Ashe's Q needs a stacking mechanic

TehNACHO··50 votes·3,431 views

Or drastically decreased mana cost when attacking already slowed targets.

Currently, Ashe's Frost Shot will consume 8 mana per attack, meaning that the higher your Attack Speed is, the more mana you burn. On top of this however, it doesn't have any form of a stacking mechanic. What this essentially means is that, as your Attack Speed rises, you are paying more mana for the exact same effects.

I realize from a balance perspective it probably doesn't make too much of a difference, but I still think that it's just plain odd and clunky. Pay more and gaining no benefits for it just because I'm getting more Attack Speed, a stat I'm certain to build as an ADC? Ehh...

EDIT: So the second paragraph apparently didn't do a good job explaining what I'm trying to say.

I just thought it was a weird gimmick Ashe has to put up with. Hence why I said:

I realize from a balance perspective it probably doesn't make too much of a difference

That in mind, I don't need the advice to turn Ashe's Q off between Q proc'ing autos. I just thought it was something funny to point out. ('- 3 -)

43 Comments

Shynkle14 votes

So hit them once, turn it off, then turn it back on when the slow wears off.

The Drewprint6 votes

Ashe 101.

Darth Valer11 votes

The idea is to toggle Q on and off between autoattacks so that you actually get to spend less mana when your AS increases.

Slaaneshine9 votes

So much focus for such a simple thing. I love all the old champions.

Passionlip2 votes

They feel really interesting to play, ain't they? :D

Passionlip6 votes

I've seen one day a post about making the Q a tool for charging ashe passive. Saying it in a more simple way, every hit with the Q active would charge Focus of a tot (was something on a 5/6/7/8/9/10 progression i think) I still think that's really interesting \o
It would add a little more depth for her Q in a straight fight and make her passive a lot more interactive.

aaronconlin5 votes

That's why I like building Ashe differently from most other ADC champions item 3006 item 3042 item 3508 item 3087 item 3031 item 3035 No mana problems, essence reaver helps with keeping both her Q and Manamune toggled for slows and extra damage

j j1 votes

That build isn't practical if you need to build situational items. (defenses mainly) It works when your frontline is good and when you are good at positioning and or kiting assassins but that is not always easy on an immobile adc.

aaronconlin1 votes

You could always switch something out for item 3102

Hyrum Graff1 votes

What, though? item 3031 item 3087 item 3035 are necessary, and item 3042 item 3508 have great synnergy, so it's kinda weird to build one but not the other.

So you're left with swapping out boots, on ashe.

Drukyul1 votes

{quoted}

That's why I like building Ashe differently from most other ADC champions item 3006 item 3042 item 3508 item 3087 item 3031 item 3035 No mana problems, essence reaver helps with keeping both her Q and Manamune toggled for slows and extra damage

suggestion: with that much mana in your build I'd go for a bit more CDR for Volley spam

Vesarixx2 votes

Just play Legolas Varus in that case, item 3508 item 3035 item 3158 item 3142 item 3072 item 3139

Vesarixx1 votes

I prefer item 3031 item 3046 item 3087 item 3035 item 3252 plus a situational item. 75% crit chance, lots of move speed and great scaling from that high AS base.

NuckaChucka4 votes

If you can't get the hang of toggling the Q there is this new item that rewards you mana when you hit an auto attack. item 3508

Rhax2 votes

Q needs a rework entirely. It would make more sense if Ashe's passive was a reduced, stacking, automatic slow (non-damaging Gangplank passive), while Q was something more power-level relevant. Volley could apply a max stack of the passive slow. No one is going to miss the junk auto-crit that's gimped by a full build.

Q could be anything that thematically adds minor-mobility or deters mobility. Could be a ground-laid slow, an ice wall, a line skill-shot, w/e. Ashe needs a kit upgrade.

NorthernDruid2 votes

Make her current Q her passive and let her Q be an empowered AA with a root attached to it.

And then let you proc Q with W.

maikokk1 votes

lol OP much?

NorthernDruid1 votes

Not if the scaling on the Q is low and the root is short enough.

Not saying it would be a good kit though.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

I would miss her passive.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

But since you've got more attack speed, you're putting out slows faster, so yea, same effect but better with attack speed.

Blainezy1 votes

I think it would be nice if after 3 or so Q hits you stun the opponent. Obviously, this would require a higher mana cost though, as a total of 24 mana for a stun would be OP. Of course, late game they would be dead after 3 hits anyway, but it would make her early/mid game a bit stronger.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I'd like to see something on some champion along the lines of "every third attack on an enemy snares it for 0.5/.75/1 sec." I think an immobile champion like Ashe would really enjoy that.

Windfallen1 votes

Nautilus

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Not exactly. "Every third" would actually reward you for building AS, while Naut has a static cooldown unrelated to the number or speed of attacks.

Still, I do like Naut's passive. It's very good.

Windfallen1 votes

Well, I know, but I thought I might point in the direction of Naut. I don't own him and when I saw his passive during one of his free weeks I never forgot it!

It's very smart to wait for the right moment to start Auto attacking (Don't waste it while the enemy is already rooted/stunned/knocked up) I presume.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Not really, because it's timed per enemy. So if you hit 3 different enemies in a row, it will proc on each one. So you basically always use it as an opening shot, and hopefully if the enemy is still in range after several seconds, you MIGHT be able to proc it again.

aperson12 votes

Braum

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Yes, but that's on the support and applies to ally's hits. I think for a kiting ADC, a self-triggered temporary snare would be more useful. Plus, since it's a snare not a stun, it's not as powerful and thus doesn't need to be time-gated. Also, wouldn't it be neat to have an ADC who meshes really well with Braum?

darkfighter1191 votes

Vayne

Juggernaut Jesus1 votes

You can now jump ala-Kalista passive when you volley.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Maybe for every like, 3 auto attacks the slow increases up to 3 times. 1st auto attack-15% slow, 4th auto attack-35% slow, 7th auto attack-65% slow. Maybe even up to 4 stacks with 10 auto attacks being like the target is snared for 1.5 seconds.

Just an idea, anyways this thread is good because it brings attention to a champion not really focused on. Ashe is extremely good because of her W, R, and passive (which falls off late game however) but her Q and E are somewhat useless. The E is useful but becomes useless in my opinion because of it's super long cooldown. The gold generation is kinda nice though, if you farm hard with Ashe you'll outscale anyone else.

wssup12301 votes

then with runaans u can snare 3 people at once

Malicious Fury1 votes

item 3004 makes mana a non-issue with Ashe.

Injustice4All1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Fury,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eOEbuA2E,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-02-23T05:34:19.841+0000)

item 3004 makes mana a non-issue with Ashe.

The problem I find with that item on Ashe is her high early game cooldowns make stacking it up a pain.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Doesn't it stack on AA?

Mathbalnase1 votes

Component, item 3070 , does not. Someone who can stack item 3070 effectively will stack item 3004 faster than someone who relies more on AAs.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Isn't it something like, item 3070 stacks on spell cast or mana expenditure? Or did they make an exception for ashe?

I play Ashe item 3031 item 3087 item 3035 item 3078 item 3172 item 3142 instead, so I wouldn't know.

Raptamei1 votes

She just needs a dash of some sort like every viable adc.

Stirnae1 votes

ashe needs a rework mainly due to her passive but her q is fine

VDc0zCqe0w1 votes

you are supposed to turn off-and-on the Q while you auto, it's not difficult and it adds depth to Ashe's gameplay

she still needs buffs tho, can't be denied

Hyrum Graff1 votes

I like Q toggling. It's really fun micro.

IronChefBoyardee1 votes

How about: "When Frost Shot is active, Ashe can attack while moving and apply a slow to the target." Ashe can strafe the battlefield from decent range slowing targets and volley into the fight every few seconds. New players can learn to use the attack move command with it

Gorzke1 votes

I'd see something like:

"Each subsequent auto-attack on a frozen champion increases the slow by 6/7/8/9/10%, up to a maximun of 60/70/80/90/99% "

She would need a lot of Attack Speed to reach the maximun, but would make her be able to kit effectively at late game.

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