Easy champs are easy, why must some people deny it?

Vicarious117·Oct 9, 2015·6 votes·2,924 views

and so on and so on....

Why do people who main these champs not just admit how stupidly simple they are to play? Not saying it's "wrong" to play them or you should be playing harder champs or anything, hell I play Aatrox a lot and he may be weak as shit but he's still rather simple and I admit that. I even play Pantheon from time to time and I even pointed him out as one of the easiest!

But why do the people who main a lot of these champs just refuse to admit how easy they are to play? Is lying to yourself about their difficulty make you feel like you're better then you really are or something? Admit it, "yes I play an easy champ, and I like it!" It won't change anything, but you won't be lying to yourself.

65 Comments

Maximum MordeOct 9, 20157 votes

I tend to pick champions BECAUSE they are easy. It lets me focus on the tactical and strategic part of playing the game and have more success while I develop my mechanical skills. So, I wouldn't be offended at all if someone told me I was playing an easy champion. I mean, its true. I do it on purpose.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

I don't mean it as something offensive at all, I'm mainly just confused as to why some people who do play easy champs will deny their simplicity until the day they die, like they don't want to admit it or something. That's what I don't get.

DarkRitualOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't mean it as something offensive at all, I'm mainly just confused as to why some people who do play easy champs will deny their simplicity until the day they die, like they don't want to admit it or something. That's what I don't get.

Most champs you listed are simple true, but many do have their intricacies that seperate the average player from the great ones. Most notably, Kat timing the resets and jumps, Yi dodging skillshots with Alpha Strike, and Riven's AA canceling and jump tactics. Pantheon could even be in that category with the Aegis timings and stacking. Before anyone goes and says anything about me only saying this because I play them, I don't play any of them much outside of OfA.

tl;dr Easy champs are easy, but some have skillful mechanics hidden in their kits.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

None of those things are even slightly difficult though, Kat's "timings" are easy as shit since you get them so quickly that timing anything is kind of irrelevant (outside of basic game knowledge, nothing to do with her kit specifically), timing an Alpha Strike is easier then side stepping an ability cause it's more instant and completely removes any kind of counterplay for the duration, so the "intricacy" of using Yi's alpha strike is literally just the game being easier for him when compared to other champs, and Riven's aa canceling was surprisingly easy to get, first time I played her I was doing it just fine, I had honestly thought it was take some practice but turns out you don't really need to.

So yeah they add uniqueness to each champ and gives each of them something different to think about, but that doesn't make them any less simple to use, I play Pantheon and saying that timing his Aegis is an "intricacy" sounds ridiculous to me, he's basically a "zero skill champ" and I still love playing him. I don't get why others refuse to admit similarly.

RalanrOct 22, 20151 votes

I don't know man, timing his passive to block that third Mordekaiser Q is pretty intense.

It all leads up to nothing because magic damage. But still.

RatbertOct 9, 20155 votes

Because difficulty is subjective. And because each champ probably is seen as easy by a group of people.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20152 votes

No that's not the case here, some champions are by nature much easier to use then others and they are designed as such so beginners can get a grasp of the game before moving onto more difficult champs like Azir or Syndra.

It's not subjective at all.

RatbertOct 22, 20152 votes

How can difficulty be objective? Chaining skills might be seen as difficult, but some people can do that with ease, yet struggle with positioning or tactics, which are seen as much easier.

Nothing is "by nature" easy or difficult. Simple maybe, but many simple things are difficult. You can get lots of opinions to say this seems more difficult but can't say this is the most difficult.

NarsicusOct 22, 20153 votes

Because the people saying that are usually doing so to degrade the person playing those champions, otherwise why would it ever come up?

Also, why are you so obsessed with them admitting that they are playing what you consider an easy champion? Perhaps this is not your intent but statements like these always have the seeming of trying to get people to admit that they have some sort of advantage so you can feel justified by losing to them, after all they weren't really better they just played an easy champion right?

At least every time I have ever heard comments like these in game that has always been the sentiment.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

Where'd obsessed come from? That's awfully presumptuous lol

And idc how the question is typically used, assuming I'm asking with the same intent is very short sighted, just saying.

NarsicusOct 23, 20151 votes

Well, you did make it the topic of conversation so you must care at least some amount.

And you seem to get rather irritated from people that play champions you consider 'easy' without acknowledging these champions supposed lack of skill required, or at least your opening post would seem to imply.

You mention "But why do the people who main a lot of these champs just refuse to admit how easy they are to play? Is lying to yourself about their difficulty make you feel like you're better then you really are or something? Admit it, "yes I play an easy champ, and I like it!" It won't change anything, but you won't be lying to yourself." And assume that these people are purposefully disagreeing with you to make themselves feel better, isn't that a little presumptuous? perhaps short sighted?

Personally I find playing Master Yi difficult, he just doesn't fit my style, am I lying to myself?

But that's all beside the point, the real point is that people get annoyed when others attack them. And commenting on a champions supposed lack of skill is almost always used as an attack on that person in a 'don't think you are good' kind of way. Very similar to your comment 'Is lying to yourself about their difficulty make you feel like you're better then you really are or something' you saying quite literally that people that play these champions would do much worse if they played a 'hard' champion and are only propped up by this crutch.

Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, I won't ever know. But there is the answer to your question, people do not like being antagonized, this topic pretty much comes up solely to antagonize others.

Pluie BattanteOct 9, 20152 votes

[deleted]

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

Yeah I remember when SivHD set up his keyboard like a guitar and played Kat like that and still carried, or the time he played her with one hand for the entire match, and once again still carried lol

There's was also a video like that of a Riven player, he literally rolled his face on his keyboard once a teamfight started and wrecked everything :P

Angry MonsterOct 22, 20152 votes

lets reverse this question; who the fuck is that hard?

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

Azir, Syndra, Lee Sin, Galio, Zed. To name a few more complex champs, or at least heavily reliant on horrible skill shots coughGaliocough lol

But not the point, regardless :P

Angry MonsterOct 22, 20151 votes

Actually it goes to the heart of the matter. But i think i will let people judge you from there.

I know i have.

SEKAIOct 22, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Azir, Syndra, Lee Sin, Galio, Zed

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Only Azir is more or less on the actual hard side, the rest 3 (Syndra, Lee, Zed) just no. Galio is only hard because he is bad 80% of the time, so that doesn't really count, it seems you only put him there to make your bias less obvious anyway.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

Bias? Of what? I only play Azir and Galio of that set of champs, the first you admit as being difficult and the second you say CAN as well. So I feel you've missed your mark, or more so your insult has fallen flat since it was based on an assumption.

Look at my profile if you still think I play Syndra, Lee, or Zed. Their kits are simply more complex then say Xin for example, "hit QWE then right click huuuuuuurr!" You can still do cool things with Xin and have fun playing him, but his kit is simpler and that's just a fact. I'm not saying they're difficult though, the original comment by Angry Monster was very misleading so I understand, again they're just more complex.

ShonjlOct 22, 20151 votes

No offense but only Azir is actually somewhat challenging to use. Syndra it isn't hard to stun people and getting the full power of your ult off, Galio is mostly garbage so even if people were good with him, you have better options. Zed it really doesn't take that much skill to throw his Shurikin a few times til the enemy is a little low then all in them with ult and use all your abilities.

And Lee let's be honest, he isn't hard to play, all he is is one of the best champs to make LC$BIGPLAY$. It isn't even that special anymore to see him do his fancy ward hop and ult kick someone to you guys thing anymore since almost everyone can do it, which is literally all he is good for anyways so....

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

Just look at the post I made above, it's not about which champs you find easy or hard to play, it's which have more complex kits. With complexity comes more "wiggle room" in gameplay, so lacking that complexity means you just kind of always have to do the same thing, like Garen hit's Q, then spins, and ults. There is literally nothing else to him then that, where on the other side take Yasuo, he's still quite easy to use but due to his kits complexity you can make plenty of outplays if you understand him enough.

And before you say it, no I don't count Riven as being complex, because the only thing "pro" Riven players do over noob Rivens is aa cancelling, which in and of itself is very simple and a singular thing. The "outplay" aspect of her kit comes from numbers, which isn't complexity.

ShonjlOct 24, 20151 votes

Riven isn't complex. Not going to have me say otherwise, you can be a first time riven and get fed with ease due to just how she is.

The point I was basically making is that no champs are really complex. Sure Garen does Q then E and Ult and thats it. But is Yas really any different? She Q's til he can shoot a tornado out, if it hits, he ults, if he doesnt, he keeps doing it til he can again. He uses windwall when ranged comes into play and his dash gets him around.

At the end of the day, what I was saying is all champs are simple to use, they all use the same 4 buttons. The main reason people get offended by that is because people use it as an insult. "Ohh you are playing Riven, an easy champ" Is basically saying you are using an easy champ and that is why you win since you suck otherwise. Yasuo isn't a hard champ to play, Azir isn't even hard to play, hell Lee fking Sin isn't even hard to play and are likely to get the same kind of responses. At the end of the day, until people stop using easy champs as an insult, no one will admit it.

Meep ManOct 22, 20151 votes

Azir is hard to learn and play, agreed. Syndra I disagree with. To play and such, she is pretty simple. Lee Sin is always here in these lists and I always disagree. I never got what made him so hard to play. Ive heard a lot of people say his Q is a skill shot and is hard to land, and then I just laugh and tell them about just about every other skill shot in the game. Is it hard to QQEE and then ward jump behind the target while they are slowed by 60%? Galio is actually very effective and easy to play. Everyone that says he is bad is really just finding an excuse to not use him. They are the people that go full armor Rammus and therefore go full MR Galio, ignoring if their team has AD. His ultimate is just stupidly good and is extremely good. I laugh at those who say Zed is as hard as they say he is. Hardest champion to play and learn!? No, Im pretty sure thats either Azir or Bard. Once you learn to not try and do stupid things as him, which shouldnt happen, you realize how to farm effectively and how to wombo as Zed on a target with his ultimate.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

You miss the point. It's not whether YOU personally find playing them difficult or not, their kits are simply more complex then the others I listed in the OP or are very reliant on hard to land skillshots, which by nature are harder then point and clicks.

It's nothing about how hard you find them, they simply have more complex kits and that's just a fact.

Meep ManOct 22, 20151 votes

Bard Go and play 10 games as him and win at least 5 of them, getting at least an B for each win Dont mess up a single ultimate Position right for your Q Manage your shrines correctly Dont E at the wrong time or wrong way

TyroneWatermelonOct 23, 20151 votes

My main supp is bard,I played atleast 70 games with him,with above 60% winrate

Baseball3bOct 22, 20152 votes

I am the bone of my bait, bait is my body and bait is my blood, unknown to death nor known to life, have withstood captcha to create many shitpost, yet these hands will never hold mai waifu, so as I pray UNLIMITED BAIT WORKS

If you were srs; all the champs in league are easy. I don't see how this thread is relevant at all.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

Then don't comment, ez pz

Baseball3bOct 22, 20153 votes

Alright, I'll bite.

Skill is relative. Objectively, every champion in league is easy. The game doesn't require the immense strength or athleticism in football, the incredible reflexes needed in baseball, or the mind-blowing precision in neonatal heart surgery or off pump CABG anastomosis.

Like I said, skill is relative. The majority of the reluctance to admit to playing an "easy" champion comes from the fact that many people insult them for playing "easy" champs, especially when they lose. It's like telling someone they're useless because your job is harder than theirs.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

So they refuse to admit their champs are easy to play cause they're afraid it's an insult? I mean shouldn't that just be more of a reason to admit it though? Like "yeah I play an easy champ and I enjoy it/still won/did my best/etc."

I guess this leads back into the question "why is the LoL community so toxic and why is it an assumed motivation all the time?" But that's another discussion entirely lol

I guess your posts are a good example though, assuming I'm trolling or looking to insult others just cause of the topic and the fact that we're LoL players. You're by far not the only one, but that doesn't mean it's something that should just be "ok" simply cause most people are the same.

RalanrOct 22, 20153 votes

People don't like saying they play easy champions because of the elitism on this board.

You play a difficult champion and get to plat, then people will respect you. Say you play Garen all the way to plat, people will bitch and moan about a "no-skill" champion doing better than their difficult champions.

Actually people bitch and moan regardless.

Basically it's an appeal to ethos. People (especially those who main their champion) don't want to be considered uncredible for their abilities because their champion is "easy".

Take Pantheon. 2 of his abilities are targeted. He can't miss them. That frustrates people because they offer so much reward so easily. They don't look at the flaws of the champion.

Pantheon is fun. I main him top and I he's my goto jungler. He's simple to play, which is great a lot of the time (I usually use his ult for positioning over damage). Sometimes I get a bit bored and play a fill role or bring someone else top (like Sion or Gangplank) but I always go back to Pantheon.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

Yeah I main Rengar and people all the time say shit like "no skill champ gg," to which I reply with something like "still fucked you up."

I mean Rengar has some complexity in his unique resource management, which is apparent and more difficult when playing him as a tank/bruiser, but mainly when playing him as an assassin he becomes very one dimensional and has that one thing he can do and requires someone who plays him like that to only have to get good at that one rotation, making him a lot easier to grasp and use, but also a lot easier to counter and handle.

I guess what I was missing was the assumed mentalities of the people who play this game, the elitism in the boards and ridiculous need to be toxic in-game. When I say it I don't typically mean to offend anyone, unless someone playing a champ like Yi or Garen starts to rag on my Rengar or Aatrox for being easy, cause the irony of people playing champs like that saying such a thing is hilarious lol

But yeah I see what you're saying, thanks for the honest and clear answer, quite a bit of people assuming I'm trying to be offensive so far, only a few honestly answering xP

RalanrOct 22, 20152 votes

I'm a communications major. It's kinda my thing.

I'm just bad at it most of the time. :P

Baseball3bOct 22, 20152 votes

I have to disagree there. They don't admit it not because they're afraid it's an insult, but because it is, or at least league players make it out to be.

It's like having somebody play the Ice Climbers and shit on your life because they beat your MetaKnight in Brawl. Or having your boss/professor harass the shit out of you because his job is "harder" than yours.

Essentially it's all because of the elitist attitude many people have and focusing just on this specific issue solves nothing because there's a deeper sociological problem at hand.

Also, no I wasn't assuming you were trolling because of the topic. Your original post came off as pretty elitist.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

It did? That's surprising, I thought I stated somewhere in it that I play easy champs too and admit to it regularly and find nothing wrong with it o.O

Ah well, perceptions alter and vary, sorry if I appeared to be offensive. And you do make a good point, but I feel like LoL brings this negative attitude out in more people more often. I mean I rarely have a professor upset about their job "being more difficult," but constantly see people in LoL arguing about champion difficulties, like it's a norm :P

Also Brawl had some very distinct issues in character balance, Ice Climbers, Meta Knight, Snake, and some others were simply better cause there was no balancing team lol But yeah losing to someone when you're playing Meta Knight should have made it so you weren't allowed to comment on the other players character choice at all xD

Baseball3bOct 23, 20151 votes

It was more the second half of your post that did it.

A lot of the toxicity is just a result of the anonymity that comes with the internet tbh. The professor thing was just a hypothetical comparison.

Again, it was just a comparison lol. The point is, in order to move past the issue, we need to stop talking about it in the first place. Nothing good comes from comparing difficulty. (and seriously, fuck meta knight. My friend picks him every time we play Brawl and just spams his tornado. lol)

RalanrOct 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A lot of the toxicity is just a result of the anonymity that comes with the internet tbh. The professor thing was just a hypothetical comparison.

Otherwise known as G.I.F.T.

Binxy PrimeOct 22, 20152 votes

Riven is one of the harder champs IMO, but in general this game is pretty easy mechanically.

Vicarious117Oct 22, 20151 votes

I still can never understand why people think Riven is a hard/complex champion.

For the longest time people just kept saying "the animation canceling the animation canceling!" And playing against a bad Riven and good Riven was quite obvious due to this.

But then I got a random Riven skin from a friend so I thought I'd give her a go.... and the animation canceling is simple as fuuuuuuck, and remembering to auto in between abilities isn't something that's unique to her, she's just greatly rewarded for doing it. On top of those short CDs and no resources to worry about at all.... I just didn't see it.

That ofc then leads to the fork in the arguments atm, where some people are saying "difficulty is subjective therefore you find Riven easy but others don't," but the actual discussion is kit complexity, and for the reasons I found Riven easy to play she is also not complex, since there is very little to have to actually do to reach her full potential. She doesn't have a high skill cap at all, she simply has a very low skill floor, creating that difference in good and bad Rivens.

So that's why I still don't understand why some people think she's one of the more difficult champs to play. She's not on the same level as Garen, Yi, Xin, or WW, but one of the hardest? That's a resounding no.

NemeBroOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

and so on and so on....

Why do people who main these champs not just admit how stupidly simple they are to play? Not saying it's "wrong" to play them or you should be playing harder champs or anything, hell I play Aatrox a lot and he may be weak as shit but he's still rather simple and I admit that. I even play Pantheon from time to time and I even pointed him out as one of the easiest!

But why do the people who main a lot of these champs just refuse to admit how easy they are to play? Is lying to yourself about their difficulty make you feel like you're better then you really are or something? Admit it, "yes I play an easy champ, and I like it!" It won't change anything, but you won't be lying to yourself.

I don't disagree with your point, but I do disagree with some of the champions listed.

Like Cho (yes I'm a Cho main but I'm not biased I swear) is very immobile and reliant on one of the least reliable skill shots in the game. He's strong, but harder to play than, say, Garen, another champion I main and fully admit is easy to play (which is why I think he's a great starter top laner).

Yi and maybe Wukong (yes I also main Wu stfu) are examples of low skill floors, but medium to high skill caps IMO.

In essence though yeah, some people play easy champions. The reason people don't like that stigma is the way people phrase this statement though. It's never a civil pointing out that, mechanically, the champion someone plays is easy.

It's something like a butthurt feeding Yasuo player crying about how his champion actually takes skill and that the only reason I'm winning is I'm playing Darius (has happened to me before). I've also had a Riven player whine about me stomping her skull in with Tryndamere top, saying that I'm just playing a noob champ. I've also had a Riven player (yeah...) say that I would have fed with any other champ and had to play an OP champ to first blood her and crush her in lane. Who was this champion? Poppy. I dominated a Riven in lane as Poppy (the Riven was awful).

RalanrOct 22, 20151 votes

How often is Poppy played to even know what to expect?

Meep ManOct 22, 20151 votes

Nunu Nununununu... He's super hard to play. I gotta manage my passive BEFORE I Q in lane. AP Top Nunu for the win.

WarlockLawOct 22, 20151 votes

Of those champions you listed some of them have a few subtle techniques they make or break champions at certain elos. East champions have little distinction between a player who has 10 games vs 100 games.

A Riven main won't get to plat without learning the animation cancels, something that should stop her from being called easy.

Pantheon has his shield mechanic that when used probably can make trades entirely one sided, done poorly and might just die before getting a kill.

Wukong can utilize his w and stop (hotkey'd to s) to mind game his opponents allowing him to get away when he should otherwise die.

There is a difference between those champions and Warwick or Katarina

GusiclesOct 23, 20151 votes

The reason why is because whenever someone brings this up, 99.99% of the time it's in a mocking or deriding manner. Such as, "Oh you play X? You must be bad because that's an easy champion."

The problem with this is that it's all in perspective. For example, you noted Riven as being an easy champion. Her kit is pretty straightforward, but I think she's a difficult champion to master, and I'd wager most people agree. (Numbers needing tuning aside.)

Even the term "easy" itself is almost inherently derogatory. It seems to imply the superiority of whoever "plays the complex champs". I'd rather word it as "reliability" and "higher reward" champions.

azrolatorOct 23, 20151 votes

My favorite champ has been Garen. When I was hitting level 30, I realized I still didn't know a lot of champs and probably played too many lanes to get a good in depth knowledge. Decided I would just play Garen top, not sure what made that decision. Or Xin jungle, that speed boost plus innate heal on hit made it easier without runes. I learned a lot by playing what I realized was a champ with easy mechanics. That gave me time to get better at last hit, strategy, learn other champs and how to counter, how to build to counter, etc. I can be pretty good with Garen, better than I am with stronger, but more complicated champs. He had low floor, low ceiling, which was okay with me. His ceiling is higher now, so is his floor. But I still mostly play him the same way as before. Nothing wrong with easy mechanics, understanding how to engage and escape with simple characters and to make the most of them I think gives a pretty good understanding of the game. Getting older and my hands don't respond so well since a car accident awhile back, so I hope Riot keeps some simple champs around for me.

azrolatorOct 23, 20151 votes

I think the OP meant "simple mechanics" and many are hearing "easy to do well and win with".

Zair UmbrasOct 23, 20151 votes

The champs are MECHANICALLY easy. Very easy. It's not their mechanics though that make them high skill. Easy to use kits are very far from easy to use champions. To master a champion, you must have timing, focus, and know your CD's perfectly. Usually getting down your CD's are the easy part, but knowing when to go in on champions like Riven, Kat, Yi, and Tryn is so intensive. You have to know 100% that you can take a specific target for either your reset or put out the needed damage. If you're just going to say "Kat is easy, she's so freelo" and then a noob picks her up, notices her kit is mechanically easy, then tries to dive the backline before her team has done anything, she's going to die and be worthless. If she waits, watches the fight, chooses a target, then PROPERLY goes in on it for the kill and actually gets it, then she's a good Kat. She's able to choose her fights wisely rather than doing what Darius does and walk into a fight, get low, press Q, and not... really do anything mechanically or skillful.

Timing, Prioritizing, and Patience are all part of a champions skill cap. You won't see many Rivens actually doing well if they don't know their champion inside and out unless their opponents are complete idiots and don't know anything about Riven. Same goes for Kat, really. It's why you'll see Rivens beat Olafs and Kats beating LeBlancs. If they have more skill, they'll likely win. It's just how it is. Almost every match up where a Riven or Kat get fed it's because of the enemies not understanding the champ or not dealing with it.

A good example of a team not dealing with Riven was recently in World's! ROC vs. Fnatic. Huni sat top with a free lane against a Rumble. Rumble is a poor champ against a Rumble and Huni was ignored so hard that he had an inner turret at 2 minutes in as RIVEN. ROC had a team to deal with Riven and just ignored her completely despite her being 100 CS above her lane opponent on top of having 2 turrets down, plus getting ganks from a Rek'Sai and a TF on a number of occasions. If ROC had ganked Riven like Fnatic ganked Rumble, Riven would've fell off and Rumble would've dominated in team fights, but instead she was ignored and allowed to get two towers and a number of kills. Huni's Riven wasn't even good either. He played super cocky and would've been destroyed if he didn't have a free lane and two fricken turrets for free.

StephenizgodOct 24, 20151 votes

Eh its all subjective. One group thinks Yi is simple, another thinks he is complicated. Some people play him with ease, others do not. Some make it look simple because they are good at timing and positioning and others do not and are not. Just because a kit is simple does not mean the champion is easy or simple. Garen may seem easy but thats only because people refuse to learn how to counter him and complain when they use the same tactic over and over again only to fail. Garen is simple, true but easy? Maybe probably lol...

Also different champions have different levels of simplicity, Garen and Pantheon are very direct in what they can do and there is little variation in how they do it, Katarina and Yi are simple in what they can do but how they do it can differ from player to player.

AbyssphereOct 24, 20151 votes

Difficulty is subjective. Some champions are difficult to label difficult but I personally would not agree with the assessment that Riven and Katarina are easy, even though I play neither. There is a limit to what can reasonably be described as "difficult" (I play Sona - she's definitely simple), but beyond the most simplistic of champions it's very debatable and given mains of a champion know best their intricacies, they're obviously going to bring up the stuff that's difficult to use in their kit.

Champions look a lot easier when you are looking at the enemy playing them, but when you're the one behind the wheel you tend to find there's much more to them than you first thought.