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Kog's play-style is 'spell-weaving ADC who scales late'

Rebonack·Oct 20, 2016·2 votes·635 views

According to the most recent patch playtest topic thing.

So, y'know. Like Corki or Ezreal.

Bit of a problem, though. Only one of Kog's skills actually scales with attack damage. In fact, his only appreciable steroid scales with attack speed as far as ADC Kog is concerned. Which means Kog wants to be attacking as quickly as possible. And with his R dealing absolutely anemic damage to anything above 40%, casting it will in most cases hurt Kog's DPS come late game.

To hammer this home even more clearly, Trinity and Bork are both mid game focused items. While Kog is supposedly a late game hyper carry. Does anyone else see a bit of a problem here? The last time Trinity Kog was decent, Trinity had crit and Bork had higher OnHit damage, both helping to prop up Kog's late game scaling. Itemization has changed and Kog's kit (and base stats) have gotten worse.

Simply put, Kog's kit is a mess in its current form.

C'mon, Riot.

Kog players have been calling for dialog for quite a while now. We want to be able to discuss Kog's direction and future with you guys. I know Kog is one of the least popular champions in the game, but there are still people who love him in spite of his quirks. Throw us a bone, here.

13 Comments

YumeiiOct 20, 20161 votes

You know, I've never really felt like Kog worked all too well as a spellweaver, whether we're talking now, during machinegun (his awkward puberty phase?), or "classic" Kog'Maw. His high points have always been when W was active and that meant lots of straight-up autoattacking and/or kiting. You know... not spellweaving.

It takes 1.5 seconds between each spellblade to get the next one, and waiting that period of time to weave in his E or his Q (and another 1.5 seconds to get the other one) could be disastrous to his ability to keep up with a target or survive, especially when enemies are running away or closing in... either of which is pretty much what they should be doing in the first place since the alternative is standing there.

I never liked getting Trinity on his old/current versions simply cause you really only get the spellblade to proc once. Maybe twice. On W activation and maybe on a random R mid-way through the fight. A third time, maybe, if the fight is long. What's more, the ability that does the most weaving is likely to be the R, which we all know kills your mana pool (possibly faster than it kills your target). Compare to actual ADC spellweavers Corki, Ezreal, Lucian who have low cost abilities to use and/or have spellweaving baked into their kit, and who suffer from only autoattacking.

And like you said, taking the time to cast something in between just hurts his damage output due to the aforementioned need to constantly autoattack. A lot of Kog's damage is coming off the on-hits from W and/or BotRK, which isn't amplified by spellblade. The typical builds tend to focus attack speed more than damage so it's not like the spellblade is even as powerful as it could be with more AD.

tl;dr I can agree with their idea of Kog'Maw being a late-scaling monster (with mixed results in practice)... but I don't think they've ever made him a good spellweaver.

RebonackOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You know, I've never really felt like Kog worked all too well as a spellweaver, whether we're talking now, during machinegun (his awkward puberty phase?), or "classic" Kog'Maw. His high points have always been when W was active and that meant lots of straight-up autoattacking and/or kiting. You know... not spellweaving.

It takes 1.5 seconds between each spellblade to get the next one, and waiting that period of time to weave in his E or his Q (and another 1.5 seconds to get the other one) could be disastrous to his ability to keep up with a target or survive, especially when enemies are running away or closing in... either of which is pretty much what they should be doing in the first place since the alternative is standing there.

I never liked getting Trinity on his old/current versions simply cause you really only get the spellblade to proc once. Maybe twice. On W activation and maybe on a random R mid-way through the fight. A third time, maybe, if the fight is long. What's more, the ability that does the most weaving is likely to be the R, which we all know kills your mana pool (possibly faster than it kills your target). Compare to actual ADC spellweavers Corki, Ezreal, Lucian who have low cost abilities to use and/or have spellweaving baked into their kit, and who suffer from only autoattacking.

And like you said, taking the time to cast something in between just hurts his damage output due to the aforementioned need to constantly autoattack. A lot of Kog's damage is coming off the on-hits from W and/or BotRK, which isn't amplified by spellblade. The typical builds tend to focus attack speed more than damage so it's not like the spellblade is even as powerful as it could be with more AD.

tl;dr I can agree with their idea of Kog'Maw being a late-scaling monster (with mixed results in practice)... but I don't think they've ever made him a good spellweaver.

Basically, yeah.

Ezreal has his Q for spellblade. Corki has his R, which has a negligible cast time and mana cost. Neither of them are nearly as reliant on attack speed as Kog, so they can get away with it pretty easily. Trinity Kog, even before the remake, was basically making the best of a bad situation. Kog's itemization has always been really awkward.

'Trinity user' and 'late game hyper carry' are honestly a contradiction in terms. If Riot really wanted to pursue the 'ALL THE DAMAGES!' carry niche for Kog, the best way to do it would be to give his W some kind of Crit interaction. Maybe even giving him a new passive to that effect. Personally, I would rather see more focus on Kog's resist shred since I think that could make for a more interesting identity, but there ARE ways to make Kog work as a Marksmen.

KomoririOct 20, 20161 votes

Kog'Maw is a long range sustained damage mage.

RebonackOct 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Calamity Mary,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djzsEhLd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-20T18:23:00.535+0000)

Kog'Maw is a long range sustained damage mage.

In the same Q&A I was referencing in the first post, we were informed that if AP Kog is ever deemed 'good' by Riot, they'll nuke it from orbit with nerfs. This suggests that maybe Kog needs a real VGU.

KomoririOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

In the same Q&A I was referencing in the first post, we were informed that if AP Kog is ever deemed 'good' by Riot, they'll nuke it from orbit with nerfs. This suggests that maybe Kog needs a real VGU.

And exactly that is the reason why their game sucks by now :^), eliminating alternative playstyles until everything fits into a meta.

RebonackOct 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Calamity Mary,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djzsEhLd,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-10-20T18:42:24.082+0000)

And exactly that is the reason why their game sucks by now :^), eliminating alternative playstyles until everything fits into a meta.

It is, ostensibly, because AP Kog is 'the definition of unhealthy'. Whatever the hell that means.

KomoririOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It is, ostensibly, because AP Kog is 'the definition of unhealthy'. Whatever the hell that means.

Can't be unhealthier than a Yasuo.

RebonackOct 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Calamity Mary,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djzsEhLd,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-20T19:47:24.207+0000)

Can't be unhealthier than a Yasuo.

No, see, it's the exact opposite.

AP Kog can bypass Yasuo's Windwall from well beyond Yasuo's dash range. Clearly that's unhealthy, as many Mages as possible need to bow before Samurai Bob.

Mig89Oct 20, 20161 votes

Samurai jack

RebonackOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Samurai jack

Don't slander Jack's good name by comparing Yasuo to him.

Mig89Oct 20, 20161 votes

~~that show was garbage~~

lilpokflufOct 20, 20161 votes

I always thought he was a walking turret

RebonackOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I always thought he was a walking turret

That's basically what Riot turned him into with the rework.

Then they un-reworked him.

Kog has always had a really awkward kit pulling him in three directions at once. He really DOES need a rework that focuses him on something specific. Riot just did an iffy job of it.

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