Zoe gets buffed, and Sejuani still intentionally left at the dumpster

BeatzBoyFTW·Oct 19, 2018·96 votes·19,284 views

Classic Gameplay Team, everyone. They literally refused to buff back champions that got nerfed for the sake of Worlds.

136 Comments

JamareeOct 19, 201830 votes

I know Sej needs help and all, but didn't people hate Sej when she was good?

BeatzBoyFTWOct 19, 201875 votes

{quoted}

I know Sej needs help and all, but didn't people hate Sej when she was good?

As hated as Yasuo, Zoe or Zed? Honestly no.

JamareeOct 19, 201810 votes

{quoted}

As hated as Yasuo, Zoe or Zed? Honestly no.

Doubt any champion will get that much hate, though to be fair with Zoe, the only elo she has a 50% win rate is Masters, hell, Sej actually has higher win rates then her at every elo except Plat and Diamond.

HethaleanOct 19, 201849 votes

{quoted}

Doubt any champion will get that much hate, though to be fair with Zoe, the only elo she has a 50% win rate is Masters, hell, Sej actually has higher win rates then her at every elo except Plat and Diamond.

Zoe still maxes out the 'feeling unfair' meter for champions

JamareeOct 19, 201817 votes

{quoted}

Zoe still maxes out the 'feeling unfair' meter for champions

I hate Shaco more then anyone personally, Zoe is just a case of watch out for the skillshot, at least for me.

HethaleanOct 19, 20189 votes

{quoted}

I hate Shaco more then anyone personally, Zoe is just a case of watch out for the skillshot, at least for me.

Well, her E comes out of no where just like Shaco. It can be from fog of war 1500 units away. Also, her Q can murder you without E if she has an item (which is pretty fast). Shaco doesn't team fight well. Zoe does it all decently well. Her long range CC guarantees she'll either be valuable in team fights or lets' you delete someone from the game too from pretty much safety unless you catch her in her R and kill her before she teleports back to safety. That's her 'risk'... momentary in range.

JamareeOct 19, 201810 votes

{quoted}

Well, her E comes out of no where just like Shaco. It can be from fog of war 1500 units away.

So can every long range skill shot, hers just has the advantage of going farther because of walls.

Also, her Q can murder you without E if she has an item (which is pretty fast).

Only if she is stupidly far ahead, hits you will a fully loaded one, and you have no MR.

Shaco doesn't team fight well.

His teamfight ability isn't why I hate him, I understand his team fight is shit, his map pressure is cancer.

Zoe does it all decently well.

Clearly not, or her win rate wouldn't be well below the average in every elo except Diamond and Master.

Her long range CC guarantees she'll either be valuable in team fights or lets' you delete someone from the game too from pretty much safety unless you catch her in her R and kill her before she teleports back to safety. That's her 'risk'... momentary in range.

Technically not a guarantee since it can miss, because its a skillshot.

HethaleanOct 19, 20187 votes

{quoted}

So can every long range skill shot, hers just has the advantage of going farther because of walls.

Only if she is stupidly far ahead, hits you will a fully loaded one, and you have no MR.

I would disagree. She doesn't have to be that far ahead. Also, we are talking about ONE SINGLE ABILITY on her kit. Even if not far ahead, or if you have MR items as a carry. It's enough.

Clearly not, or her win rate wouldn't be well below the average in every elo except Diamond and Master.

OK, so by that same logic. Sejuani can't team fight well. Her win rate is 45%. Ashe win rate is below average. Ornns' team fight must obviously not be valuable. His win rate is 44.8%.

Technically not a guarantee since it can miss, because its a skillshot.

I said guaranteed to be valuable. She has a skill shot that is a very good CC.

StupaflyOct 19, 20188 votes

She cannot 1 shot people with her q alone unless she is fed. she needs her r or e for real damage. Her wave clear is lackluster and she is EXTREMELY vunerable to all-ins.

her damage is also delayed. she doesnt have instant burst and has to set up her damage. she cant just walk up to you and blow you up, she has to set up her damage.

Im not saying she is fun to play against, i hear it often enough to know people dislike it when i play her.

Finally "I said guaranteed to be valuable. She has a skill shot that is a very good CC."... LOL. Blitz isnt guaranteed to be valuble, thresh isnt guaranteed to be valuable, morg isnt guaranteed to be valuable. They all have skill shots that are very good CC but are not guaranteed to be valuable.

Z3SleeperOct 20, 20184 votes

A Blitz/Morg/Thresh Q that is never thrown is guaranteed to be valuable actually. The mere fact that the skill is available causes enemies to play accordingly.

OHminusOct 19, 20181 votes

So can every long range skill shot

Oh yes. Which ability that is NOT an ult travels as far as Zoe's E/Q?

Answer: Kai'sa W, Varus Q, Nidalee Q Heck, I'll be generous. Jayce E/Q, Mini-Gnar Q if you throw it backwards, ASol Q if you run it down mid.

No basic ability that is a skillshot, or combination thereof on any other champ can 100-0 a squishy from >1400 range. Nidalee used to be able to do it, and that's why her Q got gutted for season 4 and triforce bruiser nid become popular top.

JamareeOct 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Oh yes. Which ability that is NOT an ult travels as far as Zoe's E/Q?

Answer: Kai'sa W, Varus Q, Nidalee Q Heck, I'll be generous. Jayce E/Q, Mini-Gnar Q if you throw it backwards, ASol Q if you run it down mid.

No basic ability that is a skillshot, or combination thereof on any other champ can 100-0 a squishy from >1400 range. Nidalee used to be able to do it, and that's why her Q got gutted for season 4 and triforce bruiser nid become popular top.

How many of those champions did you mention ONLY have all their damage in one ability, because you aren't going to kill people with her E, or her W, or her ultimate, or her passive, all her damage is in one ability, thus it gets to do a lot.

Z3SleeperOct 20, 20182 votes

> Zoe has one damage ability

Passive: 10 − 124 (based on level) (+ 20% AP) bonus magic damage Q: 17.5 − 125 (based on level) (+ 125 / 187.5 / 250 / 312.5 / 375) (+ 150% AP) magic damage W: 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 / 195 (+ 40% AP) magic damage E: 120 / 200 / 280 / 360 / 440 (+ 80% AP) mixed damage

{quoted}

How many of those champions did you mention ONLY have all their damage in one ability, because you aren't going to kill people with her E, or her W, or her ultimate, or her passive, all her damage is in one ability, thus it gets to do a lot.

Is Jayce gonna kill you entirely with 1 ability? Is Varus? Kai'Sa? No? Then this argument is irrelevant.

JamareeOct 20, 20183 votes

{quoted}

> Zoe has one damage ability

Passive: 10 − 124 (based on level) (+ 20% AP) bonus magic damage

Did you know that Lulu's passive does almost that much, without needing to cast spells at that?

with each bolt for a total of 15 − 117 (based on level) (+ 15% AP) bonus magic damage per basic attack.

Q: 17.5 − 125 (based on level) (+ 125 / 187.5 / 250 / 312.5 / 375) (+ 150% AP) magic damage

Yeah, this is where all her damage is.

W: 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 / 195 (+ 40% AP) magic damage

Not all that much.

E: 120 / 200 / 280 / 360 / 440 (+ 80% AP) mixed damage

Technically it is 220, with 40% AP, 440 is the maximum damage.

Is Jayce gonna kill you entirely with 1 ability? Is Varus? Kai'Sa? No? Then this argument is irrelevant.

Nor is Zoe unless she is obscenely far ahead.

CowseedOct 19, 20181 votes

Ward?

HethaleanOct 19, 201815 votes

{quoted}

Ward?

I forgot. It is possible to keep the entire area around you lit up like xmas 24/7 lol

AggressiveWolfOct 19, 20184 votes

{quoted}

As hated as Yasuo, Zoe or Zed? Honestly no.

I literally have PTSD of a 700 armor senjuani running around my towers before perma CC'ing my Lee sin as I watched with horror.

Still more fun than Sion

SithesisLordOct 19, 20185 votes

You mean the 700 armor Sejuani who loses almost all of that resistance by as much as a forced breath from a nearby minion? That 700 armor Sejuani?

IPromiseTomorrowOct 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

As hated as Yasuo, Zoe or Zed? Honestly no.

It all comes down to community/social bias.

PhantomSpirit101Oct 19, 20188 votes

I mean, that goes with every other tank so Sejuani isn't very special in that category honestly.

SangreDeNocheOct 20, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I know Sej needs help and all, but didn't people hate Sej when she was good?

People hate every champ when they're good, without fail.

AugustHeatHazeOct 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

People hate every champ when they're good, without fail.

exactly some champs just fade in peoples minds compared to others, zoe and yas keep the stigma while other champs loose it and people don't start ranting when they are given a small buff.

DesirableOct 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I know Sej needs help and all, but didn't people hate Sej when she was good?

As a plat scrub I have never seen someone complaining about sejuani , but I'm pretty sure every rank hates zoe and want her deleted.

PhantomSpirit101Oct 19, 201817 votes

Waiting for Revert [sg-janna]

BisaknospOct 19, 201817 votes

why are they buffing zoe before adressing her cancer aids kit?

Packun FlowerOct 19, 201816 votes

I don't think Riot knows what they want to do with Zoe either.

First, she gets a string of nerfs.
Then she gets a buff or two.
Then more nerfs.
Then a buff.
Then they say she needs a kit a rework.
Then they pull her kit rework and scrap it.
Now she's getting buffs again.

I like Zoe's character but clearly, she has some problems with her design that even Riot just cant seem to work through.

UltîmaOct 19, 20183 votes

The issues surrounding her W have been pointed out since she was in the PBE and for whatever reason Riot refuses to do anything about it. It defies reason.

CowseedOct 19, 20185 votes

I think it's the Yasuo effect. People hate her so much that Riot finds it difficult to just make her viable without putting 30% of the playerbase on tilt.

But for the love of God. People need to learn to dodge. The same people in my games who bitched about Zoe are the same ones that walk into her sleep spell or run up to her while she has Q. That's the only oppressive thing about Zoe. The E. It is also THE EASIEST TO PREDICT SKILL IN THE GAME!

xZabaksxOct 19, 20187 votes

{quoted}

The E. It is also THE EASIEST TO PREDICT SKILL IN THE GAME!

RekSai R

CaveslothOct 19, 201812 votes

Revert Sej, keep Zoe in the gutter till they fix her.

Moody POct 19, 20189 votes

revert

BeatzBoyFTWOct 19, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eBT2Pzqj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-19T12:18:30.549+0000)

revert

Honestly still preferred her current kit. Her old kit had nothing but her ult being the only useful thing (her W is literally a Sunfire Cape & E being a very unnoticeable slow)

Moody POct 19, 20186 votes

her W is literally a Sunfire Cape

and?

E being a 70% slow for 1.5 seconds on a 6 second base cooldown unnoticeable. top kek, my man

BeatzBoyFTWOct 19, 20185 votes

and?

Lacks a ton of potential gameplay with its use being nothing but waveclearing.

E being a 70% slow for 1.5 seconds on a 6 second base cooldown unnoticeable. top kek, my man

Unnoticeable as in there's literally almost no condition & hard to know whether you can get affected by the slows or not, not referring to the utility strength.

All she needs to do is touch them once to apply the slow, while her current one requires teamwork alongside her melee teammates to apply the stun, adding the fact that enemies affected will acknowledged them being affected by her stun passivee.

Moody POct 19, 20183 votes

muh potential gameplay. This is a strategy game, not an action shooter. Sejuani being easily kited and peeled after using her Q is gameplay enough.

BeatzBoyFTWOct 19, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eBT2Pzqj,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-19T14:21:45.355+0000)

muh potential gameplay. This is a strategy game, not an action shooter. Sejuani being easily kited and peeled after using her Q is gameplay enough.

Your sentence literally made no sense at all. Frankly speaking, not sure if there's any point in talking with you....

Moody POct 19, 20185 votes

bother me when you have an argument that matters, yeah? "move to the left or right" repeated across 120 champions isn't fun, interesting or innovative.

no point in arguing about function with 90% of boards when you guys are obsessed with the skillshot meme

BeatzBoyFTWOct 19, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eBT2Pzqj,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-19T15:11:03.377+0000)

bother me when you have an argument that matters, yeah? "move to the left or right" repeated across 120 champions isn't fun, interesting or innovative.

no point in arguing about function with 90% of boards when you guys are obsessed with the skillshot meme

I'll bother you when you have an actual proper argument yourself. "Action shooter" & "being kited is considered champions' gameplay" made me instantly lose interest in your comments.

Moody POct 19, 20185 votes

more not arguments

being kited and knowing how to play around being kited, especially within a teamfight, is more interesting and dynamic than any skillshot riot's put into the game

enjoy your 44% winrate rework since it's so amazing riot spent a year trashing it lol

chipndip1Oct 19, 20183 votes

Fun fact: There is not

RaiyzaOct 19, 20188 votes

I dont understand why people seem to think Zoe is fine.

"She cannot one shot you unless she is fed blah blah" that doesnt matter because even if she isn't fed, her q still takes a HUGE chunk of health if youre not a tank. And the skillshot has no warning. If she is not visible, you wont react in time. Its utter bullshit. Same with her sleep ability.

3ternalkarmaOct 19, 20185 votes

{quoted}

I dont understand why people seem to think Zoe is fine.

"She cannot one shot you unless she is fed blah blah" that doesnt matter because even if she isn't fed, her q still takes a HUGE chunk of health if youre not a tank. And the skillshot has no warning. If she is not visible, you wont react in time. Its utter bullshit. Same with her sleep ability.

i mean that is the job of a burst mage.... and honestly id rather play lux over zoe now lux at least has more guaranteed damage and can actually oneshot people without being super ahead

PoskeOct 19, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Classic Gameplay Team, everyone. They literally refused to buff back champions that got nerfed for the sake of Worlds.

Ziggs is literally in depression since season 4

Bronze tier (Weakest tier, according to lolalytics) for 4 seasons Oh and he was silver tier (Overated to plat tier out of player nostalgia) in that 1 firstblood botlane tower Milions of gold patch.

ZeromatsuOct 19, 20181 votes

Guess you missed Adc Ziggs meta.

iDarkWindOct 19, 20182 votes

Oh, you mean that champion that when is good is a front line tank that has a powerfull engage, that every ability has CC (Yes, every ability) and still does %max health against targets stunned by her E that is a point click stun that can be stacked by her and her team mates? Oh I see. As long her kit stays this way, she just can't be strong and be balanced at the same time.

CaveslothOct 19, 20186 votes

Revert her then. I don't recall any complaints about old Sej in pro play, just low elo.

chipndip1Oct 19, 20183 votes

Then you're an anime protag, cause you're suffering from amnesia.

CaveslothOct 19, 20186 votes

Was she any worse than she is now? Would she be in this meta in she was reverted? Cause all she was back then was a slow moving ult bot. I can't see that doing well in today's meta. I mean when's the last time you saw Amumu?

chipndip1Oct 19, 20182 votes

Back then, she was in pro play all over because she did a ton of ambient damage with Cinderhulk + W. Since she had no balance levers, they just nerfed all her numbers and left her there, making her clears horrible and her interactions generally garbage until mid to late game.

If you think "fucking garbage" = "healthy", then you have issues with how you view League. Just because a champ isn't complained about doesn't mean their kit's in a good spot. Like you just said, when's the last time anyone gave a fuck about Amumu? Nerfing something to a point where it isn't an issue doesn't mean it wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't nerfed off a cliff.

CaveslothOct 19, 20182 votes

Yes, that was problem back then, but your not getting what I'm saying. In this high damage meta, which would be worse, her old kit, or her new one? Cause I don't think you could just sit on someones nuts with W and Cinder now (in high elo anyway, low you probably could). Any her new kit is garbage outside of organized play anyhow, I'd rather see it reverted, cause I could give a flying fart about organized play. They deleted a champ I liked.