How to make a true Minion-Mancer archetype in league viable.

Papa Andrei··9 votes·983 views

WARNING LONG READ AHEAD, LONG READ AHEAD.

Everyone who plays League is aware of the resident minion-mancers, the champions whose kit primarily focus around their spawned creatures. Zyra Malzahar Heimerdinger and Yorick . Notice how alot of these champions have been nerfed into the ground (Except Yorick cause he just got reworked) because of their minions. Malz and Zyra dominated botlane with the sheer amount of dps they could dish out with the multiple sources of damage, and Heimer basically becomes a mobile "F You" zone that shall not be breached. Yorick used to just be a walking army with literally zero counterplay besides bursting him,

So what is the issue with these Minionmancers? Riot tries to balance them so both the minions and the champion are invidiually strong, which leads to each champion basically being worth double what they are, which plainly, is unacceptable.

So how would such an archetype of character be balanced then? Well Riot had it right with the Old Yorick, with all 4 spells just summoning a different ghoul with a unique effect. The issue here though with Old Yorick, was his passive, his scalings, and his Q and E. Here are my points on how the Old Yorick could be balanced, thus providing an example of how a new minionmancer would be balanced.

So his passive, Yorick got more defensive stats and offensive stats per each summoned ghoul. This would be fine if it was limited to simply defensive stats, and not a % damage reduction like it was. This illustrates my point, that the Summoner should not be strong if the ghouls are also.

His scalings, were AD, so this meant he could build items like item 3071 item 3748 item 3053 allowing both him and the ghouls to gain strength, as AD affects both ghouls damage, and Yoricks. Again, big no no. A minionmancer has to be purely AP for Ghoul Damage,

Now onto what truly broke Yorick, his Q and his E. His Q was an AA reset that also summoned a ghoul that granted bonus MS. SO this means with 4 basica abilities, you could only ever out run Yorick if you Dashes or blinks. Which is no bueno. HIs E, was a point and click targeted summon that gave him life back per % of damage dealt by that ghoul. This is what truly broke YOrick, as it was point and click nuke that also healed and blocked skillshots.

To balance those two abilities, one would need to make the Healing based ghoul purely non damage, or a skillshot (Ah Puch Q), and His Q wouldn't be an issue if the Yorick was made AP based for damage.

By now you should have an understanding why Minionmancers as we have know are impossible for Riot to balance. They refuse to accept that a minionmancer and the minions can not both be strong. The Minionmancer should either be tanky with no damage, or the minions should provide utility and no damage. Simple!

TL:DR, Rito tries to make both the Minions and Summoner both strong when they can not be.

5 Comments

CancerBasedGod2 votes

Wow. Someone actually made a well thought out post on balance, that didn't include any fake numbers or other lies.

Watch it get 20 downvotes.

Papa Andrei1 votes

I know ;-; I have made a few posts like this about minionmancers.... xD I just want it to be spread because its literally why I joined League was to play Old Yorick (and Mundo cause UKELELELELE spam)

deadlychuck1 votes

There's another aspect to the minionmancer archetype that a lot of devs do wrong, and riot is more guilty of this than many.

They remove the minion management. Often making play around what the minions are doing, or should be doing, a secondary thought rather than a primary one. Riot even seems to be doing this intentionally, even if the minions are a primary source of power in the champion's kit.

In fact, all 4 champions you listed are perfect examples of this. Zyra expanded the trigger range of her seeds, no longer have to pick between targeting the enemy or a seed Malzahar press W and forget, no longer have to track stages, location, or health. Obviously more emphasised by AD malz. Heimerdinger automatically target champions with their blast Yorick E and forget, their whole interaction is secondary on both his Q and his E.


Now, another take on this, which also failed as a "minionmancer" (and i was quite disappointed in on release) was Azir

His problem was basically the exact opposite, where his "minions" really weren't minion. They are just extensions of his auto attack range. They do nothing on their own, be it movement, attacking, targeting, spawning. Nothing. At which point, he's about as much a minionmancer as Kayle

Papa Andrei1 votes

There is a point where it becomes to much like an rts though, and some people simply do not have the mechanical agility to do so. But I do wish you could say have like old yorick, each ability was a summon. But each was durable and did damage, and you could control them through just hitting the ability again (Tibbers like) but they had long cd and individual strengths. Thus they are balanceable, and allows full control

deadlychuck1 votes

People seem to forget that the genre is an extension of the RTS combine with elements of RPGs, and some incorporate action and aiming elements.

If some people don't have the mechanical agility to micro their minions, then they have other champions without the minion management aspect. A archetype doesn't have to be playable by the lowest common denominator, because that devalues the skill of execution. But lee sin still exists, so maybe lowest common denominator is what riot aims for.

More from Gameplay

More by Papa Andrei