EHP vs. %Pen/%Damage

ecneregilleb·12/31/2014, 2:58:34 PM·1 votes·503 views

I've seen a few threads popping up regarding Tanks, HP, and %Pen/%Damage items and I thought I'd throw in my two-cents.


First off, I'd like to remind everyone that Blade of the Ruined Kingitem 3153 and Liandry's Tormentitem 3151 exist for one reason only: Warmog'sitem 3083.

During one of the crazier pre-seasons, item 3083 became quite popular amongst a very WIDE variety of champions that really had no business purchasing such a huge HP boost, but instead of nerfing it like they did with everything else that got out of control back then, they decided to go a different route and created a couple items that countered it quite well. Thus item 3153 &item 3151 were born.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't remember that last time I saw a item 3083 bought in a game, tank or otherwise. It's kind of silly how long it's been. So now here we are with two rather decently strong items that exist to counter an item that is no longer frequently used, and the game is somewhat balanced around their existence as well. That seems backwards to me.

The argument that those items work slowly is invalid in my eyes; no matter which way you slice it, %HP Damage is still %HP damage. item 3153+item 3035 will shred through thousands of HP in no time. item 3151+item 3135 causes the same effect, except it's more of a melting sensation.


I read some threads with more information about EHP (Effective Hit Points, for those who are unaware) and what that means for Tanks and their current state in the game. I'll link those here and here.

I personally agree with a lot of the points the OP's bring up in those discussions. I also agree that a %Bonus HP item needs to return in order for Tanks to truly shine. Frankly, I'm baffled that it was overlooked (or just straight up dropped) as a desirable stat for Tank itemization coming into this pre-season. [See: Spirit of the Ancient Golem]

4 Comments

karruck12/31/2014, 3:38:51 PM1 votes

Ok my view,I have Taric that i play when i am helping my wife with her practice and his heal is dependent on a %hp he has so item 3083 and item 3084 are staples for good reason not to mention item 3075 and item 3110 .Just my thoughts and I am not a pro so take it with caution

Kuroi8612/31/2014, 11:32:13 PM1 votes

Hm, lets math. If my numbers are wrong let me know. I can get confused when running a lot of numbers. Not going to count runes/masteries. item 3110 100 armor item 3047 25 armor and -10% damage from basic attacks item 3083 800 health item 3143 500 health 70 armor

lvl 18 Chogath has 1934 health and 88.4 armor full stacks means 900 health

Total of 4134 health and 283.4 armor.

item 3153 25 AD and 8% current health in physical damage item 3035 40 AD and ignores 35% of targets armor item 3031 80 AD item 3046 no AD Obviously this is a discussion of %damage and % pen so not calculating crit.

lvl 18 Ashe has 100 AD

Total of 245 AD + 8% of current health and ignores 35% of armor

283.4 armor with 35% negated comes out to 184.21

Giving cho an EHP of 7615.2414 for a grant total of 11749.2414

Meaning first strike would deal 245+ 939.939312 Or 1185 damage (rounding up from here, the decimals are getting a bit big.)

Health-Damage 11749-1185 10564-1090 9474-1003 8471-923 7548-849 6699-780 5919-719 5200-661 4539-608 3931-559 3372-515 2857-474 At this point ^ AD is now higher than %damage 2383-436 1947-401 1546-369 1177-339 838-312 526-287 239...

Actually, that seemed to take longer than expected. Mk, hang on while I go back through and take a look with crit calculated in.

Rebonack12/31/2014, 11:40:27 PM1 votes

I'm glad my EHP analysis has gotten people evaluating the question of %Pen from another angle. Yay constructive conversation!

It seems silly to me not to have a soft-counter to %Pen in the form of a bonus HP multiplying item available for defensive itemization. Especially since item 3153, item 3128, and item 3151 all exist as counter-counters already.