Congratulations Rito, you finally did it.

Papa Andrei·Apr 20, 2017·89 votes·5,612 views

You succesfully made it so a point and click ability can actually miss. New Maokai W is so slow, it can be dodged by Quinn with just Deadmans and boots.

Edit: apparently this is a bug, thank you for pointing this out to me.

{quoted}

Its bugged guys. Meddler (NA) - about 3 hours ago

We've been testing a version of Maokai W that starts slow but accelerates quite rapidly as he travels. Still deciding whether we'll ship that or go back to the speed of 7.8 Maokai W. What's on PBE at present however is bugged in that it's the slow starting speed and no acceleration, leading to a bunch of non functional situations. Definitely won't be shipping that version.

118 Comments

Tyto MorsApr 20, 201746 votes

thats some next level design right there

RainbowIceeApr 20, 20173 votes

riot lost the chance to play a Jaws theme while he is underground.

OkamikaziApr 21, 20172 votes

Maokai wearing a RekSai outfit = Mao'sai skin

RalanrApr 20, 201736 votes

This is beyond sad. I wanted Maokai's W to have counterplay, but I didn't expect Riot to break his legs.

I was hoping for a jump or something.

Velzard of KozApr 20, 20176 votes

Well it's not like everyone would be sonic-fast and avoid it. The main change is that it has counterplay - you can sligthly alter where he lands it, as you can now move a little before he catches.

RalanrApr 20, 20176 votes

Sure, and since this is an extreme video you won't likely always see it.

But I feel this is the wrong way to give his W counterplay. It doesn't exactly provide Maokai more options.

Jet SettApr 20, 20178 votes

Wait til you see Fiora top lane, man oh man you might as well not even have a W then.

Velzard of KozApr 20, 20171 votes

Well, I think counterplay should provide options for the enemy. I'd find better approach that If this ability will prove underwhelming, they could move more power to other parts of his kit (which it seems they already did).

RalanrApr 20, 20172 votes

Idk, I like counterplay that adds options to both the player and the opponent. Like how click stuns are turned into skill shots.

SpecterVonBarenApr 20, 20174 votes

The example is rather ridiculous though, Quinn is using her ult and has the Deadman's Plate passive up and who knows what else, she may even have mobi's boots too. While I agree the speed is disappointing, this is a completely unrealistic scenario for most champs, requiring specific items and abilities to pull off outside of things like Kled's ult.

MelledoneusApr 20, 201726 votes

2 tanks made unviable in 2 patches?

I smell conspiracy.

AnidanApr 20, 20178 votes

I suppose this is how Riot informally denounces the boards' infatuation with the idea of a tank meta.

KilanostApr 20, 201723 votes

These reworks are rushed out hot garbage.

The Lost MarblesApr 20, 201718 votes

Fizz and Lucian's Q are point and clicks that can be dodged.

Granted, you'd need insane reaction time to actually DO it (less so in Lucian's case), but it's possible since both skills fix their areas of effect on cast.

DUDE BROApr 20, 201712 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Lost Marbles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dfd8ue6h,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-20T03:08:25.190+0000)

Fizz and Lucian's Q are point and clicks that can be dodged.

Granted, you'd need insane reaction time to actually DO it (less so in Lucian's case), but it's possible since both skills fix their areas of effect on cast.

Incorrect, those are skillshots that require a target to cast.

Point+Click damage means it can't be dodged, even if you flash out of the way, the spell will follow you. (Like basic attacks or pantheons spear shot)

Big Black CrocApr 20, 20171 votes

Lol, I'm pretty sure you can flash Lucian and fizz Q.try it in custom game mabey

Velzard of KozApr 20, 20176 votes

That's not his point, though. He says that point-click effect in meaning that people dislike (as it provides little counterplay) adjusts its travel path to follow the target. Maokai's point-click is "dodgeable" because if he doesn't catch up, it expires, but most such abilities would simply disappear prematurely and hit regardless of distance. This can be seen sometimes with turret shots. If it follows you for too long, it deals the damage without touching you and the effect either catches up then or disappears.

Thus, he claims Lucian Q is skillshot with only difference it requires point-clicked target. Because Lucian doesn't fire missile that adjusts its path, he is just dependent on seeing nearby target to use it (so getting stealthed means he won't be able to hit you while classic skillshot can be fired at free will), but still affects fixed area in line.

Big Black CrocApr 20, 20171 votes

Tower shots have to get to you to do damage, they don't just disapear. Look at full movespeed Quinn videos on YouTube and you'll see her outrun 20 tower shots.

Supreme Senpai69Apr 21, 20171 votes

They catch up to her when she stops movin though. They never actually go away

xJLx MCHammerApr 20, 201715 votes

lmao

MeDicenWeraApr 20, 201769 votes

*Lmao'kai.

Acheron16Apr 20, 201711 votes

The Maokai rework is just a glorified nerf, he's weaker at all points of the game: Passive- has a Cooldown but only scales down with direct spells cast by or cast upon Maokai (nerf) Q- unchanged mechanically, damage nerf (nerf) W- slower move speed (nerf) E- % damage and damage buff if used in brushes (only buff in the rework) R- incredibly slow, only follows lanes and can be body blocked by tanks (major nerf, % damage reduction is infinitely better)

I personally hate Maokai, but any reasonable player will say that disguising nerfs with reworks is bad.

I NEED HEALlNGApr 20, 20174 votes

that's..the point. Tanks were TOO rampant

Dextix LTApr 20, 20176 votes

What fucking game were you playing?

Dusk Mane RengarApr 20, 20177 votes

## REVERT CLASS UPDATE REWORKS

SqkergApr 21, 20171 votes

No.

Dusk Mane RengarApr 21, 20171 votes

Why not?

SqkergApr 21, 20171 votes

Because a lot of them were successful, or at least improvements

Dusk Mane RengarApr 22, 20171 votes

Yeah like?

Most of them broke the champion or made it useless.

Class Updates are a mistake.

SqkergApr 22, 20171 votes

Darius Katarina Veigar

P0IS0N IVYApr 22, 20171 votes

Brand and Veigar weren't reworked. I know a lot of people still hate Kat and Darius. You said a lot of them were successful but you list four champions.

Dusk Mane RengarApr 22, 20171 votes

Brand is a failed rework, he was forced into support. Katarina has the same problems than before except that now she moves fast. Veigar gers more AP for doing nothing and still has a point and click ultimate which is now an execute. I don't call that "succesful". Darius is meh, he still has the in mobile factor but now he is even more dangerous if you are melee, Q change was good though.

TheEdgeOfDestinyApr 20, 20174 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

TheHappyReaperzApr 20, 20174 votes

"New Maokai W is so slow, it can be dodged by Quinn with just fully stacked Deadmans, Ghotblade, Ult, and boots."

Fixed it for ya.

Penta PenguinApr 20, 20174 votes

"The fastest champion in the game can outrun things"

Woww

kitcat300Apr 20, 20174 votes

Its bugged guys.

{quoted}

We've been testing a version of Maokai W that starts slow but accelerates quite rapidly as he travels. Still deciding whether we'll ship that or go back to the speed of 7.8 Maokai W. What's on PBE at present however is bugged in that it's the slow starting speed and no acceleration, leading to a bunch of non functional situations. Definitely won't be shipping that version.

SEKAIApr 20, 20173 votes

Someone do a sprinter race between Maokai's walking speed and his flying speed.

Let 'em Maokai mains know whether or not they should even use W now or that they should just walk up to enemies and start punching them.

Sp33d Zer0Apr 20, 20172 votes

Lucian's point and click Q can be dodged. Twitch's point and click ult can be dodged. Numerous point and click spells can be flashed (Notably Fizz Q, Jax Q, J4 ult I believe)

Not saying this isn't bad, but this has been around for awhile.

Papa AndreiApr 20, 20171 votes

Fair point, but none of those are point and click. They are targetted. Liss R is Point and Click. J4 Ult is targetted. If it follows you no matter what, it is point and click. Twitch ult is considered a targetted projectile, same with Luc Q

AeszarckApr 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Fair point, but none of those are point and click. They are targetted. Liss R is Point and Click. J4 Ult is targetted. If it follows you no matter what, it is point and click. Twitch ult is considered a targetted projectile, same with Luc Q

Point and Click and Targeted spells are the same thing. Some are dodgeable and some are not.

##The definitions of spell casts. Passive: Do not click on ability. Untargeted: Click on ability. Targeted/Point and Click: Click on ability, click on enemy. Skillshot: Click on ability, click in direction/area.

Papa AndreiApr 20, 20171 votes

But there is a difference, You can dodge Jax Q, and thats point and click, but you can't DODGE Syndra R, and thats Point and Click, so I made the difference.

AeszarckApr 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But there is a difference, You can dodge Jax Q, and thats point and click, but you can't DODGE Syndra R, and thats Point and Click, so I made the difference.

But targeted still means the same thing as point and click. Using the two terms to differentiate things would be like calling men humans and women people because they're different types of mankind. No, men are both humans and people, and so are women.

Just call the spells dodgeable targeted spells or undodgeable targeted spells, or if you like point and click, call them dodgeable point and click spells or undodgeable point and click spells. Targeted spells and point and click spells are the same things.

Automated RivenApr 20, 20171 votes

well i think you can flash the wall but the damage still hits. so in effect when jarvan lands he is alone in the spot but you took a ton of damage.

Papa AndreiApr 20, 20171 votes

Actually nope, they changed it so when he lands, ALL in the area take the damage. (the amount of times I ult Yasuo and he dashes out of it before it lands D:"

UnboundCreatorApr 20, 20171 votes

thank god maokai deserves to be dumpstered

AeszarckApr 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

thank god maokai deserves to be dumpstered

No Champion deserves to be dumpstered. Champions can be nerfed, but asking for huge nerfs to make the Champion terrible to play is immature.

UnboundCreatorApr 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No Champion deserves to be dumpstered. Champions can be nerfed, but asking for huge nerfs to make the Champion terrible to play is immature.

You obviously don't know the meaning of the word immature, and that is very immature ^_^

AeszarckApr 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You obviously don't know the meaning of the word immature, and that is very immature ^_^

Why? Being upset with how a Champion's current state is doesn't mean that that Champion should be made terrible. A nerf is one thing, but a dumpster is just appeasing your hatred for the Champion at the cost of enjoyment to the many players of that Champion.

UnboundCreatorApr 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why? Being upset with how a Champion's current state is doesn't mean that that Champion should be made terrible. A nerf is one thing, but a dumpster is just appeasing your hatred for the Champion at the cost of enjoyment to the many players of that Champion.

It's not and riot has proven it themselves. They dumpster champs like azir and vlad if the design is too hard to balance.

AeszarckApr 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's not and riot has proven it themselves. They dumpster champs like azir and vlad if the design is too hard to balance.

You think that Maokai's design is too hard to balance so you want him dumpstered, even when he was reworked specifically so he could be healthier for the game? I don't get why you think he deserves to be dumpstered.