There is no reason for this item to have CDR anymore
It has become far too core because it has such a fat ass amount of stats on it
CDR shouldnt be so readily available on such a core item that is rushed with such a high amount
Removing the CDR would bring much needed balance to alot of champs who abuse it for that sole reason ( ok we get it, the armor pen, and move speed plus AD / HP are the real reason, but you are missing the point )
oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votesLOL NO
Variks the Loyal3 votesThen where would Fighters get CDR from?
? Not good on all of them. Riven and Garen have little use for it.
? Perhaps, but useless in the majority of matchups. In the early game, Health is almost always better than armor. And if you don't have Mana, it's useless, just like Triforce.
? Don't make me laugh. A Juggernaut has no use for such a flimsy, dainty weapon. Lethality is not good for a Fighter.
The Black Cleaver is fine. It is one of the most balanced items available right now. It's designed to be their rush item because it grants all the useful stats a growing Fighter needs.
No one 'abuses' it, because there's nothing here to abuse. It's one of the most balanced items in the game.
SaltyKracka1 votesTank items, duh.
And it's really not balanced. It's suuuuuuper core on just about every AD champion that isn't an ADC, and even some of them build it.
Ralanr2 votesLeave our frozen heart and warmogs alone.
SaltyKracka1 votesFuck leaving them alone, buff them so they actually see some decent use.
Variks the Loyal2 votesTank items, duh.
And it's really not balanced. It's suuuuuuper core on just about every AD champion that isn't an ADC, and even some of them build it.
....
... And that's it.
has it, but any Fighter without Mana can't use it, and it's already really situational because it doesn't offer HP.
is not optimal in the current meta, none will build it.
SaltyKracka1 votesOne of the important things about not having mana? It's supposed to mean that you're not going to feel good about investing into some items.
I see no reason resourceless fighters should have braindead easy access to 40% CDR.
Ralanr3 votesIt's funny because people will build triforce when they have no mana.
SaltyKracka1 votesResourceless champs who would abuse the hell out of sheen procs is why Sheen gives mana in the first place.
BakedLotion3 votesThen where would Fighters get CDR from?
The Black Cleaver is fine. It is one of the most balanced items available right now. It's designed to be their rush item because it grants all the useful stats a growing Fighter needs.
No one 'abuses' it, because there's nothing here to abuse. It's one of the most balanced items in the game.
Wasnt the whole point of cleaver for armor shred? Not for the stats?
I see no reason not to build it on any ad champion, even adcs. This shit is a ball of stats just like old rylais used to be. People didnt buy it for the slow just like people arent buying cleaver for the armor shred
ZephyrDrake1 votesWasnt the whole point of cleaver for armor shred? Not for the stats?
I see no reason not to build it on any ad champion, even adcs. This shit is a ball of stats just like old rylais used to be. People didnt buy it for the slow just like people arent buying cleaver for the armor shred
if i wanted a big ball of stats and nothing else i would be getting 
or 
or 
. Which give me a bunch more stats and a whole lot of other benefits that i could actually care for if i do not care for the armor shred
ZephyrDrake3 votescore item with bunch of stats and gives CDR? why aren't we also removing CDR from or 
or 
? those are core items that a lot of people build and they provide a bunch of stats (in sheen's case the upgraded forms do)... so yeah, no!
SaltyKracka2 votesBecause the point is to trim extraneous stats off of BC so that it isn't just a first item rush for every champion who might ever even think of building AD.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votesITS 50 AD , 300HP and 20% CDR it cost 3100 gold
thats alot of coin for 50 AD
SaltyKracka2 votesAnd the phage passive, and the armor shred, and the HP.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo6 votesand i MENTION THE HP
but items like that cost 200 less (2900) also give AP , MANA REGEN, CDR, GREVIOUS WOUNDS, MANA ,and a passive that if you get kills or asst you get 20% mana back meaning you can still do more rotations and spells in team fights to do more damage
BUT YEAH 
is the issue not the AP ITEM THAT ALL MAGES BUILD
SaltyKracka1 votes[deleted]
oSEXYPLATYPUSo6 votesits comparable... and the fact that you cant see that is why your argument is wrong and bias and a lot stupid....
SaltyKracka1 votes[deleted]
oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votesno its not... you want cdr removed from an item that has no need for it to be removed when damn never every ap item in the game offers CDR
i provide a counter argument regarding one of the most used items in game among ALL MAGES which is core/rushed and it provides tons of stats for less gold
but that item is ok?
SaltyKracka1 votesIt's not a counter argument. I've said nothing about whether or not Morello's is fine as it is, or the proliferation of CDR amongst AP items (nice conflation of Mage and Support items there, btw). It's just irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is about BC.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votesit is relevant based on the fact its a core item build by a class of champ, has the same/similar cdr, and ITS AN ITEM just the same that BC is...
SaltyKracka1 votesSure, it's a neat comparison.
But it's not the matter at hand. Which is that BC could stand to be niche'd up quite a bit.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votesit is NICHED... it is only core on a hand ful of champs
unlike MORELLOS which is CORE ON ALL AP MAGES
expect for a handful of champs
champs that BC is core on
champs its situational on
so we are talking about an item that 8 champs have to have it and another 7 that is situational on them
ZephyrDrake2 votesok, let's also give it more armor shred and more HP along with more AD are you ok with that? yes? good! no? then sorry but no!
SaltyKracka1 votesMore AD and more HP I can see.
ZephyrDrake2 votesMore AD and more HP I can see.
oh boy! you just made an item that people will rush with every single character in existence that builds AD! congrats!
SaltyKracka1 votesMmmmmmayyyyybe. Either way, it wouldn't be an item that also increased their ability to spam their spells at me.
Besides, we could use a little more beef in the game.
ZephyrDrake2 votesMmmmmmayyyyybe. Either way, it wouldn't be an item that also increased their ability to spam their spells at me.
Besides, we could use a little more beef in the game.
so you prefer to make the item be truly broken just because "oh noes someone has CDR!" the item is meant to give CDR, it's meant for AD casters. Sorry but it is good that you are not part of the balance team in the slightest
SaltyKracka1 votesAh yes, because adjusting stats would clearly make the item "truly broken"...how?
Do tell, oh brave prognosticator.
ZephyrDrake1 votesAh yes, because adjusting stats would clearly make the item "truly broken"...how?
Do tell, oh brave prognosticator.
"adjusting stats" sorry but no, you aren't trying to adjust anything you are just trying to get rod of CDR of an item who is bought for the armor shred and the CDR. Adjusting stats would mean lowering how much HP or AD it gives with maybe a some price decrease. That is how you do stat adjusting on items. Not "let's get rid of one of the main reasons people build this item"
Ralanr1 votesWhen I get it, I get it for the CDR, health, and AD.
Ultra Rapid Fyre2 votesWhen I get it, I get it for the CDR, health, and AD.
i know... that the point of the sarcasm... people buy it because it has so much CDR on champions who abuse that high CDR stat compiled with how loaded the item is as a whole. There is no downfall to rushing it.
CDR is already too available, it shouldnt be stacked onto an item that already benefits every other aspect of a champion
This Is Your Dad1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ultra Rapid Fyre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dqA1nAEE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-28T04:21:15.351+0000)
i know... that the point of the sarcasm... people buy it because it has so much CDR on champions who abuse that high CDR stat compiled with how loaded the item is as a whole. There is no downfall to rushing it.
CDR is already too available, it shouldnt be stacked onto an item that already benefits every other aspect of a champion
I do see your point, it is super core on most ad champions. Illaoi, garen , riven darius, ect ect.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesas soon as we remove the CDR from all the AP ITEMS
SaltyKracka1 votesI can but agree. It's such a goddamn massive stat stick, and the worst part about it is that there's no downside to rushing it as a first item, because it already counters what should be the counter to a champion rushing a big AD/CDR item (i.e. armor).
Ultra Rapid Fyre1 votesyall can downvote this all day long and it doesnt change the fact that BC is completely overloaded. There is a reason that the majority of top PLAYED champions rush this item, there is a reason its so core on so many champs and its because its stats are completely overloaded.
Removing the CDR off this item would still leave it in an extremely healthy state and the only reason to keep the CDR there or to even downvote this idea is because you are someone who abuses this item and requires everything you use and play to be overloaded to feel good about yourself. This item shouldnt have CDR on it, period