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Riot please stop placing fresh lvl 30 players into default silver elo

Laura ß··10 votes·4,425 views

Just start them in iron and if they are good they will climb but why the fuck start them against silver players? they are not only going to make whichever team they are on lose but also they create toxicity and bad environment along the way. They are like rolling toxic barrels on their way down to their correct elo.

I'm sick and tired of playing with and against freshly lvl 30 players who CLEARLY don't belong in this elo, they are going to end up in bronze or iron and they are just making players lose, rage and have a bad game along the way. And if anyone is hot headed they will rage at them and end up chat restricted or banned and all because your system decides its best to start off a new player in silver.

Think about it riot, nobody fucking wants a noob in their team and when this game is already hard to win and when you are dependent on 4 others to win having 1 player who doesn't belong it's kinda you as a company provoking toxicity.

15 Comments

Karunamon4 votes

Two problems mean this will never happen.

The first is that middle silver is, by definition, the average skill level of the game where most players are. When you start someone on any kind of ranked ladder, you put them in the middle and they adjust up or down from there, because statistically, their skill level won't deviate too far from that.

The second problem is that low iron is a fuckfest. It's where the incredibly tilty, incredibly toxic people wind up. (To put this into perspective, more people are in master/grandmaster than iron 4 - that's how bad it is), and it's a horrible experience to play there. Putting people in that elo to start would turn off more newbies.

Laura ß1 votes

The system places a new lvl 30 account into silver when you are on your placements and once you are done it puts you on your correct elo and lest say a new player loses 9 out of 10 placements and goes to bronce then the system worked, right? But does anyone stop and think about the unlucky players who got placed with that player on the 9 games he lost?

Im sure players raged, cursed and got tilted because of this new player because everyone wants to win. Im saying they are toxic bombs and should not be placed in silver and should be placed in the elo they will most likely end up wich is silver and iron.

get my point?

Kai Guy1 votes

Traditionally the MMR gains and losses for a team with some one who is in placement/provisional matches in MMR systems are directly impacted and adjusted to account for the systems high uncertainty of the placement account, with the intent that it makes less negative impact.

I don't know if or what riots adjustments would be, but that's been a thing in Team elo and MMR systems so its a reasonable assumption they have something similar in place.

Kai Guy1 votes

The one thing I would want to correct you on here is why yhe middle point tends to be the start point in MMR systems. Traditionally It roughly represents the 50% Percentile marker. Players don't get put into silver because its the middle. Its the middle because that's where players start. MMR and Elo work by not only allowing for players to climb but for them to sink as well. That tends to express itself as seeing about half the players under and half above the starting MMR. Soft resets and inactive accounts do have some impact on this so its not set in stone. MMR gains for games like league need to be tracked individually by account so K factor gaps can result in different players having different MMR stakes in the match.

Elo systems and derivatives work by allowing Bad players to sink and good ones to rise. Consistent trends in their playing can be described as skill. In skill games skill will directly impact your ability to win or lose. So the theory goes that skill games thus can be objectively measured by tracking players wins and losses.

Kachykvar2 votes

To add upon this, I would also suggest Riot stop matchmaking Gold/Silver players with unranked players. If they are unranked, they should be matched up with other unranked players. It makes no sense to have a low-level 32 unranked player matched up with a gold 4 level 173 player. Like how does that make any sense?

RootOfAllThings1 votes

How is the system supposed to gauge skill level by matching unknowns against other unknowns? Sure, you can establish that Unranked Player #4156 is better than Unranked Player #4157 if one beats the other 7 games out of 10, but the point is to find where they belong on the ladder of all players, not of unranked players.

Almost Creative2 votes

I thought new players do get placed in Iron?

Kai Guy1 votes

No idea if that's still a thing. Riots positional experiment got scrapped for now. This season players where starting in iron but the Placement matches couldn't lose Tiers. So odds are very few players where starting in Iron, going off how small of a % of players that MMR currently is.

haaaaaaalp2 votes

Because the elo model requires everyone to be added in the middle to function. If you try to put new players into iron, the ladder will just shift so that iron becomes the middle of the ladder.

Beerstein1 votes

They should just base it off the players nonranked MMR when first entering ranked TBH. It may not be the BEST measure, but it's better than none and a fair entry point.

ZerglingOne1 votes

Break 1-30 into 2 groups. People that want a more casual experience, and people that want a more competitive experience and intend on playing ranked. In that second group, your entire 1-30 experience revolves around your starting point in ranked. Make experience only available from PvP.

Let's say you have a 70% WR, which would place your first placements in Plat 4. Then you can essentially rise or drop 3 divisions based on your performance in your first 10 matches. Win all 10 and you get Plat 1, lose all 10 and you end up in gold 3.

Kai Guy1 votes

Lowering the starting point just drags down the rest of the ladder. Silver players get more free wins then free losses from newbies in their mmr. Your going to occupie 20% of your teams slots so every match that has a total newbie inherently advantages you in the long run. Pretty Good odds to not have them on your side. assuming player is properly placed in silver then the odds are they can only lose MMR goingfoward. They don't have an influx of weaker players to give them wins, they will be in even games, 50% for even games. Or they will be vs some one climbing, and that 20% of your teams slots now hurts your odds cuz your now going to be vs stronger mismatches more often.

For a better quality of matches having your matchmaker account for experience in the que for the season tends to be a better option. As MMR becomes more accurate with data points, matchmaker can create closer games by putting similar MMR and Experience players into a match. That lowers the odds of having a smurf or a newbie wrecking the average silver experience, but it does require the players to grind matches out.

I think riots solution probably involves the LP system they use. By having MMR and your Tier/LP tracked with different values they can set MMR gains and losses to be quite a bit higher then a normal MMR system as until LP catches up then you have not locked in your Tier for the season. That pretty dramatically affects consistently awfull or awesome accounts to move rapidly outta silver MMR, But it also makes actual silver players have a lot of MMR rubber banding, especially when they have low K factors.

So TLDR. Putting the start point in Iron just makes the entire ranked ladder shift downwards.

ll3lackbeard1 votes

I proved I could make it to Silver last season yet my placement put me in Bronze. I see this for many players. Most people I get matched with right now in Bronze were Silver players last year. Yet new level 30 accounts can get Silver right off the bat. This is garbage as you do see a lot of first season Silver players with a very low (20%) win rate. They are garbage and should never have been placed there. I’ll dodge when I see this. Just unfair for those that grinded to get Silver and now have to grind back up the ladder again when these noobs get Silver without trying.

Floupi1 votes

(I think) They added this already in season 9, the players who first time ranked are starting in iron

Didn't check myself but it should be the case

Raptor435771 votes

I completely agree as a new level 30 player. The game decided for some reason that I belonged in Gold (which I'm nowhere even close to being, I expect to be around high bronze to mid silver). It's been 7 games and I'm 2-5. Every single game is an extreme mismatch for me in lane, and every single game is literally my teammates blaming me for everything. I would be across the map with no way to join a fight and they would still spam pings at me and tell me to stop inting. It's not fun for me or for my teammates. They don't want to lose and I don't want to get yelled at. And it's been 7 FREAKING GAMES. WHY AM I STILL FACING GOLD PLAYERS WHEN I'VE PROVED OVER AND OVER THAT I CAN'T PLAY AGAINST GOLD PLAYERS????????

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