Recognition of success as Support (A solution i propose to reward Supports to get more gold)

rtbf225618241·Nov 15, 2016·1 votes·1,040 views

Well Riot wants to make Supporting more attractive and i'm thinking there is a way to make Supports earn more gold without allowing other roles to abuse it.

Make it detect how much damage and how many wards you are using per minute. Support players usually deal less damage than everyone else and this way, mage Supports who hard carry get enough gold anyway and won't be tagged as "Support". If you are tagged as Support you get extra gold.

And this means total damage, not damage to champions. Otherwise, everything would be a bro lane. Propably should be combined with a number of other factor such as damage taken and how many wards placed. I feel like this should trigger until after Sightstone has been bought just to make sure. High accuracy is crucial here to prevent gold income abuse.

Anyway that's what i think. Discuss below.

51 Comments

theArtifactsNov 15, 20163 votes

This wouldn't work. Wards and damage are accessible to all lanes. This would be abused by everyone. And TBH with a little buff to the gold producing mastery point and the current gold items.. gold / experience isn't an issue. The issue is that supports are under appreciated by players and their contribution isn't recognized cause they aren't meant to get the kills. This is the curse of supports and why not many people main them. Want people to love playing support? It's just going to have to be a play style you enjoy, and curving player toxicity is a big part of it.

Personally I like support, I just stopped playing it cause I found I couldn't rely on ADC's in my elo.

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

While I do think that gold is a problem (marksmen too have to deal with exp so that is fine), Supports are truly not suppose to get kills. That is why we are hated when we do. I play Thresh, aye? I am chasing then enemy ADC to their turret and it looks like my marksmen was not going to get the kill so I take it to confirm it. I get backlashed, toxicity, and reported for it. It was out of my marksmen range so instead of continuing your farming, I get all the hate possible for it. It gets worse, somehow, when I just get the kill from fighting without intent.

As a support, you rely on your ADC to do their job. I had once fought a Caitlyn and my ADC, a Jinx, just took her bullying and did nothing. Guess what? I got all the criticism for not protecting her from Cait's auto attacks and passive, as if that is my problem when Cait is just being the usually bully she is. I have gone to now just muting my ADC the very second the game starts to I do not have to hear the nonsense towards. You didn't protect, you didn't engage, you are just standing there, you got the kill.

That is something Riot cannot fix because that is a player related, or community, issue.

theArtifactsNov 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dslyMIFI,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-11-15T04:30:49.452+0000)

I play Thresh, aye? I am chasing then enemy ADC to their turret and it looks like my marksmen was not going to get the kill so I take it to confirm it. I get backlashed, toxicity, and reported for it. It was out of my marksmen range so instead of continuing your farming, I get all the hate possible for it. It gets worse, somehow, when I just get the kill from fighting without intent.

So what you should do in this case is mute your team mate and report him after the game. It doesn't matter that you're getting reported cause you did nothing incorrect. The report against you reduces the weight of his reports and the report against him (as justified by chat logs) increases the weight of your reports.

As a support, you rely on your ADC to do their job. I had once fought a Caitlyn and my ADC, a Jinx, just took her bullying and did nothing. Guess what? I got all the criticism for not protecting her from Cait's auto attacks and passive, as if that is my problem when Cait is just being the usually bully she is. I have gone to now just muting my ADC the very second the game starts to I do not have to hear the nonsense towards. You didn't protect, you didn't engage, you are just standing there, you got the kill.

That is something Riot cannot fix because that is a player related, or community, issue.

Riot can be tougher on toxicity. That will change the community's attitude over time as it will not be tolerated.

Everything you're saying is confirming what I said. The reason people don't like support is 1) Cause its a different play style with less glory, 2) cause of bad adc's and 3) toxicity.

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

I am left to always mute the ADC before the game even starts. Which is sad because I have no clue what they will say, if anything. Unlike Riven players who are toxic, Marksmen are all over the place and I cannot tell before hand until my first kill or their first death. So I am to mute them before the game starts.

Mysticman89Nov 15, 20163 votes

It's tricky.

Whether they get recognition for it or not, supports are currently quite impactful at their current levels of gold and xp.

They typically don't get much recognition for it, and they don't feel impactful since they're usually not chunking down enemy carries, but they are there, making plays and turning around fights and so on, sometimes realistically being the ones carrying the team despite their gold/xp.

If things change to make supports get more gold or more xp, then we're potentially in the situation where supports are completely OP. I don't know how to fix that without breaking the role entirely as far as gameplay goes.

More recognition through stat tracking and pentassists could maybe be possible and could help with some of peoples issues with support, but I worry they can't change much about the gameplay without fundamentally altering how support works, and that's a very scary proposition for people who like support in it's current form (and probably for adcs who like having someone focused on helping them, at least for the early game).

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

You could be right. But I feel like garbage when I am confronted by the 0/20 Heim and I ended up killed and that 1v1 due to the lack of (Offensive abilities if primary supporting champion or gold if anything else). So players feel like they do not have an impact when the enemy top was crushed to heck and still manages to kill you 1v1.

theArtifactsNov 15, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dslyMIFI,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-11-15T04:34:48.966+0000)

You could be right. But I feel like garbage when I am confronted by the 0/20 Heim and I ended up killed and that 1v1 due to the lack of (Offensive abilities if primary supporting champion or gold if anything else). So players feel like they do not have an impact when the enemy top was crushed to heck and still manages to kill you 1v1.

You might feel bad about it but your job as a support isn't to 1v1. Truthfully if you're 1v1 as support (not against their support) and you have no help in the immediate vicinity you're probably doing something wrong. Doesn't matter that he is 0-20. Now, some "supports" are able to 1v1. That doesn't mean that is their job, so don't confuse what I'm saying.

Mysticman89Nov 15, 20162 votes

I feel like supports in their current form have all the tools needed (e.g. sightstone/shields and heals on item actives) to never be confronted with a fight they don't want, so if the support is caught out (and they shouldn't be due to the sightstone), they should be able to get out anyway if played well. If you're actually trying to fight it, then you're probably playing the wrong role.

Getting people to tunnel on me as a support I often enjoy, because that to me is a victory. I am unlikely to actually die unless they burn some serious summoners/ults, and if they do that then my team should be able to promptly punish them for that (which my teams have generally gotten better at as I've inched up through the elos).

Each of the roles as they exist currently appeal to a different playstyle, and support is one for people who enjoy offering utility and playmaking, not necessarily getting kills themselves. The demographic who likes that sort of thing may not be as broad as some of the other roles, but changing it to me seems like it'd just be shifting the appeal to people who are already satisfied by another role, and leaving the ones who do like support as it currently exists with nothing.

Attticus FinchNov 15, 20162 votes

Supports shouldn't earn gold, because many of them are balanced around being able to operate without it (I.E., the utility in their kits).

If you want supports to have a higher gold income, you'd have to lower the gold-independence of their kits.

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

The crowd control on their kits maybe good, for some, but that does not help them survive. If a top, mid, adc, or jungler is initiated on, what do they do? If they survive the burst, they fight back (and try to run away). A support can only delay the enemy because they do not have the damage to possible kill them unless they chase you for over 45 seconds. Say for example Thresh. He gets caught out, he will use his q and e to delay the enemy and w to protect himself. But his damage with what supports are suppose to build is so weak he has to keep it up for as long as possible to survive. (Lets not say anything about his ult for now). You are right that their kits do not require gold, but surviving does. With only a sightstone, Face of the Mountain and Locket of Irolan Solari will not help me much at all. Yes the crowd control is there but the damage is not. That is a problem.

bad arcade kittyNov 15, 20162 votes

supports already get a lot of gold

unless they want a lot of support ashe, support mf and the likes they shouldn't give them even more gold

support vayne anybody?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

im trying to figure out a way to do support urgot

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

supports dont need extra gold... their items are generally cheaper as a whole compared to items for non support champs

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20162 votes

Oh yeah totally. Just need 500 gold less with no kills and cs means we can still catch up in completed items with - Vision, Survivability and damage. Of course we do not need gold. Please. That 2 cs, 1 kill and 4 assists will be more than enough to catch up items as everyone else. Of course.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

you get gold income items... support items are overly gold efficient and once you get sight stone wards are free (800 gold for the item, endless amount of wards /recharges ) it pays for it self

core item on support item 3092 2200 gold item 3401 2200 gold item 3069 2450 gold all provides passives, stats, regen , actives, and gold income

a support really only has 3 core items they have to have

their gold income item, their sightstone and boots item 3092 2200 + item 2045 1600 + item 1001 300 for 4100 gold

yes you need more items but the items you get arent core and are situational

as compared to an adc who majority of the time needs item 3031 3600 gold ( thats one item )

ap mages item 3089 3800 gold

and neither of those items finish the core builds for those champs

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

Poorly thought out logic. The time it takes to reach that level of gold, a decent cs score would have gotten there 10 minutes ago- without kills. The gold income on these items are nothing compared to actual cs'ing. With, what, 20ish gold for Frost Queens Reclaim (with a cool down mind you), a cool down on Face of the Mountain (max is 4) and 5 gold for being near a minion with Talisman of Ascension, that gold is NOTHING compared to actual cs'ing (mind you those are at max rank. Even less at younger versions). These items do not help much at all! By the time one finishes Ruby Sightstone, every other champion would have been, just from cs, would be close to finishing their third item.

Now mind you that this is just based upon cs. If we factor kills, that would both increase the gold on the killer and decrease on the deceased but that is even worse for supports as they are suppose to let the ADC get the kill (meaning they get the assist which is less gold). Those "core Items" are just in the meta and do not help Support be a gold sufficient at all.

A support has to waste their gold on a gold income item, because selfish ADC, which rarely balances out in a decent game length (30 minutes). Mountain? No. That needs another ally to proc. Reclaim? Cools down would be in the way and you need to poke constantly to get full benefits. Talisman? Not in this time frame, never. Gold is low on Support.

That isn't to mention that these items may be "core items" but they do not help the actual build. Defensive items (to keep you alive)? Health, amour and mr means nothing if you cannot not deal the punishment. Because by the time you finally get to building armour, mr, or health, everyone else already has offensive items to crush that. Say that is your 3rd item (Not including boots). By the time you finish your first item of defense, the enemy has 3 items and building a fourth. Just getting Locket of Iron Solari means nothing if your enemy has 300 + AD/AP.

Gold is not sufficient with supports at all. Merely getting the items puts supports behind to everyone else, like marksmen getting all the cs didn't do that enough as is.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20162 votes

item 3092 also gives 2 gold per 10 seconds not just the gold income from doing damage ...

item 3401 2 gold per 10 seconds with out the relic charge to execute a minion

theArtifactsNov 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dslyMIFI,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T04:34:25.281+0000)

also gives 2 gold per 10 seconds not just the gold income from doing damage ...

2 gold per 10 seconds with out the relic charge to execute a minion

Don't forget the mastery passive that gives (I think) 3 gold per minion killed by a nearby ally.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20162 votes

i didnt i added it in another comment , its called bandit... it gives +1 gold for every unit you dont last hit and +10 gold on autos to enemies for melee champs +3 gold for ranged with a 5 second cool down...

now lets say you are ranged and you proc the +3 every 5 seconds that is 3x12=36 gold a min

theArtifactsNov 15, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dslyMIFI,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T04:52:01.631+0000)

i didnt i added it in another comment , its called bandit... it gives +1 gold for every unit you dont last hit and +10 gold on autos to enemies for melee champs +3 gold for ranged with a 5 second cool down...

now lets say you are ranged and you proc the +3 every 5 seconds that is 3x12=36 gold a min

And so with the +1 gold per minion killed and lets say a modest 80% CS rate from your adc.. that's a fair amount of gold considering we haven't included any from the gold making items. I'd say supports aren't so hurtin' in the bank after all! Hopefully others read this and agree.

You and I don't agree on many things but this is certainly one of them.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

yea but you know me and how im viewed by the community im gonna get hate just because

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

Ah yes. 2 gold per 10 seconds. A loving 12 gold per minute. No minion or monster in the jungle can beat that gold income upon death. Best source of gold income right here.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

supports in general are meant t buff/ peel/ protect , stun , cc enemies they arent meant to be damage carries

dark100dark100Nov 15, 20161 votes

The problem is this is boring. I play support for a long time and S6 was the most boring season from support perspective.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

and thats fine... but it wasnt due to gold income...

i have mained support since season 2 .. and remember the days of getting heart of gold and philosopher stone , no sightstone had to buy all wards, no trinket no one else helped with wards at all so you were legit limited to 4 inventory slots due to having to have sight wards and pink wards at all time... let alone buying oracles to clear wards

Mysticman89Nov 15, 20162 votes

So what if supports can make the same amount of gold as someone csing?

Why would someone bother csing in the first place, if they could get comparable gold without the mechanical stress of last hitting? Are there mechanisms stopping people from benefiting from the support gold and csing?

Would a change that shifted the meta to two duo lanes and a solo be a good change? What about one that shifted the meta to a 5 person 4 support lane?

These are things riot needs to be very wary of if they make any major changes to support gold/xp incomes.

theArtifactsNov 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

So what if supports can make the same amount of gold as someone csing?

Why would someone bother csing in the first place, if they could get comparable gold without the mechanical stress of last hitting? Are there mechanisms stopping people from benefiting from the support gold and csing?

Would a change that shifted the meta to two duo lanes and a solo be a good change? What about one that shifted the meta to a 5 person 4 support lane?

These are things riot needs to be very wary of if they make any major changes to support gold/xp incomes.

If a support can make the same gold without csing as a person who is csing there would be an influx of very off meta supports due to more powerful champions simply going in lane to bully and seeing no drawback for doing so. Supports are built to provide utility and peel for the most part with a bit of poke on some of them. That's what they're meant for and their kit provides enough that along with the lower cost support items they don't need much to stay on par for their job.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

so its kinda like the gold income level and lower damage items a support can get efficiently kinda allows for their kits to have the amount of utility, poke , cc etc they have "in check"

theArtifactsNov 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dslyMIFI,comment-id=0000000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T05:02:23.295+0000)

so its kinda like the gold income level and lower damage items a support can get efficiently kinda allows for their kits to have the amount of utility, poke , cc etc they have "in check"

Little bit yep!

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20162 votes

by the time someone has 300 ad they have to be well into mid game going into late game where turrets, kills , neutral objectives have been taken... and if you take turrets the entire team gets gold , if your a support and good and you have over a 50% kill participation you get gold too from asst. and there is the bandit mastery which gives bonus gold for auto attacks on enemies... and +1 gold for every cs you dont last hit...

oh and there are gold income runes as well

dark100dark100Nov 15, 20161 votes

You don't understand the support problem at all. I play supp, and it is easy to get xp or gold. But for what?

The problem everybody knows but no-one talks about: the presence problem.

Early game presence is weak: in the past you were able to get kills on bot without jungler help. Now because of the strong regen/heal abilities, you cannot do anything in early game unless the other bot lane is stupid. It is nice to reduce the enemy hp by 80%, but they run back under tower, regen back in two minutes and your efforts are meaningless. So trading after some games are very boring, since decent supports knows how to protect themselves and the adc (that is their role). Summary: early game is boring unless the enemy does stupid things (e.g. no warding).

Mid game presence: this is where most supports shine. The problem is that mid game last for 10 minutes. So from a 40 minute game you can enjoy a 10 minute part. Congratulations riot.

Late game presence is weak: your 1.5 sec stun is meaningless against 10000 hp tanks, your skillshots can be avoided by items the others bought (protobelt, etc.). So what can you do? Warding, initiate a teamfight, and hoping to catch somebody with cc, but if the team cannot capitalize, these are meaningless.

In the end you feel in the majority of the time you cannot influence the game. You have NO choices, you need to adapt the team choices. You can only HOPING that a team is able to capitalize on a good CC. I just saw some stream recently, and the top laner said that olaf annoys me, I kill it, and he did it. When I am annoyed by a karma, what can I do?

So what supports need: tools for having a greater presence. What about a consumable item (only supports can buy it), which allows destroying an item in the enemy inventory? Frightening isn't it? But that would give supports a presence they need. Even though they still cannot kill anybody, but they could influence games :)

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

no i understand support just fine i have played it since season 2... soo 1st wrong statement.

supports have tons of pressence and they are meant to fall off late cuz they arent building damage... if you havent notice all the generic supports (none ap mage supports like brand, lux, velkoz etc ) have tons of front loaded damage ( sona q for one, braums q lvl 1 etc) they are made to have impact and presence early game and get out scaled naturally by champs who for one have higher experience and levels... but go ahead and tell me that my sona with item 3504 item 3092 item 3100 with a power cord proc cant do damage. and a support also provides presence by being able to shield, heal , buff, debuff cc, etc

a janna shield with some ap with item 3504 and windspeakers blessing is quite strong and makes who ever she shields a bigger threat.

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

Sona is not a good example because she is broken. For a support, she reaches mid lane mage burst and even more annoying than Annie as she is auto targeted abilities except for ult, which is so quick, dodging is hard. Is she over power? No. Broken? Yes, very much so. Sona is literally the only Primary support champion that can do fantastic in combat. Using her specifically does not help the other supports, who do not even comparable offensive abilities.

Braum. It is not that Braum is stong (Or that he is not) but rather his q is the only non-ult offensive ability he has. So natural his q would deal more damage because it is the only damage dealing item in his kit. That and with his passive, players can take advantage of that and stun the mess out of everyone. Braum is more so passive strong than ability strong, but admittedly his q is good.

But, um, here is the thing. Those are just two supports. We need ALL supports (Primary supports anyway) to be included in this. So the second you are not those two, expect to fall off everywhere. Linche Bane would only work on Sona and Ardent Censor works for all healing based champions (Shield based as well...) but that in itself is limited.

You are dependent on a team to really use your crowd control. Landing a stun mean nothing if your team does not follow up. You cannot just follow your team member around with this giant map. There could be a minion wave approaching a turret. Maybe you want to ward dragon. Maybe you are just trying to walk to lane. When a support gets caught or even isolated from their team, their chances of living are low (unless you are Janna-- but even then if she is bursted)

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

sona has one damage ability ... Q

yes her ult does scale with ap but its not primarily there for damage, more for her stun

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

Then you have never played against a good AP Sona. I have seen that build and play style more than support Sona build. As regards of her 3 basic abilities, yes, her q is the only damaging spell. But her ult does deal damage. 150/250/350 (50% AP). Yeah no. That hurts if you are less than 1,500HP. Not to mention the follow up of her q and passive. Yeah... That hurts and burst is strong on her.

You are correct about the ult being their for stun, but the damage and ratio is good... enough for AP Sona to be a thing.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

I MAIN SONA ... WAS CHAMP I MAIN WAS SONA SINCE SEASON 2 TRY AGAIN.

Ark SorcererNov 16, 20161 votes

There is more than one way to play Sona. I can tell you, AP Sona is powerful, broken, and I hate it. Just because you mained a champion does not mean you have mastered her or all possible play styles. Example: Tahm Kench. There is top lane Tahm, and there is support Tahm. Two different play styles. One is a tanky soloist, the other is a tank non soloist.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dslyMIFI,comment-id=000000000000000000030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-16T01:19:19.738+0000)

There is more than one way to play Sona. I can tell you, AP Sona is powerful, broken, and I hate it. Just because you mained a champion does not mean you have mastered her or all possible play styles. Example: Tahm Kench. There is top lane Tahm, and there is support Tahm. Two different play styles. One is a tanky soloist, the other is a tank non soloist.

so question for you? is this your troll/smurf account or your main?

Ark SorcererNov 16, 20161 votes

Haven't played Sona. Fought her though. Seen both builds and talked with those Sonas. I know where the strength comes from. Don't look at me. I play champions as the 'meta' dictates, though I may get 2 items that works on the champion but people wouldn't normally get (Say Liandra's Torment on Sejuani)

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 16, 20161 votes

if you are gonna speak on a champ as far as what they do and dont do then your history of game play and champs experience effects your point of view... hence makes you bias... we are all bias to some degree, sometimes unknowingly. and for someone who has played sona over 1500 games or so would have a more understanding over her then someone who hasnt played sona... which you claim you havent.

OutdatedNov 15, 20161 votes

The grading metrics appear to be pretty simplified. It seems like we could have some smarter metrics like reaction time, ability use count during combat with multiple opponents, etc. I'm sure there are even more esoteric metrics tied to higher skill level like maintaining a certain distance from enemy champs during lane. Better players just react more quickly to charges and "hover" at the edge of engagement range.

but in terms of gameplay; the meta is too entrenched.

there are good reasons support remains the least popular role by a wide margin. Best just stick to the support-love circlejerk posts.

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

Well, the meta is one huge factor why supporting is unfavorable. In the meta- I have to get Sight Stone - one slot, (Boots as well - two slots), and a gold income item - 3 slots. Half are filled already! So what next? Offensive items? No. Part of the meta is that supports are not "suppose to deal damage and take kills" so that is out. Defensive. Only option. We need to survive. We especially need it with our slow income on Sighstone and gold income (Yes I am aware that you can get "The Eye of..." so you have one more option) so we are in the dust and offensive and Defense so we are always behind. Riots new "Fun items" does not stop this factor.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

lets say a typical mage support build

item 2301 item 2045 item 3117 item 3107 item 3190 item 3504 lets say a typical mage support build

total gold cost is 2200 +1600+900+2100+2200+2300 =11300 gold

typical adc/marksmen build

item 3006 1100 item 3031 3600 item 3036 2700 item 3085 2600 item 3072 3700 item 3026 2400

total of 16100 gold

a difference of 4800 gold

and lets not include the gold income that a support gets with bandit mastery and item 2301 or the effective gold income of item 2045 which gives endless wards (3 at a time on the map) and lets just say wards cost 75 gold ( going with old cost of item 3649 ) and you place 25 wards in a game with and it cost you 1600

75gX25=1875 gold you would of spent on wards

coming out 275 gold ahead, not including the hp from ruby sightstone or the passive reducing the active on times by 20% making your actives on item 2301 item 3190 item 3107 lower giving these items an increase in gold efficiency

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

opps forgot to factor in TRINKETs as well... so that effective gold income by sightstone is actually higher

Ark SorcererNov 15, 20161 votes

2 things

Guardian Angel on an Marksmen? Huh?
That may be a 4800 gold difference, but a marksmen could finish that build 30 minutes in a game while supports would take about 45 minutes. Because, I do not know, they have a ~75 cs every 10 minutes and say 3 kills per 10 minutes. That gold adds much much faster than Supports more passive (no cs no kill) gold. You are not factoring TIME. Before you mention it-- assists give less gold than whoever got last hit. 300 gold solid versus some base number / champions assisted. (Say 200. I do not remember the number but it is split like that)

EDIT: You are forgetting whatever Pink Wards are called now. Constant 75 gold right there. Nothing major but something to consider still.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

why wouldnt a squishy champ build a defensive item?

and 2ndly i main support it never takes 45 mins to get full build... try again

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dslyMIFI,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T17:14:43.213+0000)

2 things

Guardian Angel on an Marksmen? Huh?

That may be a 4800 gold difference, but a marksmen could finish that build 30 minutes in a game while supports would take about 45 minutes. Because, I do not know, they have a ~75 cs every 10 minutes and say 3 kills per 10 minutes. That gold adds much much faster than Supports more passive (no cs no kill) gold. You are not factoring TIME. Before you mention it-- assists give less gold than whoever got last hit. 300 gold solid versus some base number / champions assisted. (Say 200. I do not remember the number but it is split like that)

EDIT: You are forgetting whatever Pink Wards are called now. Constant 75 gold right there. Nothing major but something to consider still.

you say pink wards/control wards cost 75 gold and they do... but i looked at your last 3 games as thresh support you bought zero "pink" wards

and placed a total of 41 wards in 3 games for an average of 13.66 wards a game

where i placed 50 wards in 3 games as support including a troll premade game as ashe support for an average of 16.67 wards a game

which is typically lower for me then what i usually place.. if you look at my two blitz games and my malphite support game i have a total of 75 wards placed for an average of 25 a game

Ark SorcererNov 16, 20161 votes

Pink wards I made sure to purchase. In honesty, I keep forgetting about Control Wards. I am more focused on the new support items and usage of them, as well as looking at the support items which stats have changed. I have noted that the new "Control Wards" I have not gotten (because they are not in my custom set but Pinki Wards were). Anyway. Here's a question: Why are you looking up my poor games (where I had struggled do to ms or a poor marksmen-- something you could not know about)? What does my games have to deal with anything about this topic? Or are you committing ad hominem? (Rhetorical question. I know you are. Why else would you bring up my last few horrible games?)

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 16, 20161 votes

i was in regards of how sight stone is effectively a gold income item... where the more you use it... the more effective the gold income aspect of it is... it wasnt your poor games. it was just your last 3 games as support in normal game mode

it wasnt to put you down it was simply to prove how much gold you save by using sight stone instead of buying wards therefore is consider gold income item ...

it wasnt a call on your win or loss, kda etc just simple wards placed.

Moooose3Nov 15, 20161 votes

No. There are support players. I am one of them. I don't want any major changes to the support role, if they did this honestly it'd ruin the game for me. Support is fine as it is imo.