shit for complaining if they could actually make a halfway-decent and fully coherent post that actually details why they think what was done was a mistake. Nope, we get a four-word title, un-linked PBE notes, which are, again, tentative changes, and complaints based on the OP's personal bias.

Then again, that's still more than the average, hundreds-of-upvotes-on-a-controversial-title-regarding-Lee-Sin-or-Zed thread >.>

ZmuecatFeb 2, 20158 votes

Does anyone know what gutting is?

Seriously, just look at the word. If your first thought is "Well, you make a small cut on the arm and..." maybe you shouldn't be allowed to use the word.

By no means is this a small cut, but her innards aren't spilling onto the damned floor.

RaxistaichoFeb 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Does anyone know what gutting is?

Seriously, just look at the word. If your first thought is "Well, you make a small cut on the arm and..." maybe you shouldn't be allowed to use the word.

By no means is this a small cut, but her innards aren't spilling onto the damned floor.

She'll be weaker than she was in 5.1 and with no charm or dfg. How's that NOT gutting?

Tis a nice dayFeb 2, 20153 votes

Winrate gone from 51% to 57%. Must buff more.

ZmuecatFeb 2, 20157 votes

Remember how Olaf and Eve were treated?

That's gutting.

This, while stupid and I don't really understand why, is not gutting.

Linna ExcelFeb 2, 20151 votes

I'm inclined to agree. This'll force the people wanting freelo back into someone else who's OP, but her mains probably won't feel it as much as long as they rush mana.

SmokinSickStyleFeb 2, 20152 votes

If it's a buff it's OP if a nerf it's Gut\trash tier\unviable.

Okay...

RaxistaichoFeb 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

If it's a buff it's OP if a nerf it's Gut\trash tier\unviable.

Okay...

No seriously, look at the numbers. Her W is now worse in nearly every way than it was in 5.1, her Charm is worse overall without the damage amp, she hasn't got dfg anymore and now her Q will be too expensive to really get any use out of the movement speed.

Starcall CaseyFeb 2, 20152 votes

Are you stupid? They buffed everything about ahri, the only real nerf was the removal of her E dfg effect.

Here's from the patch notes itself: BASE DAMAGE PER FOX-FIRE 40/65/90/115/140 magic damage ⇒ 50/80/110/140/170 magic damage (they buffed it's damage.)

CHARM DAMAGE 60/90/120/150/180 magic damage ⇒ 60/95/130/165/200 magic damage (buffed damage again.)

Her ult and W got bugged fixed and Q not gives movement speed to get away better even without ult.

Everything about the new ahri got buffed and that's why her win rate went up from 50% to 58% after the patch. that is why people can still one shot their enemies with only W and ult, or Q and W.

Please think about what you are saying before making a post with a ton of miss information.

Meep ManFeb 2, 20152 votes

Note to Riot, make the Q mana cost nerf less extreme. More like 70/75/80/85/90 from 60/70/80/90/100. This will hit where it should while make it less extreme later on. Next, have a mid-way point for her W. More in the line of 45/70/95/120/145. The rest is fine.

LlaniteFeb 2, 20152 votes

Win rate is now 57%, an 8% increase. Popularity from 10% to 22%.

Seem like everyone but you is doing fine.

Cenobite AzazielFeb 2, 20152 votes

Nice. Now she actually has to manage mana instead of spamming Q and clearing a wave with doran ring. Kass is the one gutted now.

StephenizgodFeb 2, 20152 votes

Hmm has anyone fought against her? She is still strong and there is like no catching her now. She just Q's and either chases or runs away and there is not much you can do about it tbh. The only issue with her is she does a little less damage without her amp damage and DFG so she has to use a few more spells and mana regen is shit. If you are good at mana management and you get blue then she is a lot better in my opinion, very fast and mobile with extremely safe trades and escapes from ganks. Doesnt even need to ult to escape a gank, just Q's and books it out of there.

Malix FarwinFeb 2, 20152 votes

What had happened was that she was doing better then zed

Married to AhriFeb 2, 20151 votes

The only one problem on the "new" Ahri is the ms buff from her Q...

Why Riot chaning her W and changing the manacost from Q so ridiculous high...

If Riot will goes this way please lower the manacost from here Q and E(85 Mana). I don't like to spam manaitems like Athenes, tear etc.

OrdersFeb 2, 20151 votes

Changes to champions seem like they are either too good of a buff or too bad of a nerf. (I'm referring to the reactions on these forums)

Prime example is Kassadin.

His ban rate rose substantially in a couple of days and now Riot is nerfing his base damages again on PBE. But soon Kassadin will eventually become banworthy regardless because it's Kassadin.

Mirage SeraphFeb 2, 20151 votes

I... Really don't see this being an over nerf.

Yeah, the damage was reverted on fox fires, but they're keeping the utility change. The range nerf? CD lowered kind of makes up for it but yeah, it's definitely a nerf overall, but this alone won't kill Ahri at all, it's still a strong skill.

Q mana increase? That's the only thing I'm skeptical about. 100 Mana is a lot. Hopefully that's tweaked a bit if necessary, but considering I typically build double/triple Doran's Ring on her it shouldn't hurt her early too hard.

RaxistaichoFeb 2, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mirage Seraph,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePd09IE3,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-02-02T21:31:06.583+0000)

I... Really don't see this being an over nerf.

Yeah, the damage was reverted on fox fires, but they're keeping the utility change. The range nerf? CD lowered kind of makes up for it but yeah, it's definitely a nerf overall, but this alone won't kill Ahri at all, it's still a strong skill.

Q mana increase? That's the only thing I'm skeptical about. 100 Mana is a lot. Hopefully that's tweaked a bit if necessary, but considering I typically build double/triple Doran's Ring on her it shouldn't hurt her early too hard.

Overall she's 5.1 Ahri but somewhat weaker, and 5.1 Ahri was already "meh" compared to other mid lanes.

AuryielFeb 2, 20151 votes

Dat mana cost tho

Linna ExcelFeb 2, 20151 votes

My take is she is going to want to rush morello's even if she wasn't before. So this is more of a punishment to people who didn't rush mana. After the nerfs take effect you either rush morello's or you rush athene's. However that's putting her back into the spot we had before the season started in that everyone was rushing mana items.

So while I'm trying to get mana to keep casting spells on ahri my opponent with katarina, akali, zed, or anyone else without mana will be getting more damage. Thus I'm going to be forced into a farm lane more and more because of this.

I really think if riot stays this course, we are going to be having a farm meta return. Not for this one nerf, but with this and the jungle changes, and the dragon changes (too risky to die early and lose a dragon because of it), and it seems like this season their answers to balance issues feels like they are pushing everyone further and further into farming.

junglerboy16Feb 2, 20151 votes

Predictable.

SammystormFeb 2, 20151 votes

she will be fine after these nerfs.

Penguin EclipseFeb 2, 20151 votes

She will probably still be better off than Syndra.

MetalrichdogFeb 2, 20151 votes

To be honest, I don't think this is really called for. What they should do in my opinion is buff up the other mid laners that were destroyed after the removal of DFG. Simply destroying one champion doesn't solve for the whole lot/

HexTechBomberFeb 2, 20151 votes

(Warning: PBE Content is tentative and iterative - what you see may not reflect what eventually gets pushed to live servers! Manage your expectations accordingly. )

Some people don't read this part on the PBE notes...

DanofDemaciaFeb 3, 20151 votes

They already decided they are gonna Nerf her so she's obvi gonna get a Nerf and its gonna be along the lines.

GunpointFeb 2, 20151 votes

Q - Orb of Deception

AERODYNAMIC TAILS : Ahri now gains a massive movement speed boost while her orb is traveling that rapidly decays over time

W - Fox-Fire

FANTASTIC FOX-FIRE : Fox-Fire's targeting system has been improved and will now attempt to acquire a new target if the original target is going to die from other Fox-Fires

YOU'RE WELCOME LICH BANE AHRI : Casting Fox-Fire no longer interferes with Ahri's basic attack animation

BASE DAMAGE PER FOX-FIRE : 40/65/90/115/140 magic damage ⇒ 50/80/110/140/170 magic damage

JUST SLIGHTLY : Slightly reduced the time between spell cast and the missile firing

DIDN'T HAPPEN ALL THE TIME : Fixed a rare bug where Ahri's third Fox-Fire wouldn't deal damage while her passive was active

E - Charm

DON'T HURT THE ONES YOU LOVE : Charmed targets no longer take +20% damage

DAMAGE : 60/90/120/150/180 magic damage ⇒ 60/95/130/165/200 magic damage

RATIO : 0.35 ability power >> 0.5 ability power

R - Spirit Rush

QUIT HEADBUTTING THE WALL AHRI : Spirit Rush is now more forgiving when dashing through or over terrain

Okay, so looking at this, and the nerfs that they plan to give her the next patch, she's still in a good position, all they did was revert an uneeded buff on Foxfire's damages and nerfed the range. The mana cost on her Orb of Deception is still negligable and now with it's extra utility it makes sense. Her W dealt 510 base damage at max rank to a single target. Those were very high base damages, now it's 420, which is much more reasonable. She still has the buffed AP ratio AND increased base damage on her charm. Also all the other tweaks that helped her like the changes on her foxfire animation, targeting system, and her spirit rush.

Rock MDFeb 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Q - Orb of Deception

AERODYNAMIC TAILS : Ahri now gains a massive movement speed boost while her orb is traveling that rapidly decays over time

W - Fox-Fire

FANTASTIC FOX-FIRE : Fox-Fire's targeting system has been improved and will now attempt to acquire a new target if the original target is going to die from other Fox-Fires

YOU'RE WELCOME LICH BANE AHRI : Casting Fox-Fire no longer interferes with Ahri's basic attack animation

BASE DAMAGE PER FOX-FIRE : 40/65/90/115/140 magic damage ⇒ 50/80/110/140/170 magic damage

JUST SLIGHTLY : Slightly reduced the time between spell cast and the missile firing

DIDN'T HAPPEN ALL THE TIME : Fixed a rare bug where Ahri's third Fox-Fire wouldn't deal damage while her passive was active

E - Charm

DON'T HURT THE ONES YOU LOVE : Charmed targets no longer take +20% damage

DAMAGE : 60/90/120/150/180 magic damage ⇒ 60/95/130/165/200 magic damage

RATIO : 0.35 ability power >> 0.5 ability power

R - Spirit Rush

QUIT HEADBUTTING THE WALL AHRI : Spirit Rush is now more forgiving when dashing through or over terrain

Okay, so looking at this, and the nerfs that they plan to give her the next patch, she's still in a good position, all they did was revert an uneeded buff on Foxfire's damages and nerfed the range. The mana cost on her Orb of Deception is still negligable and now with it's extra utility it makes sense. Her W dealt 510 base damage at max rank to a single target. Those were very high base damages, now it's 420, which is much more reasonable. She still has the buffed AP ratio AND increased base damage on her charm. Also all the other tweaks that helped her like the changes on her foxfire animation, targeting system, and her spirit rush.

What? Ahri's W deals 30% of the damage per extra Foxfire. Her single-target with it is 272 base damage, not 510.

PyrokineticmageFeb 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Q - Orb of Deception

AERODYNAMIC TAILS : Ahri now gains a massive movement speed boost while her orb is traveling that rapidly decays over time

W - Fox-Fire

FANTASTIC FOX-FIRE : Fox-Fire's targeting system has been improved and will now attempt to acquire a new target if the original target is going to die from other Fox-Fires

YOU'RE WELCOME LICH BANE AHRI : Casting Fox-Fire no longer interferes with Ahri's basic attack animation

BASE DAMAGE PER FOX-FIRE : 40/65/90/115/140 magic damage ⇒ 50/80/110/140/170 magic damage

JUST SLIGHTLY : Slightly reduced the time between spell cast and the missile firing

DIDN'T HAPPEN ALL THE TIME : Fixed a rare bug where Ahri's third Fox-Fire wouldn't deal damage while her passive was active

E - Charm

DON'T HURT THE ONES YOU LOVE : Charmed targets no longer take +20% damage

DAMAGE : 60/90/120/150/180 magic damage ⇒ 60/95/130/165/200 magic damage

RATIO : 0.35 ability power >> 0.5 ability power

R - Spirit Rush

QUIT HEADBUTTING THE WALL AHRI : Spirit Rush is now more forgiving when dashing through or over terrain

Okay, so looking at this, and the nerfs that they plan to give her the next patch, she's still in a good position, all they did was revert an uneeded buff on Foxfire's damages and nerfed the range. The mana cost on her Orb of Deception is still negligable and now with it's extra utility it makes sense. Her W dealt 510 base damage at max rank to a single target. Those were very high base damages, now it's 420, which is much more reasonable. She still has the buffed AP ratio AND increased base damage on her charm. Also all the other tweaks that helped her like the changes on her foxfire animation, targeting system, and her spirit rush.

You do realize that Fox Fire does less damage if hitting same target? At max rank it's 272 max damage on single target. That is if all 3 hits the same guy.

ZantumallFeb 2, 20151 votes

You do see that they're reducing the cooldown on W by a full second at all ranks, right? That's functionally a 20% increase in total Foxfire damage at max rank, and 20% of 140 is 168 (only 2 damage less than the live value). This means that with literally ANY AP built, her overall damage output is going up. She'll need to adjust her build path to make sure she gets enough mana, but calling her "gutted" is ridiculous.

CindikleFeb 2, 20151 votes

Her W should of gotten the speed boost not her Q.

Her Q can waveclear, poke, MS boost, damage, heal(with passive, more than any other skill).

It's just too loaded. Nerfing her damage is not the answer since she does fall off late game. Make her cast W for the MS boost. She just gets far too much out of her Q. J4 has the same problem right now. His Q is loaded with almost everything for him.