The boards are more excited about a Tank meta/rework than anything in the past year

doiminat0r3600··54 votes·2,998 views

I wonder why....

70 Comments

Naomi CoffeeGoat15 votes

The boards like pool noodle fights and stat checking.

xevi1 votes

but they also hate Tryndamere who stat checks you with rng

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Key words: "RNG"

Spicy Rice1 votes

Yes and no. If he has 35% crit, and his first one doesn't crit, the 2nd has a 70% chance of critting, and if that doesn't crit, his 3 is guaranteed.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Then RNGesus comes along and gives him 3 crits in a row when he starts the trade with no fury. Or conversely, he starts with no fury and goes 5 AA's without a single crit.

In either scenario, the trade is won/lost based entirely on RNG.

Rebonack4 votes

{quoted}

The boards like pool noodle fights and stat checking.

There is nothing more hilarious in this game than watching two Malphites slap the shit out of each other and you know it.

Looknook1 votes

What's wrong with a 30sec to a minute long fight that allows both sides to go through multiple rotations of spells and try to out play the other? I think that's a lot more fun then, a hey an ene- and I'm dead.

Spicy Rice1 votes

Except it wasnt 30 secs to a min. I played multiple games during the tank meta where people died, re spawned, died, re spawns some again, and could still return to the same fight

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

I've had level one fights like that.

Those games were always hilarious.

Looknook1 votes

While a good deal of that probably does have to do with the tankenness of those fighting death timers were also significantly shorter in Season 5 than now

Big Lincoln1 votes

but we don't like ADCs who are the biggest stat checks of all

explain this

Spicy Rice14 votes

I dunno. Personally, I find tank metas to be the most restrictive of metas. In other metas, you can at least pick off meta, and still do well.

In tank metas, you either pick a tank, or a tank buster. Anything else will get cced to oblivion while putting out negative damage

EDIT: why is this getting downvoted when my post that literally says the same thing 1 comment down is upvoted?

Variks the Loyal33 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEOE34Zc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-05T00:15:34.030+0000)

I dunno. Personally, I find tank metas to be the most restrictive of metas. In other metas, you can at least pick off meta, and still do well.

In tank metas, you either pick a tank, or a tank buster. Anything else will get cced to oblivion while putting out negative damage

Not really true.

In a meta where Tanks can be viable in a multitude of roles (Top, Jungle, Support, and Mid with Galio), almost everything is viable as a result.

You need ADCs and Battle Mages to whittle down the tanks.

You need Assassins and Burst Mages to kill the ADCs and Battle Mages.

You need Enchanters to protect the ADCs from the Assassins, etc.

You need Fighters to offset the support by subsisting in the middle of combat and dealing a lot of sustained damage while being durable.

You need Tanks to peel off those Fighters.

And it's a never ending cycle.

Spicy Rice23 votes

In theory, yes, but in our last tank meta, what happened? You ended up with a tank top, jungle, and support, a mage mid to waveclear, and an adc who could use botrk bot (trust, vayne, kog, twitch).

Most mages, fighters, and assassins were near unplayable, due to the dominance of tanks.

And please note, I'm talking about a tank meta, not a perfect meta where everything is balanced.

Snowplosion7 votes

Nobody remembers how insanely broken Jinx was during the season 5 tank meta. She was the best statistically by far.

Spicy Rice2 votes

I mean, she's included, I simply didn't mention her.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Unless I;m mistaken, the last tank meta was Cinderhulk. Where Cinderhulk and Gromp buff shredded team as fast as some ADC's. It's not exactly the best example of a tank meta.

Spicy Rice1 votes

Afaik, that was our only tank meta

TurquoiseYoshi3 votes

That's viable, not strong. If tanks are strong in all of those roles, that goes completely out the window.

RavenMagus3 votes

No, you actually just pick tanks to pick off the enemy ADCs, and then you pick more tanks to try and peel the other tanks from your own ADCs.

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

What you describe there is not a tank meta, it is balance.

I could do the same with every other class and describe it like it would be healthy.

We have a Mage meta: we need assassins to take out the mages we need tanks to peel off these assassins from the carries we need marksmen to kill these tanks we need enchanters to protect the marksmen

You see, it works the exact same way. That means a balanced game. But if you have a tank meta, that means that tanks are significantly stronger than other classes and so the game is not balanced. Like already mentioned: we just would see tanks and tank busters in a game. Any champ who is not a tank or able to deal with tanks easily gets pushed out of the game. Because tanks are in advantage.

Mizuki Zahra1 votes

{quoted}

What you describe there is not a tank meta, it is balance.

I could do the same with every other class and describe it like it would be healthy.

We have a Mage meta: we need assassins to take out the mages we need tanks to peel off these assassins from the carries we need marksmen to kill these tanks we need enchanters to protect the marksmen

You see, it works the exact same way. That means a balanced game. But if you have a tank meta, that means that tanks are significantly stronger than other classes and so the game is not balanced. Like already mentioned: we just would see tanks and tank busters in a game. Any champ who is not a tank or able to deal with tanks easily gets pushed out of the game. Because tanks are in advantage.

enchanters now that's a neat way to look at supports role

Anidan5 votes

There's a difference between a meta wherein tanks are viable and a tank meta. In a meta wherein tanks are viable, your situation can arise. In a tank meta, your situation doesn't arise because the roles are all being swamped by the dominant tanks and anyone who can't handle not just one tank but several is no longer a viable choice. This means burst champions get phased out in favor of sustained damage just so the tanks actually have a chance of dying and forms of burst survivability tend to come into vogue because it's hard to kill a tank who just gained 500+ hp back in just a couple of seconds or less given his defense stats even with sustained damage.

This is incredibly important to remember: You do not want a tank meta. You want a balanced meta. Any meta that has a class name/role preceding it is instantly an unbalanced one because that role dictates what is and is not allowed to be viable. You want to aim for a balanced meta, not [role] meta.

UnboundCreator3 votes

{quoted}

Not really true.

In a meta where Tanks can be viable in a multitude of roles (Top, Jungle, Support, and Mid with Galio), almost everything is viable as a result.

You need ADCs and Battle Mages to whittle down the tanks.

You need Assassins and Burst Mages to kill the ADCs and Battle Mages.

You need Enchanters to protect the ADCs from the Assassins, etc.

You need Fighters to offset the support by subsisting in the middle of combat and dealing a lot of sustained damage while being durable.

You need Tanks to peel off those Fighters.

And it's a never ending cycle.

No lol in tank meta its tank jungle tank top and tank support. The adc and mid are just for show

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

In tank metas, you either pick a tank, or a tank buster. Anything else will get cced to oblivion while putting out negative damage

And who are those tank busters? Most of them are squishy which makes assassins viable. It means that adc is a needed class in order to teamfight because they have to focus down the tanks in order to win. It means that supports are needed to protect those tank busters. It means that teamfights aren't decided based on which team instagibed one of the enemy in 0.1 seconds but based on which team was ahead and peeled properly with good target selection and use of cc. It means that you have to focus the right targets because not everything in the game dies in < 1.0 second.

Spicy Rice2 votes

I shall reiterate. Tank. Meta.

In tank metas, tanks are so strong, assassins literally cannot do their jobs, same with squishy supports. In tank metas, tanks bowl over everything.

when tanks are strong, they have some of the least counterplay of any class, because they live forever, and can still kill you.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

In tank metas, tanks are so strong, assassins literally cannot do their jobs

No, assassins can't assassinate the tanks, but the tank busters can be easily assassinated. In the tank metas of past assassins were still perfectly viable they just had to have good target selection.

In tank metas, tanks bowl over everything.

False, in past tank metas (note not bruiser/juggernaut metas, actual tank metas) tanks didn't do dick for damage and they didn't bowl over anything.

when tanks are strong, they have some of the least counterplay of any class,

ha ha, hahahahah HAHAHAHA ahhhh, someone has never seen an assassin meta. Although it has been several years since we've seen one.

because they live forever, and can still kill you.

You're thinking of bruisers and juggernauts. Tanks don't kill you, their team does.

Spicy Rice1 votes

Aight

  1. How are assassins gonna kill the tank buster through the 3 enemy tanks?

  2. In our last tank meta, you literally had tanks 1v5ing teams. Hell, I saw a sion tank a base laser for 30 straight seconds, and live.

  3. Tank meta means they are the dominantly class, therefore, they beat everything. They were the gun in Rock Paper Scissors

  4. I played through the season 3 assassin meta. True, people died left and right, but at least they were all killable.

  5. I'll tell you what you told me. Ha ha hahahahah HAHAHAHA ahhhh, someone has never seen a tank meta. Although it has been a bit since we've seen one

Ralanr2 votes

On just the first point: getting past the front line is the assassins specialty. They should shine in that regard.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

How are assassins gonna kill the tank buster through the 3 enemy tanks?

That's what assassisns specialize in. How? With their mobility and patience to make sure that the enemy team has already used their main cooldowns. That is the only thing you need to do to play kat for instance.

In our last tank meta, you literally had tanks 1v5ing teams. Hell, I saw a sion tank a base laser for 30 straight seconds, and live.

I call bullshit on that. No way in hell. You're just straight up lying now.

Tank meta means they are the dominantly class, therefore, they beat everything. They were the gun in Rock Paper Scissors

They beat everything except the tank busters you commented on. Those were needed too. They didn't beat everything because you commented on another class which was necessary. Then you need something to beat the tank busters and you get my comment from before. You act as if tanks beat everything but by your own comment other classes are necessary in tank metas, and diversity is the result.

I played through the season 3 assassin meta. True, people died left and right, but at least they were all killable.

I really don't think you did. Sure they were all killable, but that means you only needed one class of champions because assassins kill assassins just fine and no other class is necessary.

I'll tell you what you told me. Ha ha hahahahah HAHAHAHA ahhhh, someone has never seen a tank meta. Although it has been a bit since we've seen one

Keep telling yourself that kid. Through your lies and inconsistent arguments i can tell we are done here.

ExhibitD7 votes

Why does everyone seem to think that tank rework will bring about a tank meta. An assassin meta didn't exactly work out after the assassin rework aside from people playing them and trying to figure them out.

Bârd6 votes

Well, it's not an assassin meta.

It's just that assassins are MORE in meta than they were before the reworks.

I don't think we've had a true assassin meta since season 3.

The days of 97% ban rate Kassadin, Zed Khazix finding their way into every other game, Rengar being the biggest split push threat in the history of League, and Leblanc Talon having higher damage and their silences.

Count Zubat6 votes

Tbh, season 5 tank meta was the most fun I had playing league (I started playing in Season 4 just before Soraka rework), but that's probably because back then, mine two favorite champs to play were Vladimir and Mordekaiser, champions that excel in long lasting games and long lasting teamfights. Like yeah, champs like Sejuani and Gragas were kinda broken, but most of the time they were banned anyways.

Big Lincoln5 votes

because most boards are low elo and don't want to be punished for mistakes

BluePolarizer13 votes

most low elos play "high skillcap 1337 outplay champs" while challenger coaches recommend people serious about climbing to high elo to play simple champions and/or full tanks.

Spicy Rice3 votes

It's because they take no skill, that they are easier to climb with. At the same time, you are neutering your ability to mechanically outplay opponents,

It's the difference between straight up riding a bike, and learning using a tricycle. Yeah, you are gonna be moving sooner, but in the end, who's gonna move faster.

BluePolarizer15 votes

There is nothing you or anyone can say that will convince me a bronze or silver Yasuo/Zed is better than even a gold Annie/Malphite. Mechanically outplaying people is like, 1% of this game. The other 99% is not tilting, being where you need to be when you need to be, and not doing extremely dumb shit.

Spicy Rice3 votes

I'm not trying to say any player is better or worse. All I'm saying is that people who play high skill cap champs will get to a point where they climb leaps and bound a faster than those who play lower skill cap champs, due to the necessity of mechanical skill the higher you go.

Bârd2 votes

It's a matter of reliability.

Even if you are a god at Yasuo (or Riven, Vayne, etc), you can't always just outplay people.

What good is Riven animation cancelling against a Maokai who heals off your spell casts?

What good is a godlike Yasuo knockup if Soraka silences you?

BluePolarizer6 votes

Annie Bot is challenger. How many Yasuo mains are there in challenger? How many are permabronze?

UnboundCreator2 votes

{quoted}

Annie Bot is challenger. How many Yasuo mains are there in challenger? How many are permabronze?

Yassuo is a challenger yasuo main..

PermabannedGaren4 votes

{quoted}

There is nothing you or anyone can say that will convince me a bronze or silver Yasuo/Zed is better than even a gold Annie/Malphite. Mechanically outplaying people is like, 1% of this game. The other 99% is not tilting, being where you need to be when you need to be, and not doing extremely dumb shit.

"Yasuo is really fun, but he's so fucking hard to play."

  • Dyrus

"I think Riven's one of the hardest champions to play in the game."

  • IWDominate

Playing simpler champions to climb is effective because you don't have to master the mechanics, required game knowledge, and interplay of a difficult champion like, I don't know, Lee Sin.

What is your point? That some champions aren't more difficult than others? They are.

Mimr7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEOE34Zc,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-02-05T02:33:16.630+0000)

It's because they take no skill, that they are easier to climb with. At the same time, you are neutering your ability to mechanically outplay opponents,

It's the difference between straight up riding a bike, and learning using a tricycle. Yeah, you are gonna be moving sooner, but in the end, who's gonna move faster.

The point is that tanks are in very high demand in low elo soloq. Everyone plays dps, so if you pick a tank you instantly make your team comp a LOT more powerful than your opponents. Result: freelo.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

he point is that tanks are in very high demand in low elo soloq

I thought is was just CC that was in demand. XD

ŚtrongMental4 votes

DFG makes its return Late 2017! Predicted.

Legacy Hydralpha6 votes

DFG for every class.

SUPPORT DFG.

Sp33d Zer02 votes

Wait, supports don't 100-0 people enough already?

Legacy Hydralpha1 votes

We call those "mages".

Spicy Rice1 votes

DFGaren

Incognonymous3 votes

Tanks are the ultimate role regulators. They make sure the enemy assassin is on their toes when going in on someone. They make sure the enemy carries are locked down while peeling for their own if necessary. They're tanking while a damage class is doing the deeps.

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