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Koggle-Toggle

Rebonack··2 votes·957 views

Hey look, another topic brainstorming a remake for Koggles! This time around the remake will be centered around his W with the purpose of giving Koggy more Meaningful Choices™ in his play style. This time around? Long-range less reliable damage Vs short range reliable damage.

W- Bio-Arcane Barrage: Koggle-Toggle off: Kog'Maw inflicts stacks of Bio-Arcane Barrage on units hit by his skills and basic attacks. At three stacks they're consumed, dealing bonus magic damage equal to 3/6/9/12/15% of the target's maximum HP. Koggle-Toggle on: Kog'Maw loses his passive %HP damage and gains 150/175/200/225/250 bonus attack range (total 750 at level 5, which was how much he had on release).

All of Kog'Maw's skills are altered by the state of the Koggle-Toggle, though they still share cooldowns. The close-medium range mode boasts higher damage and more reliable damage while the long range mode gets, well, long range. So what do these new skills look like?

Innate- Icathian Surprise: Koggle-Toggle off: As live, however Koggy gains the full movespeed boost immediately and can blow himself up by casting any skill after 1 second. This is his close range self-destruct ability, just with a little bit of added flexibility. Koggle-Toggle on: One second after death, Koggy can launch a Living Artillery-like projectile at extreme range, dealing Innate damage in the target area. This allows Koggy to employ his Innate against folks who killed him at range! However, it can be dodged quite a bit more easily.

Q- Caustic Spittle: Koggle-Toggle off: Kog'Maw spits a medium-range targeted nuke, dealing magic damage and shredding 12/16/20/24/28 flat hybrid resist for 4 seconds. This is basically how Koggy's Q worked before its last remake, a tool for dueling other ADCs and discouraging Assassins from jumping on him. Koggle-Toggle on: As live, basically. This is his tool for shredding tanky folks from a safe range. However, if you tag the Tank with it you won't have the close range version when Akali jumps you!

E- Void Ooze: Koggle-Toggle off: Koggy spits a blob of Void Ooze at a medium range target unit, dealing magic damage in the area around them and slowing all enemy units hit for 2 seconds. A fallback slow in case someone unpleasant jumps Koggy, though the slowing effect doesn't last as long as- Koggle-Toggle on: As live. The slow-field lasts twice as long and does a great job of stopping someone running toward Koggy, however it's pretty awful in the event they actually reach him.

R- Living Artillery: Koggle-Toggle off: Koggy spits a medium/long (800 range?) artillery nuke (think Galio Q) that lodges in the ground at target location. The Living Artillery shell will detonate when an enemy unit steps on it or Koggy's Living Artillery stack-counter resets. Holy zone-control Batman! This thing would have so many uses, most importantly discouraging enemy champions from going where you don't want them to. Dodging it at melee-range would be very difficult without some fancy juking, giving Koggy a solid way to fight back against people who jump him. Koggle-Toggle on: As live. Everyone loves this thing, right? Super long range rapid fire delayed blast nuke. Nothing further needs to be said.

So there you go! Koggy's super-long range damage goes down a bit, but he gains more range and up-time. More importantly, he gains the ability to peel for himself with raw damage at medium/close range, a vitally important ability that would improve his ability to function in solo queue.

12 Comments

ofart2 votes

As I keep saying, Kog is fine but needs minor number tweaks (.7 AP ratio back on Q, maybe scaling the ult. damage back to 125% at max rank). His kit is fine the way it is imo and he was even picked in OGN for a preseason match. Yeah, they lost pretty badly but just pulling him out means he's not inherently as bad as Urgot etc. Just because he's unpopular doesn't mean there's anything wrong with his kit design or playstyle. Mechanically intensive champions with very weak early games and no escapes tend to appeal to fewer people.

Your W idea sounds too much like Varus and I love the range on Kog's current ult. It's the most fun part of his kit.

BTW: I think what's really nice about Trist isn't just the safety. It's that you're not so cooldown gated. For Kog, he has to make use of those 8 sec. or he's 500 ranged and basically useless.

Rebonack1 votes

Geeze, not even downvotes? I know Koggy is unpopular, but I didn't realize that many people don't care about him.

item 3070KogMaw item 3070

Rebonack1 votes

Koggy is down in the bottom-ten picked champions with the same general issue that Yorick, Galio, and Skarner have. He isn't bad per-se, but the things he does well just aren't outstanding enough to ever have a reason to pick him over other champs.

Koggy has long range auto-attacks! Neat! So does Trist, but she's much safer for a little less damage. So does Jinx, but she has a much better early, more utility, and higher team-fight damage contribution if she's hitting at least two targets with Fishbones.

Koggys has oodles of damage and does a decent job of standing up to tanky folks! Swell! Vayne does more damage to targets with 140 resist even if you include Kog's resist shred and ignore Vayne's Ult while also being far safer due to her self-peel. Corki just absolutely crushes soft targets due to his insane armor shred while also being able to woosh away at a moment's notice.

Koggy has nice poke! Wonderful! Ez and Corki have easier to land missile skillshots that can be spammed without going OOM in five seconds. And that is, of course, on top of being mobile.

The only thing Kog has is really high sustained, single target damage from long range and that's honestly the least interesting part of his kit.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Koggle-Toggle is probably OP as drawn. It's super fun though, and we know that a kit like this could potentially work because Jinx.

Especially like the idea of a toggled ultimate.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Koggle-Toggle is probably OP as drawn. It's super fun though, and we know that a kit like this could potentially work because Jinx.

Glad you think it looks interesting! I usually don't stick numbers on my suggestions at all since the goal is to brainstorm rather than offer fine-tuning. Being able to apply his %HP damage via skills would be a pretty big change for Koggy (AA Q AA E AA AA would make for a nice trade in lane).

Especially like the idea of a toggled ultimate.

As do I! We have a lot of champions with Ults that are toggles, but not so much Ults that get toggled.

{quoted} His kit is fine the way it is imo and he was even picked in OGN for a preseason match.

Kog being okay in super-organized play is kind of the problem, actually. Because he's in a very different situation down in the land of mere mortals. There's a massive disconnect between his ability to function at varying levels of play. Reverting some of the nerfs would probably help with the raw numbers issue, but it doesn't address the fundamental problem with his kit, that problem being that 'high damage, high range, no mobility' has some serious issues. Koggy's weak early game doesn't help, either, since taking the first dragon carries something like a 70% win-rate.

Your W idea sounds too much like Varus and I love the range on Kog's current ult. It's the most fun part of his kit.

It's pretty unlike Varus', honestly. If anything it's more like Gnar's. And Koggy wouldn't be losing his Ult, far from it. His live Ult would be tied to his long-range mode while the new artillery mine Ult would be tied to the medium-range mode. You would just hit W to switch between the two.

ofart1 votes

A champion doesn't have to be "balanced" for all skill levels. In fact, that doesn't even make any sense. That's basically arguing that the skill ceiling should be lowered because that's the only way a champion like Kog will have similar success at all levels. Balance is by definition based on high level play (ideally, perfect play if that existed). You could be incompetent on any champion and that wouldn't mean that it now needs a buff.

The lack of mobility is Kog's weakness and it's there for a reason. Removing that would just make him too strong. The strengths you mention make him appealing for and versus certain compositions. He is NOT meant to be a generalist ADC like Corki. He has a niche and you're not supposed to insta-lock Kog every time you want to ADC. He is a niche choice and that's fine.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted} The lack of mobility is Kog's weakness and it's there for a reason. Removing that would just make him too strong.

I don't think I've ever suggested giving Koggy mobility (outside of procing his Innate, lulz) in any of the brainstorming sessions I've posted regarding him. If I were trying to sum up Koggy it would be 'Immobile tank-busting artillery platform'. Note that 'immobile' comes first.

And the game gets balanced around all skill levels. Some nerfs are specifically because of high-level games (see: Koggy and Twitch) while others are aimed at more general play levels (hey there Xin nerfs down through the ages save for the very first). The vast lion's share, however, target fairly run of the mill stuff that works at all play levels.

I don't think that Kog is bad. I think he's pretty well 'balanced' as far as Rangers go. He is not crippled like Twitch is. Rather, he's in about the same situation as Poppy or Galio or Skarner or Yorick. He's 'balanced', but his strengths are so narrowly defined that there's typically no reason to pick him. There are too many other champions with significant enough overlap with Koggy to exclude him from play save for extremely specific circumstances.

Some of my proposed remakes are focused on giving Koggy more flexibility with his strengths, like this one. This remake is meant to allow Koggy to swap back and forth between 'Tank-Buster' and 'Artillery Platform' without making either too overbearing.

Other remake proposals have been focused on bring more focus to Koggy's kit, narrowing down the scope of his strengths and making him the best at his thing.

Yulen Xoshxius1 votes

I just want to be able to have "koggle-toggle" be semi-relevant to the game now.

ofart1 votes

Don't remind me about Twitch. I'm so sad about him.

Social Justice 11 votes

Why does Kog need a rework?

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Don't remind me about Twitch. I'm so sad about him.

Yeah... I really hate it when champions get destroyed like that. Eve was one of my most played back in Beta/Season 1 so I know what it's like to have a champion nerfed into the ground and their identity totally changed. It's an awful feeling to have something you enjoy removed from the game.

[{quoted}](name=Nono Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dezY1HPt,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-01-15T07:20:07.588+0000)

Why does Kog need a rework?

I thought I had covered that, but I guess I'll reiterate.

The purpose of this rework is to better cement and define the two main parts of Koggy's identity as a champion: 'Tank-buster' and 'Artillery platform'. By making it so he has to swap back and forth between the two via the W Koggle-Toggle it allows the strengths of the two aspects of his character to be emphasized without watering each other down. Shot-range Koggy busts tanks and has much higher damage. Long-range Koggy has lower damage, but crazy range available at all times.

Also, removing the %HP damage from his long-range attacks is a targeted nerf at high-level 'Protect the Kog!' play that would allow power to be spread around the rest of his kit in a fashion that would be healthy for all play levels, I believe.

Rebonack1 votes

That's basically arguing that the skill ceiling should be lowered because that's the only way a champion like Kog will have similar success at all levels

Just noticed this in reading back through.

The problem with Koggy is that his viability isn't based on his skill level. His viability is based on his team's skill level. See: Kog only doing well in Pro-level games when he has three supports to protect him.

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