Veig's ult should be a skillshot

dontspinbutwin·May 14, 2019·11 votes·4,509 views

I know he has the punishable early game, but late game is beyond frustrating to fight against. The 2 second stun wall is ridiculous enough as it is, but throwing on an infinitely scaling execution ult that can't miss really sucks, especially when all he needs late game is a q and r, and even if he misses his q theres a chance you still die with r alone.

So proposition to make his R a skillshot that only hits champs. There shouldn't be much difference to normal veigar gameplay, but at least some frustration would be removed.

46 Comments

AeroWaffleMay 14, 201910 votes

If you're dying to R alone from Veigar then you've let him get seriously over-farmed.

VanTurinoMay 14, 20196 votes

Or let the game go on far too long.

Hayaishi2May 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Or let the game go on far too long.

Oh yes lemme go teach my team how to end the game in soloqueue yes.

VanTurinoMay 15, 20191 votes

If you find away Let me know! The everyday struggles in the solo queue :P

SucctionMay 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you're dying to R alone from Veigar then you've let him get seriously over-farmed.

No. It's not possible to die to his ult alone.

His W does more damage. Ult only starts really hurting once you start getting low.

Assuming full hp, his W will and does deal more damage. You can't get one shot by R unless you're like level 3 at 30 minutes

ZXImmortalMay 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you're dying to R alone from Veigar then you've let him get seriously over-farmed.

Well maybe he isnt playing mid and his dog shit mid let him farm

5050BSMay 14, 20198 votes

He already has 3 skill shots. If they made his R a skill shot then he would need a lot of bonus damage added to make up for it.

OR His Ult just damages everything in its Path

If you dont like Viegars Ult, what about Syndra's?

What about Vi's? or Vlad's? Or Mord's?

dontspinbutwinMay 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

He already has 3 skill shots. If they made his R a skill shot then he would need a lot of bonus damage added to make up for it. 3 skillshots, yes, with one "skillshot" being one of the game's greatest zoning/cc tools, with very little thought needed behind it except "place in between veig and threat". His q moves at high missle speed, but it is possible to miss it, but if it hits, chunks hard. Decent burst, so you have to work if you want the burst. Not gonna really complain about his W. The skillshot hurts, but can be easily avoided. The skillshot only becomes a problem when paired with the stun, but usually q r is enough to burst a squishy. If its a tank, thats when the w is needed. OR His Ult just damages everything in its Path ....Why would that be needed? That's like saying Darius's ult damage got gutted (which believe it or not, did happen) when he got reworked, so his ult should be an aoe burst. Fk no, his ult has it's purpose, and still hurts tons even after the damage nerf on it (mid to late game). Changing veig's ult to that type of skillshot seems like a unneeded buff to clear waves....unless you mean it also passes through champs, in which I would say thats even more broken then it's current state. If you dont like Viegars Ult, what about Syndra's? Syndra's ult is annoying, but it isn't immediate burst: at max damage, it comes in 6 chunks over a short time, but not as short as veigar's burst. In a 1v1, damage outputs are the same, but in teamfights, supports and such can shield this burst far more easily, as opposed to trying to react to the split second veig ults you.

Furthermore, she doesn't infinitely scale. She only has 1 disengage, and its either a crappy knockback or a stun thats hard to hit if they're on you (or even if they aren't on you). Veig can panic and press q r and half the time it'll work. If he isn't dead in 1 second, nothing stopping him from dropping the cage.

What about Vi's? or Vlad's? Or Mord's? Vi, the champion, goes towards the character. Vi, is killable. Furthermore, the ult itself doesnt do much damage (around 400 max full build). It's her combo that hurts, combining a mini charge q with her w and e auto resets. If you make the argument that if she builds AD to utilize her ad scalings, then she herself can easily be bursted. The ult itself is uninterruptible, but doesnt make her invulnerable. In a 2v1, it might be a nuisance, but in a 5v5, it would be easy to deal with vi if she suddenly ults your adc (everyone just focuses on her immediately, burst her down, turn attention to the rest of the enemy). Source: played vi a crapton on my other account. Her ult is best used as a gapcloser, not as burst damage.

Vlad's ult... is a skillshot... without execution damage or high burst.... with the requirement being vlad needs to be reletively close to the enemy. Furthermore, the damage is delayed, meaning shields or heals or parries can render the ult useless.

Morde's ult isn't .5 second burst, its damage over time. Yes, its DoT for a long period of time and players who are alone suffer, but its a team game. shields are a thing. Hell, certain champ can deal with the ult with their skills alone. If morde ult's me as urgot, i can just e to negate some decent damage from the ult, or I can try to lifesteal some hp back to prevent dying. However, that same 300 damage shield isn't really going to save an urgot from a veig, nor can I lifesteal the instant burst.

Rather than make these comparisons (with syndra being the closest), I think the cloest example would be riven's prenerf ult around season 4. It was high execution damage (at the time), and came out near instaneously, and back then, flash dodging it was considered godlike. But riot realised how difficult it was for players to dodge it, so they lowered the missle speed. Now, players can dodge it.

Before the argument comes out of "oh then lower the ult's missle speed", riven's ult is a skillshot. Veig is point and click.

ChaosReynMay 16, 20191 votes

To be fair, Syndra's should have something done about it...she can miss literally 3 Qs in a row, miss her W, hit only the knockback (no orbs) on her E as you try to gapclose, and still press R to finish someone at like 80% hp.

At least Veigar's can't do that anymore. If you're dying to Veigar, you're more than likely dying to his Q or W than his ult if you're eating a one-shot.

SuicidePlankMay 14, 20195 votes

Would love to make Sylas R a skillshot too.

Pika FoxMay 15, 20191 votes

Wouldnt work. His ult copies an ult effect, and does nothing on its own. Would make 0 sense to make it a skillshot, given he would then potentially need to land 2 skillshots for his ult to do anything if the stolen ability is a skillshot. It would need to do something on its own, like force the targets ult to max cooldown to be balanced.

SuicidePlankMay 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T02:18:07.503+0000)

Wouldnt work. His ult copies an ult effect, and does nothing on its own. Would make 0 sense to make it a skillshot, given he would then potentially need to land 2 skillshots for his ult to do anything if the stolen ability is a skillshot. It would need to do something on its own, like force the targets ult to max cooldown to be balanced.

Nah. Stealing an Ult is very impactfull and enough to justify being a skillshut.

Pika FoxMay 15, 20191 votes

Its literally not.

SuicidePlankMay 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T02:40:53.163+0000)

Its literally not.

That's your opinion and okay that its wrong.

Pika FoxMay 15, 20192 votes

Its factually not though.

Any ultimate he takes will never be as good as the champion he takes it from, entirely because their ult is designed to be kit cohesive, where as his kit is not their kit.

Ontop of that, plenty of ults are skillshots. You already need to press a button before you can ult, so you cant ult on demand. Add to that a chance to miss the skillshot, and you now need to land a skillshot just to get the chance to use a delayed ultimate that doesnt mesh with your kit.

Now if the ult is a skillshot, you now have to again land ANOTHER skillshot just to do literally ANYTHING with a DELAYED ultimate that is not designed for your kit, and thus is less effective.

Add to this the enemy being a Zoe, a Nidalee, a Jayce, Udyr, any other stance/form champion and youre left with needing a skillshot check for an ultimate that is not even an ultimate.

JefftiffyMay 14, 20194 votes

As a Veigar main its already damn hard enough having to basically spam Q to farm and have to land E to reliably hit W. If I have to hit ult with skill shot too with basically guaranteed low mana might as well not even play him anymore already hard enough to land most of my kit on mobile champions with the E grounding effect. Might as well delete Veigar from the game at that point. It's one of his only guaranteed damage sources and is only really scary if you are low or let him farm too much.

BârdMay 14, 20194 votes

This isn't season 3.

Veigar's ult never kills anything by itself.

If you die to it, you didn't die because "WOW VEIGAR PRESSED R FUCKING OP ZERO COUNTERPLAY".

You died because you tanked every spell in his kit.

Ahri BakaMay 14, 20193 votes

Agreed Making it a skillshot by increasing the range will be really a healthy change that will make the champion in a really healthy state and better in higher elos

boricCentaur1May 14, 20193 votes

Fun fact veigar's r does less damage then his fucking w on a full health target.

Like veigar is fine.

dontspinbutwinMay 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Fun fact veigar's r does less damage then his fucking w on a full health target.

Like veigar is fine.

....his ult is an EXECUTE. The fact that the 2 second delay nuke that is easily avoided in exchange for high burst is even comparable to an execute's damage at full hp proves my point.

Urgot's ult is a good example of an execute. You have a threshold, everyone knows it, and everyone is cautious of it.

Veigar's "execute" can be casually thrown out like annie's q, and do 5 times the damage. I wish I were exaggerating.

Iron Four VeigarMay 15, 20193 votes

If we'd buff the reliability of his other spells like reducing delay of cage with R rank or making Q P&c again then maybe but otherwise no.

Sad TyrantMay 15, 20192 votes

That would take a ton of power from his kit, making him unbearable to play, and therefore there would be a need to buff him, and where would that missing power go, extra range? Heck No

it'd go straight to scaling, damage, and the rest of his kit, making it easier to obliterate you. Imagine if E was INSTANT like it used to be, imagine if it was easier to farm with his Q, Imagine if W instant gibbed you rather than just chunking you Veigar's Ult is fine the way it is.

Also I'm sick of champs getting the easy way out by flashing or dashing, because making another skill-shot would be another point in mobility creep

dontspinbutwinMay 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-05-15T02:18:55.550+0000)

That would take a ton of power from his kit, making him unbearable to play, and therefore there would be a need to buff him, and where would that missing power go, extra range? Heck No

it'd go straight to scaling, damage, and the rest of his kit, making it easier to obliterate you. Imagine if E was INSTANT like it used to be, imagine if it was easier to farm with his Q, Imagine if W instant gibbed you rather than just chunking you Veigar's Ult is fine the way it is.

Also I'm sick of champs getting the easy way out by flashing or dashing, because making another skill-shot would be another point in mobility creep

....back then, veig's ult did more damage based on the amount of ap the opponent had, and his q, while an on click, was at a much shorter range, and veig couldn't get infinite ap off champs. How would changing the ult to a skillshot make him unbearable to play? The dude has a 2 second stun in his kit, and anyone who knows how to aim it knows its a guaranteed stun (or at least a guaranteed w). It prevents veig players from panic smashing q r when someones on them, and now forces them to at least use 2 braincells to aim their ult (and seeing how fast the missile speed is, would still be able to hit immobile champs or punish champs who are unaware).

Furthermore, mobility is an excellent counter to an immobile burst mage. If a champ can 100-0 me as a tank whos build 2 mr items, then they also need to be able to be deleted from a fight just as fast. Problem is, late game, even if a champ manages to get on veig, nothings stopping him from either q-r ing the champ which kills them (as assassins are squishy and divers have little resistances), or q w e zhonyias r.

"Oh, but veig dies before anything is thrown out, its frustrating and is a problem!" ...thats what it feels like to fight veig. You know how much it sucks dying as an adc at 75% hp bc veig threw out his point click up at you in a teamfight?

TLDR: he would be in a fine spot even if his ult were changed to a skillshot. Zil's q was changed and went from a super bursty caster to a super bursty caster who requires some thought before pressing q. If veig is going to have a 2 second stun and infinate scaling and burst potential, then he at least deserves to have some thought into where he throws his abilities like his q. Riot changed his Q from point click to skillshot bc similar to dfg, it was frustrating to die to a point and click ability. RIot should by then change his ult to a skillshot, as the situation is far worse.

Sad TyrantMay 16, 20191 votes

Zil gained a stun with that change and Yes he could get infinte AP off champions, by killing them

It wouldn't make him completely unbearable to play (except when MOBILITY CREEP cause Zed and other fucks like him, are annoying enough champions already) I'm saying that if they make it a skill shot, the power would have to go elsewhere because POINT CLICK has a power budget attached

When they changed Veigar, what did they do?, they weakened Q in the fact they made it his passive and then they strengthened the passive, and then weakened his ult from 250/375/500 100% AP to 175/250/325 75% AP and removed the AP damage. they took more power from him than they gave and then they would have to give his W a Passive (which they did).

also with the Season 4 changes, what did they do? They added a delay on his E. They Removed 20% AP from his ult, and they made Q a skillshot. They Also increased Q range, changed the cooldown and allowed it to double stack. they Buffed his W, E and R with CD and mana cost. a shifting of power around his kit.

what I'm saying is that power has to go somewhere and that power change in the rest of his abilities may make him unbearable to play against.

dontspinbutwinMay 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T05:05:53.096+0000)

Zil gained a stun with that change and Yes he could get infinte AP off champions, by killing them

It wouldn't make him completely unbearable to play (except when MOBILITY CREEP cause Zed and other fucks like him, are annoying enough champions already) I'm saying that if they make it a skill shot, the power would have to go elsewhere because POINT CLICK has a power budget attached

When they changed Veigar, what did they do?, they weakened Q in the fact they made it his passive and then they strengthened the passive, and then weakened his ult from 250/375/500 100% AP to 175/250/325 75% AP and removed the AP damage. they took more power from him than they gave and then they would have to give his W a Passive (which they did).

also with the Season 4 changes, what did they do? They added a delay on his E. They Removed 20% AP from his ult, and they made Q a skillshot. They Also increased Q range, changed the cooldown and allowed it to double stack. they Buffed his W, E and R with CD and mana cost. a shifting of power around his kit.

what I'm saying is that power has to go somewhere and that power change in the rest of his abilities may make him unbearable to play against.

The power is already there, in the form of a 60% execute.

I'm not saying he is flawless, he has weaknesses... but 60% execution isn't healthy for the game. Thats why the solution to this would either be to nerf his damage or change it to a skillshot, and since that would hurt and wouldn't change the frustration when fighting him, at least change it so it isn't as frustrating for the enemy, but is still strong in the hands of the player.

Sad TyrantMay 16, 20191 votes

No mate, you're not understanding, the power of POINT CLICK WILL GO ELSEWHERE. the Power is already there but it will go elsewhere because a skill-shot is inherently weaker than a Point Click

dontspinbutwinMay 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T05:35:47.266+0000)

No mate, you're not understanding, the power of POINT CLICK WILL GO ELSEWHERE. the Power is already there but it will go elsewhere because a skill-shot is inherently weaker than a Point Click

....Why would the power go elsewhere? Can we stop having compensation buffs and try flat out nerfs? It's what riot did with akali, and now shes bearable to lane against.

I really don't want to see a compensation buff trend. There should be high risk high reward with veig's ult. The high risk is getting into position and risking getting 1 shot while having the risk of missing, with the high reward being able to nuke a single target.

Sad TyrantMay 16, 20191 votes

Because he is balanced the way he is, he is a late game Burster, he fulfills his role in a way that is not abusive. his power budget is full and he has a decent pick rate.

all his abilities are either medium range or heavily delayed, he has to get close enough to unleash his combo and he is squishy enough.

You are asking a Straight Up Nerf on a Balanced Champion, therefore if you want to WEAKEN his Ult there must be COMPENSATION

Pika FoxMay 15, 20191 votes

It would end up being massively buffed if it became a skillshot, you do realize that, right?

dontspinbutwinMay 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-15T02:16:25.012+0000)

It would end up being massively buffed if it became a skillshot, you do realize that, right?

...How? If theres the same damage and same range, and now has the ability to be dodged/abiliity to miss, how would that be a massive buff? It would be a nerf, but only to those who don't know how to aim skillshots. Seeing how veig has a 2 second stun built into hit kit, this change really shouldn't impact many veig mains if they know what they're doing: only impacts those who just like facerolling.

Pika FoxMay 15, 20191 votes

Because it wouldnt be the same damage and same range, given its balanced around being point and click.

dontspinbutwinMay 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T13:17:20.361+0000)

Because it wouldnt be the same damage and same range, given its balanced around being point and click.

...But why wouldn't it be the same range and damage? It's damage is astronomical right now, and it has a really decent range. Those things don't need to be altered.

Pika FoxMay 15, 20191 votes

Because currently ITS BALANCED. If you were to make it a skillshot, that would need to be paired with some kind of buff. Meaning youre looking at it hitting multiple targets, lowered CD, far more range, larger skillshot, the like.

Veigar already has 3 skillshots, all of which are very, very short range, 2 of which have significant delays.

dontspinbutwinMay 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T18:56:09.124+0000)

Because currently ITS BALANCED. If you were to make it a skillshot, that would need to be paired with some kind of buff. Meaning youre looking at it hitting multiple targets, lowered CD, far more range, larger skillshot, the like.

By all means. Tell me how an on click "execute" (that really can "execute" starting at 75% hp) with infinite scaling that can quite literally do 75% of your max hp if you're a squishy champ "balanced"?

Veigar already has 3 skillshots, all of which are very, very short range, 2 of which have significant delays.

...I know you aren't calling his cage short delay. Here's riots very own description: "After a brief delay Veigar twists the edges of space around the target location for 3 seconds, stunning enemies who pass through the perimeter." Even riot doesn't think its long, and if you ever played against it, you know its fast. It simply tells you where the cage will be. To champs with a dash, this gives them time, and to them its "balanced" (to an extent). To immobile champions, its a death sentence, whether they have mr or not.

He needs change, as he suffers the tryndamere case. He either steamrolls or he doesnt, and in that rare case where he's doing mediocre, he will still 1 shot someone.

Pika FoxMay 16, 20191 votes

..... His R is his only point and click, has extremely short range, low damage on its own outside of execute, and is on a stupidly squishy immobile champion whos only defensive action is on a significant delay and can just easily be cleansed or QSSd, making him a free and easy kill.

Seriously, veigar is incapable of killing you with R unless youre sitting at 60% or lower HP, which means you ate 4+ Qs to the face. W can only hit you if you run at him and not expect his E for whatever reason, and given his Es range, you can safely auto him with practically any decently ranged champ and be outside E threat range with just boots 2.

dontspinbutwinMay 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0007000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T04:55:32.250+0000)

..... His R is his only point and click, has extremely short range, low damage on its own outside of execute, and is on a stupidly squishy immobile champion whos only defensive action is on a significant delay and can just easily be cleansed or QSSd, making him a free and easy kill.

...But what about champs who cant build qss or have no cleanse? Like say I'm playing Darius, or Garen, or Morde, or sylas, or ekko, or.... you get the idea.

Seriously, veigar is incapable of killing you with R unless youre sitting at 60% or lower HP, which means you ate 4+ Qs to the face. W can only hit you if you run at him and not expect his E for whatever reason, and given his Es range, you can safely auto him with practically any decently ranged champ and be outside E threat range with just boots 2.

You just admitted that his "execute" can kill you at around 60% hp. That isn't an execute now is it. Thats like if urgot's ult had shorter range but could kill somoene at 60% hp with point and click.
There are other champions in this game. Thats why you see many champs not fight veig if they know when they cant win in lane phase. However, in teamfights, other champions can poke or burst, and it really isn't that difficult for the enemy to huddle around veigar to protect him as he bursts down the enemy frontline.
....So what if I'm not ranged? What if I'm a melee frontline tank whos job is to soak damage? What do I do then when fighting veigar? What do I do if I'm, say, aatrox and he cages around me. Can I still auto him from a distance?

The counter solutions you have to why veigar is "weak" aren't really solutions to everyone: its far too selective. Remember when the only anti burst in the game was zhonyias and adcs complained about rengar or zed? You could say "oh vayne, just get zhonyias for the zed and his ult won't do damage!"

"Oh Toplane main, go play a ranged toplaner to deal with veig's stun!"

"Oh Illaoi, build QSS to deal with veigar's stun!"

"Oh Maokai, stay in prestine condition, and don't get below 60% hp, or you'll get 1 shot by veigar!"

....See how ridiculous that sounds? Yes, the answers you gave work. But similarly to communism, it only works on paper.

Sad TyrantMay 16, 20192 votes

Context, Scenarios to deal with Veigar are inherently different to other champions

Go play Vayne or Quinn TOP Main Yes get Cleanse or Qss on Illaoi OR maybe Just a Fuckton of Tenacity and MR get more MR and Health Maokai Get a Stopwatch Vayne

and Maybe NEXT TIME DON'T FEED THE VEIGAR

dontspinbutwinMay 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=000700000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T06:02:40.599+0000)

Context, Scenarios to deal with Veigar are inherently different to other champions

Go play Vayne or Quinn TOP Main Yes get Cleanse or Qss on Illaoi OR maybe Just a Fuckton of Tenacity and MR get more MR and Health Maokai Get a Stopwatch Vayne

and Maybe NEXT TIME DON'T FEED THE VEIGAR

You realize I was throwing sarcasm out there when I said ranged toplaners right?

Ranged toplaners are a big part on why the toplane meta was cancer (though its slowly stabling right now). Juggernauts, tanks, and even fighters all struggled to be relevent because of champs like quinn, vayne, kennon, karma, viktor, so on. So your solution to a toxic mechanic in this game.... is to make it more toxic?

....So I, the juggernaut, should get a QSS, despite it having 0 synergy with my kit, just because the enemy has an oppressive cc zone? Well golly gee then, why don't tanks in LCS get cleanse or qss? They get cced the most! ....the biggest reason would be it has 0 synergy. If they get cced, their main hope is either their support got mikaels or they have enough resistances..... which brings me to my next point.

There have been times when I've built 200 mr (which is an insane amount, considering how little mr you get with mr items), and still gotten 1 shot by enemy veigars. But fine, lets say I only build mr. Then what about the rest of them? If they have 3 ADs, 1 support, and 1 AP (which is the most common pair in a team), then why should I build so much more MR, when then I'll get blown up faster by everyone else? Even in the LCS, players will sometimes opt to not even build mr because its a waste, and they get prefer to get heavy chunked by the ap damage dealer, as opposed to getting chunked by the rest of their team (ali vs vik was a famous case).

....Get a stopwatch? Really? Theres so many damn flaws to that analogy.

You can't use stopwatch while stunned.
Only thing an adc would build would probably be a GA, with a 5 min cooldown. Strong effect, but after it pops, it's stats are so horrendous that some players opt to just sell it and buy something else while it's on cooldown....unless you mean that they should build a zhonyias, the AP item with 0 use except the 90 second cd active and the armor (which is also granted by GA.
Stopwatch is still only one use. What does the adc do after they use it to save themselves? Just die over and over until they can buy either A. an ap item only for the active, thus wasting a slot, or B. The GA, which is only bought for it's effect, as it's stats are abysmal.

....I've been blown up by 2/5 veigars. A fed veigar simply means he has more gold. Veigs can get fed from CS alone, as can any champ, and they can also stack AP from CS (albeit, much slower). The argument of "Don't feed veigar!" is extremely poor when talking about a scaling champion. When you say "don't feed veigar", what do you even mean? Be passive in lane? He wants that: he wants safe passage to mid-late game. Be aggressive? A smart veig can respect who can kill him, and choose to not cs a bit for the sake of safety, but if the enemy miscalculates, veig can get extra ap and perhaps a kill. Don't let him roam? Letting veig roam isn't too bad of an idea, as his movement speed is low, so he loses much if he ever roams. If the botlane or toplane has great communication, they can effectively waste his time.

Every single example I made was for the sake of revealing how foolish it is, yet you tried to defend every single one. Do you have any idea what you're talking about or no?

Sad TyrantMay 16, 20191 votes

I was taking the Piss

but I mixed in some good advice, TENACITY and MAGIC RESIST.

Bully the Fuck Out of Him, pick a Lane bully, Set him back, and end fast, he can't burst you if he doesn't get Kills or Assists, because if you allow him to get the the late game he is going to fuck you.

Pack some useful champions , Like Morgana, Sivir or Olaf, despite his point click ult mobility is his weakness and people who can get on top of him and get out like Leblanc, Zed and ekko

dontspinbutwinMay 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T09:35:11.236+0000)

I was taking the Piss

but I mixed in some good advice, TENACITY and MAGIC RESIST.

Bully the Fuck Out of Him, pick a Lane bully, Set him back, and end fast, he can't burst you if he doesn't get Kills or Assists, because if you allow him to get the the late game he is going to fuck you.

Pack some useful champions , Like Morgana, Sivir or Olaf, despite his point click ult mobility is his weakness and people who can get on top of him and get out like Leblanc, Zed and ekko

I play top, the best I can do in this scenario is pick a diver specifically for veig, but I really can't control how mid does vs the veig then. Even if I do roam mid, then I get behind.

...this discussion has turned from a veig ult alteration to my unbridled hatred of veig, so I'ma stop right there.

Long story short, yes veig has problems, but he also has many benefits. While the damage is problematic, his squishiness is a fair counterbalance. However, despite all this, his ult doesn't take much thought behind it, which is why I want too make it a skillshot to ensure that there is some thought and restraint when playing veigar.

Pika FoxMay 16, 20191 votes

If youre dying to veig as mao or illaoi..... Youre doing something wrong. Veigar also fucked up using his ult on a non prime target.

AZ FrostMay 16, 20191 votes

I wouldnt call anything that's a short range hit a "skill shot"...little skill to miss that close.

RussiaKittyMay 15, 20191 votes

Veigar's ult does what its designed to do, execute 1 low hp squishy or really low tank. Its almost like a lissandra lock down if it actually did damage, it singles out ONE person with low hp and takes them out of a team fight, assuming they have under 100 MR. Imagine if you had to make Lissandra's enemy cast a skill shot, i doubt youd hit the target you intended to in a team fight.Making it a skill shot would just make things more difficult for him in a team fight, maybe not a 1 v 1. What if veigar ment to hit the low HP cait in the team fight but leona just stepped in the way, now its a wasted ult that did no function and its on its minute long cool down Early and Mid game. If you dont want to get combo one shotted, best suggestion that I recommend from experience as a Veigar main since i started is that Veigar will almost ALWAYS be the slowest one if a team retreats and will be easy if you can just lock him down or surround him, hes not that hard to kill if you get in range of him like most mages. Rengar and Evelynn can be pretty good at getting him as he wont be able to stun you right away if you go invs, its a bit more risky with evelynn because of her charm indicator but they can get the job done. Or just get a yas windwall tbh.

dontspinbutwinMay 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Veigar's ult does what its designed to do, execute 1 low hp squishy or really low tank. Its almost like a lissandra lock down if it actually did damage, it singles out ONE person with low hp and takes them out of a team fight, assuming they have under 100 MR. Imagine if you had to make Lissandra's enemy cast a skill shot, i doubt youd hit the target you intended to in a team fight.Making it a skill shot would just make things more difficult for him in a team fight, maybe not a 1 v 1. What if veigar ment to hit the low HP cait in the team fight but leona just stepped in the way, now its a wasted ult that did no function and its on its minute long cool down Early and Mid game. If you dont want to get combo one shotted, best suggestion that I recommend from experience as a Veigar main since i started is that Veigar will almost ALWAYS be the slowest one if a team retreats and will be easy if you can just lock him down or surround him, hes not that hard to kill if you get in range of him like most mages. Rengar and Evelynn can be pretty good at getting him as he wont be able to stun you right away if you go invs, its a bit more risky with evelynn because of her charm indicator but they can get the job done. Or just get a yas windwall tbh.

Zhonyias counters most of the burst you mentioned, and as such, that item is seen by nearly all veigars who play the game ( if not zhonyias, at least a banshees or the Hextech GLP). By that time, the assassin is in a thick of 4 other teammates, and seeing how theyre assassins, the enemy team now has to force a fight from a disadvantageous situation if they want any form of success.

But yes, I do see what you mean with bodyblocking. However, I personally think that bodyblocking would be a decent way to deal with veig's ult, but I can see how it'd be frustrating for the veigar himself. Then why not change his ult similarly to lucians Q? You can pick your target, but they can still dash out of it.

AZ FrostMay 16, 20191 votes

I wouldn't say doing over 1300 damg to someone is a "low hp execution" ability...