Increase Pyke Q Cooldown

okamiyasha95·Sep 4, 2018·9 votes·2,687 views

Can we increase Pyke's Q CD. It's bad enough his dash cd is pretty short for it's uses. As a Thresh main, I find it quite unfair for Pyke's hook to be up as faster than mine when his Q has just as much kill potential as a Blitz hook yet he has the best scaling on his Q cd upon leveling it up. Here it is I gotta spend all my laning phase gold plus some on getting 45 cdr just to get my Q down to like 6.6 CD and Pyke can get his Q down to like 7.2 with only a support item. He has way more mobility than me and he has a Darius ult finisher that gives his team gold. As a champ who's fairly immobile, I think it's unfair for Pyke's Q CD to be lower than mine or any other hook-champ that has little to no mobility. At all ranks.

5 Comments

IllabetheSep 4, 20187 votes

Let's see:

Blitz Q: 925 Range. Pyke Q Range: 400-1100

Followup:

Blitz: Pulls the full 925 range, over terrain, to melee distance every time. Pyke: Pulls exactly 550 range, which can leave a target in front at an escapeable distance, or behind, or within melee range (for the sake of support lane, it's safe to say he doesn't get close enough or time enough to pull to put targets at melee range or behind him often.

Next skill Followup:

Blitz: a 200% Sheen Knockup that almost 100% ensures a kill. Pyke: either none, or an E that risks missing, possibly stunning, that takes away his escape.

Vs Thresh

Thresh has the unique ability to pull himself to a target, and his entire kit does significant damage, especially his first auto attack. Can actually solo kill as a tank in 1-2 seconds. He can use his pull to get across terrain vs monsters.

Pyke actually has to dance around for 7-8 seconds and hope the opponent's kit is on cooldown.

Thresh doesn't have an actual windup. He has a tell, but it's not a long tell, and his actual Q cc is pretty long
Thresh can actually tank. He can build HP, has a barrier, and can pull someone ELSE out of harm with lantern. Pyke can't save people like that.
Thresh Range is exactly the same as Pyke's MAXIMUM range.

OH.

Here's a really important one:

Thresh throws out his scythe in the target direction and forms a tether with the first enemy hit, dealing Ability power magic damage and Stun icon stunning them for 1.5 seconds. Hitting an enemy reduces Death Sentence's Cooldown by 3 seconds.

In other words..... if you HIT, Tier 5 Thresh Q vs Pyke Q:

Pyke: 4.8 seconds. Thresh: 4.2 Seconds.

If you MISS, Pyke 4.8 seconds Thresh: 7.2 seconds.

So if you HIT, Thresh's actually has a lower cooldown.

Also, Thresh's Q comes with a built in 1.5 second stun, so that means it's effective 1.5 seconds per 4.2 seconds..... That's something Pyke absolutely doesn't have.

P.S. Pyke also has that windup on his, so Pyke's 4.8 Second cooldown translates into about 5.8 seconds of inaction, so there's that too.

okamiyasha95Sep 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Let's see:

Blitz Q: 925 Range. Pyke Q Range: 400-1100

Followup:

Blitz: Pulls the full 925 range, over terrain, to melee distance every time. Pyke: Pulls exactly 550 range, which can leave a target in front at an escapeable distance, or behind, or within melee range (for the sake of support lane, it's safe to say he doesn't get close enough or time enough to pull to put targets at melee range or behind him often.

Next skill Followup:

Blitz: a 200% Sheen Knockup that almost 100% ensures a kill. Pyke: either none, or an E that risks missing, possibly stunning, that takes away his escape.

Vs Thresh

Thresh has the unique ability to pull himself to a target, and his entire kit does significant damage, especially his first auto attack. Can actually solo kill as a tank in 1-2 seconds. He can use his pull to get across terrain vs monsters.

Pyke actually has to dance around for 7-8 seconds and hope the opponent's kit is on cooldown.

Thresh doesn't have an actual windup. He has a tell, but it's not a long tell, and his actual Q cc is pretty long

Thresh can actually tank. He can build HP, has a barrier, and can pull someone ELSE out of harm with lantern. Pyke can't save people like that.

Thresh Range is exactly the same as Pyke's MAXIMUM range.

OH.

Here's a really important one:

Thresh throws out his scythe in the target direction and forms a tether with the first enemy hit, dealing Ability power magic damage and Stun icon stunning them for 1.5 seconds. Hitting an enemy reduces Death Sentence's Cooldown by 3 seconds.

In other words..... if you HIT, Tier 5 Thresh Q vs Pyke Q:

Pyke: 4.8 seconds. Thresh: 4.2 Seconds.

If you MISS, Pyke 4.8 seconds Thresh: 7.2 seconds.

So if you HIT, Thresh's actually has a lower cooldown.

Also, Thresh's Q comes with a built in 1.5 second stun, so that means it's effective 1.5 seconds per 4.2 seconds..... That's something Pyke absolutely doesn't have.

P.S. Pyke also has that windup on his, so Pyke's 4.8 Second cooldown translates into about 5.8 seconds of inaction, so there's that too.

That's a lot of details for no reason. First, I never said his Q went further than anyone's. His kill potential on his Q is still close to or as good as Blitz's hook and Thresh's Q. We all know that anything targetable in between a champ's hook will interrupt it. EVERY CHAMP HAS TO DANCE AROUND LOOKING AND WAITING FOR THE RIGHT MOMENT TO LAND A SUCCESSFUL Q.

Pyke can dash over walls.
Pyke can regenerate his health.
Pyke can stealth and dash setting up for an ez Q.
Yes Thresh can reactivate his Q to go the enemy, but Pyke can pull enemies a lot closer to his teammates and pull over the wall.
Pyke's Q slows his enemies too.
Missing his Q can refund some of his mana.
You forgot to mention that when Thresh hooks a target, he has to fully commit. Otherwise, there won't be a high output of damage from -him or his team. -When Pyke lands a Q, he doesn't have to commit and he still is able to allow his teammates to do a considerable amount of damage if not be able to kill them.
You forgot to add the fact that during Thresh's 1.5 second stun, he is unable to attack.
You also forgot to add in the fact that mid and late game, Pyke can not only 1 v 1 Thresh but he can also do way more damage to the enemy team than Thresh and still have abilities to set up for ez kills. I know that Thresh's Q refunds 3 seconds of cd if hit.
And you forgot to add the fact that Pyke can be very viable if played in the jungle. Thresh is useless when played in the jungle.
At max rank with the support item and at 45 percent cdr, Pyke has a CD on his Q of 4.4.
At max rank with the support item and at 45 percent cdr, Thresh has a CD on his Q of 6.6. Assuming he lands his hook, it goes down to 3.6. .8 seconds is nowhere near considerable of being called a clear difference in CD times.
At max rank with the support item and 10 percent cdr, Pyke has a CD on his Q of 7.2.
At max rank with the support item and at 10 percent cdr, Thresh has a CD on his Q of 10.8. Pyke has the lower CD. The only times I have a lower CD than Pyke on my Q is very small and even then, Pyke still has the better cooldown times.

I don't know what you're goal was in using those numbers and I don't know what you're goal was in bringing up the rest of his kit in order to defend his Q being alright. The majority and when I say majority i mean 5 out of 7 sentences were deditcated to his Q. Even when you compare Q to Q, Pyke has the superior Q despite his kit being more useful than the majority or hooking supports. Increase the cooldown on Pyke's Q. Once that is done, then Pyke will be okay.

JaspersSep 4, 20181 votes

Yeah it's a little low compared to similar abilities.

To be fair, the refund should be lower on stabs.

Daddy AntsSep 4, 20181 votes

Thresh Q hitbox is wider than a fat kid who loves cake also.

okamiyasha95Sep 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Thresh Q hitbox is wider than a fat kid who loves cake also.

I know what you're talking about. I've had the "Oh wow" moments too where I thought it was gonna miss but it magically hooked the enemy like Nautilus's Q. That's conditional. It only happens on one side. If done on the other side, it will be a miss. It's due to the htibox trying to shape itself to fit the actual hook. So it's like an L instead of an I.