Now that Yasuo has reached pick or ban status in pro play...

The Bad Touch·May 14, 2018·163 votes·28,767 views

Can we finally nerf him?

I mean the excuse "he isn't used in pro play" is basically a meme at this point.

It's a miracle it took them this long to realize that a better Braum shield with a larger radius + zero outplay spam R ulti would work against anyone.. no matter how good they are.

Yas was fine when teamfights lasted longer than the duration of his farking windwall. Now not so much.

By the time that shit times out the fight/dragon/baron/elder/game is over.

200 Comments

monoscapeMay 14, 201857 votes

Conqueror on Yasuo with bone plating secondary is just so busted, Conqueror shouldn't effect Crit damage. That build has 0 weaknesses and Yasuo can 1v3 and shit out damage while being kinda tanky

NorthernRedStarMay 14, 201841 votes

Conqueror is a busted keystone.

woodvsmurphMay 14, 201820 votes

It is on auto attack based melee's and hybrid (aa vs caster-based) melee's. Trynd, yasuo, yi, jax, fiora, etc. On something like darius or renekton I'd say it's in an ok spot. That's why I actually argued before it hit live that:

It would break auto attack based melee's and needed to be nerfed
It was SUPPOSED to help the caster-based melee's (not designed for trynd, jax, yasuo, etc.) (maybe a little for jax) and should be reworked to be more about the ad OR only give the true damage on spells/abilities - not on auto attacks. It would also have to maybe give a damage amp on them too, but this would better help the champs it was DESIGNED to help.
Said it would fail to live up to it's goals or fix toplane, but instead would just create some broken melee's while leaving others in a snowball or get shit on harder by champs like yas and jax spot (which it has). And it would (along with other changes) make tank stats irrelevant vs someone like jax or yasuo.

Before it even hit live I said that stuff. And now here we are... and it's all holding largely true. Conqueror isn't healthy for the game in it's current state and it didn't fix toplane. It just created or amplified a new set of problems such as yasuo. Honestly, give me a month to lead the balance team and I could have shit in a better spot than it's largely been left in for... since league of ardent censer basically.

DeusVultMay 14, 201811 votes

Conqueror should only apply on damage dome through abilities. It is meant as a keystone for bruisers, yet some of the strongest users of it are people that apply most of their damage through autos, and since they are melee they deal 20% true damage for the entire fight.

EnderspiderMay 14, 20187 votes

and that without having to worry about mobility, crit, mana, cooldowns, enemy armor or genuinely dodging projectiles.

chipndip1May 14, 201844 votes

Being picked a handful of times =/= pick/ban status.

MLDzXnRRRMay 14, 201821 votes

http://www.gamesoflegends.com/champion/picksandbans.php?season=S8&patch=ALL&tournament=Mid-Season%20Invitational%202018

7 bans, 4 picks - not bad for a "troll champ"... Imagine, if he is playable in competitive how annoying are normal games (because he is permaban in ranked) = every game 2 yasuos.

AirKingNeoMay 14, 20186 votes

out of how many total games?

The Bad TouchMay 14, 201841 votes

Inc downvotes from salty Yas mains that know it's coming...

redniwediSMay 14, 201829 votes

Making assumptions about the people downvoting is the number one best way to start a downvote farm. Congratulations.

Too bad too many people hate Yasuo for you to get what you deserve on this one.

Akali is SO HOTMay 14, 201841 votes

I liked the part where being picked/banned in only a handful of games means pick/ban status

BestPudgeNAMay 14, 201825 votes

We got some people in this thread saying Yasuo is pick/ban and we got a few others saying he is "only played a few times"

Neither one of these is correct

He has a 45.8% presence at MSI and considering not all mid/top laners have him in their champ pools i'd say he is a highly valued pick

zaqatMay 14, 201823 votes

some guy called yasuo main will come and downvote you, adding an amazing comment about he has fun playing him and how fair and balanced yasuo is.

PowerSlave993May 14, 201818 votes

After losing so many games to Yasuo these days, I get flashbacks... In my mind I only hear:

''TON TON, HASAG, HASAGI, ASERYO, TON, AN ALLY HAS BEEN SLAIN, TON TON TON TON, ENEMY DOUBLE KILL, (FLYTE PLAYING), IT'S JUST DEATH NOTHING SERIOUS, TON TON, HASAG, HASAGI, ENEMY DOMINATING, HASAG, TON TON, AIGATON, ENEMY TRIPLE KILL!, (FLYTE PLAYING), TON TON''

IT MAKES SCARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheGreatNinxMay 14, 201817 votes

I love how every post about either Zed or Yasuo is always in silver or below. Like not one plat or above is complaining about it (at least from what I can see). All because he's in pro play doesn't = nerf pls. If that was the case anyone picked in pro play would be nerfed and then a new set champions will be played in the pro scene.

Blue GuilmonMay 14, 20187 votes

{quoted}

I love how every post about either Zed or Yasuo is always in silver or below. Like not one plat or above is complaining about it (at least from what I can see). All because he's in pro play doesn't = nerf pls. If that was the case anyone picked in pro play would be nerfed and then a new set champions will be played in the pro scene.

been in masters and diamond since season 4. I don't think yasuo as a champion is healthy in league, sure he's fun, but his kit is very very rewarding in low elos for little skill which is a problem, his shield makes trading hard, and if someone knows how to play yasuo decently well he is a pretty safe pick too into people who don't have skill-shot-based-cc (projectiles that can be eaten by his w I mean).

TheGreatNinxMay 14, 20182 votes

I haven't seen a decent yasuo even in my elos(which isn't high). Just people when on enemy team not playing the match up right or having the yasuo on my team hit his 0/10 power spike defeat screen.

Blue GuilmonMay 14, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I haven't seen a decent yasuo even in my elos(which isn't high). Just people when on enemy team not playing the match up right or having the yasuo on my team hit his 0/10 power spike defeat screen.

I think the main problem with this champion is that he counters almost everyone who relys on projectile skillshots in the midlane to deal damage (which is A LOT of champions) and he has hypercarry scaling because of his passive. Someone only needs to practice reacting to spells with their windwall against most matchups to climb to platinum with this champion. (which you can practice this and learn it in one day if you sat down to do it)

IkBenShteenMay 14, 201813 votes

Yasuo is genuinely a pain in the ass. Wether you rek your lane hard vs him, it won't matter. Mostly he'll build PD, ninja's and IE and he steamrolls your team later in the game. He needs a tweak on his cooldown for shield and ult.

SpecterVonBarenMay 14, 201811 votes

Maybe make him use mana so he has to pick and choose when to trade rather than just doing it constantly never ending. Seriously, the thing that pisses me off about Yasuo the most is that he never stops, you don't ever get a breather with him you have to constantly deal with him jumping on you constantly for the entire lanning phase and it's exhausting!

VelasanMay 15, 201810 votes

Put his dashes on an ammo system and make his windwall only block auto attacks. Then see where he's at and they can buff his HP or armor per level or whatever feels appropriate afterwards.

If he's going to have so many things on his kit they can't also be super strong individually. That was the same reason they watered down Azir; they said he was too good at too many things.

notice me Sin piMay 15, 20185 votes

it's the windwall duration that's really problematic more than anything tho; no one complains about sivir spell shield lasting 1.25 sec. No one complains about fiora becoming immune to everything for a second. If he will still be allowed to block out all auto attacks for 4 seconds, that's still going to feel awful to play against

LuxannaVeritasMay 14, 20188 votes

Yasuo hate bandwagon incoming to support some factually wrong post about Yasuo.

What's new?

Look, I'm not a Yasuo main. He's not my favorite champion by far, but if he got nerfed he would be out of the game. He's currently wielding a 49% win rate, which is balanced if you ask me. And he DOES have counter-play, it's just hard for some people to realize.

Also, Yasuo isn't pick/ban in professional play. Today at MSI, he was banned in 3 out of 6 games, and not picked in the other three. That's 50%. So that hyperbole of yours is out the window. Don't base your claims on just one day of pro-play.

People were confused and angry when Poppy, who had a 49% win rate as well, got nerfed. Now she's further down in the tier list, upsetting Poppy players. Rework him if he's too 'annoying' to play against. Nerfing him would just be disrespectful to those who like playing Yasuo.

PopcornBunniMay 14, 20185 votes

49% winrate for an 11% pickrate 35% banrate champ seems a bit far from "balanced"

When everyone and their mother is playing a character and winning half the time that should be a pretty big red flag.

Just like when a character is only being played by one-trick mains yet still sitting at sub 47% winrate it should be a sign

( Poppy Nautilus Trundle Galio Diana Gragas )

My Waifu VanillaMay 14, 20185 votes

The difference is Yasuo doesn't need nerfs. He needs a rework. Nerfing his numbers isn't going to make him less annoying to play against which is the communities main problem with him. He's just going to be annoying to play against and actual trash tier if he gets nerfed and not fundamentally changed.

InfernapeMay 14, 20185 votes

Riots nerfed champions with 45% win rates. Win rates don't mean anything.

The Bad TouchMay 15, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo hate bandwagon incoming to support some factually wrong post about Yasuo.

What's new?

Look, I'm not a Yasuo main. He's not my favorite champion by far, but if he got nerfed he would be out of the game. He's currently wielding a 49% win rate, which is balanced if you ask me. And he DOES have counter-play, it's just hard for some people to realize.

Also, Yasuo isn't pick/ban in professional play. Today at MSI, he was banned in 3 out of 6 games, and not picked in the other three. That's 50%. So that hyperbole of yours is out the window. Don't base your claims on just one day of pro-play.

People were confused and angry when Poppy, who had a 49% win rate as well, got nerfed. Now she's further down in the tier list, upsetting Poppy players. Rework him if he's too 'annoying' to play against. Nerfing him would just be disrespectful to those who like playing Yasuo.

He has a low win rate because he's extremely popular and a champ that gets banned constantly. Thus a lot of people play him that have very few games on him just because he's "cool."

If you look at his win rate for people with 200+ games on him... it's 56%.... Which for the record is higher than Orianna and Ryze. (If still lower than Malz.)

That number is still skewed by the hordes of people that still spam him every game even if they are bad at him however.

He's the second most banned champ in league and still has a 56% win rate by people that main him. In other words.. he's good.. popular... and hated by those that don't play him. That seems to the general logic behind champion changes.

Rabid MeeseMay 15, 20187 votes

It'd be interesting if they gave Yasuo's massive free bonuses a negative component. Like, I dunno, having to manage a resource so you don't get near infinite dashes. Not getting extra crit for free and a rechargeable shield. Or keeping his current stuff but removing his ability to auto attack at all. Ya know, kinda like how Casseopia gets extra bonus movement but can not buy boots. Except, ya know, Yasuo's positives are really tangible.

Ya know, cause if we're gonna give out double passives maybe they should also be balanced.

AzadetheMay 15, 20186 votes

It's not the Wind wall... That's easy to deal with.... ground traveling skills, lasers, and none projectiles.

It's the fact he can build 4 Barriers and continuously regenerate 2 of them playing leapfrog with them on no cooldown.

item 3072 is hands down broken on him. He can literally stop moving, and face tank MissFortune 's ult, and take no damage at all, as long as he just keeps Q-ing. He doesn't even need Wind wall there.

Once his Flow Barrier gets up to 300-510 Barrier size, he just no longer can generally be solo'd, because his constant barrier regeneration is always on. And when multiple people/minions are in the fight, he can SPAM his own barrier, which while up, charges BT's Barrier, adding a second layer.

I can literally 1v1 Baron without moving at all or Wind Walling..... just by spamming Q, and not take a SINGLE point of HP damage. There isn't even a Jungler who can do that.

It basically means.... he has the most OP passive in the game: Crit Doubling AND one of the most accessible Barriers in the game.

Cap his Flow Barrier to 100-310 instead of 510, and you'l begin to see him balance out.

Venging AngelMay 15, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dc5yq3i9,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-14T15:28:15.123+0000)

Can we finally nerf him?

I mean the excuse "he isn't used in pro play" is basically a meme at this point.

It's a miracle it took them this long to realize that a better Braum shield with a larger radius + zero outplay spam R ulti would work against anyone.. no matter how good they are.

Yas was fine when teamfights lasted longer than the duration of his farking windwall. Now not so much.

By the time that shit times out the fight/dragon/baron/elder/game is over.

I was waiting for someone to say this - for soooo long. :) The LCS/MSI has (hopefully) started the clock ticking on Mr. Trashuo.

LibroMastroMay 15, 20185 votes

There are 4 one trick ponies Yasuo in euw challenger, it's definitely a broken champ

Blue GuilmonMay 14, 20183 votes

again in regards to my previous comment, in higher elos most people do not complain about him as much not because he is not annoying for us to deal with, but because we know there's no point in complaining about something that has been in the game for about 3 seasons now. If you notice in most diamond + champs people don't even attempt to engage a yasuo unless they outnumber him or unless they can win a fight melee range with him. If you're a champion that throws skillshot cc most people don't even attempt to throw it at him unless windwall is on cooldown or unless there are multiple other targets you can potentially catch instead.

DoozkuMay 14, 20183 votes

They aren't going to touch him until the mid-season changes because they will want to see where he lands with them. Though everyone's saying it's going to be a buff, I have a feeling that mid-season is going to be a nerd to Yasuo.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 14, 20187 votes

Anyone saying Yasuo is going to be buffed by midseason is delusional, wrong, or flat-out lying.

He has no realistic alternative build to him other than crit. He's losing his chance for 100% crit pre-IE, he's going to crit for less than every other champion, and his two core-most items that he absolutely cannot afford to lose are going up by...what, 500g?

He's also wasting crit with his build, now. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that for him. Because he has no alternative build possible. Most ADCs can shift into an on-hit or Lethality usage in games without tanks. Now Yasuo is going to pretty much only be good against tanks. Which means he's basically gone from mid for the foreseeable future after changes.

Is this a good niche for him, to be the ultimate tank-melter? I have no idea. I do know for absolute certain he's coming out of the marksmen update weaker than he's going into it, however. There's just no way around that.

DoktorKaiserMay 14, 20184 votes

He will be dealing like 80% true damage or something, which is disgusting when combined with his low counterplay kit. If I can't stack armor to deal with him for longer than 3 seconds, which is already kind of happening with conqueror, then I might as well never play tanks/juggernauts any more unless I permaban him, god knows that he has like 100% pick/ban rate bellow diamond when he is not garbage level.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 14, 20185 votes

Okay. While he'll be doing pretty much straight true damage, you're ignoring the fact that half of that is actually just him reducing your armor, not true damage, meaning Tabis and Randuin's still work.

And that he'll be critting for only 50% bonus damage, rather than 100% bonus damage. You seem to forget that instance. 20% true damage conversion to someone who already has 20% true damage conversion from conquerer and has 50% bonus armor pen from ult is worth significantly less than 25% more damage, unless you're looking at a Thresh in a 4 hour game.

There is no possible way for Yasuo to come out ahead from the crit rework.

DoozkuMay 14, 20183 votes

Personally I feel like Yasuo could use a mini-rework after pre-season that deals with bow wonkily he interacts with the new items. Keep his ability to increase crit but make it have its synergy with IE be less confusing, and change his ult from flat pen to something else.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 14, 20183 votes

His ult Is %bonus pen, not flat pen.

But, yes, he definitely needs tweaking after the update. Not sure what Riot'd do, but he needs tweaking.

I'd imagine he's probably going to lose the crit weakener on his passive and some armor pen on his ult. But I have no idea.

3ternalkarmaMay 14, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Okay. While he'll be doing pretty much straight true damage, you're ignoring the fact that half of that is actually just him reducing your armor, not true damage, meaning Tabis and Randuin's still work.

And that he'll be critting for only 50% bonus damage, rather than 100% bonus damage. You seem to forget that instance. 20% true damage conversion to someone who already has 20% true damage conversion from conquerer and has 50% bonus armor pen from ult is worth significantly less than 25% more damage, unless you're looking at a Thresh in a 4 hour game.

There is no possible way for Yasuo to come out ahead from the crit rework.

what is stopping him from going press the attack with IE?

princeblumpkinMay 14, 20185 votes

{quoted}

He will be dealing like 80% true damage or something, which is disgusting when combined with his low counterplay kit.

The fact that you think that Yasuo has a low counterplay kit is incredibly telling. Part of the reason that Yasuo is so difficult to balance is because he has tons of counterplay that is hard to execute, so he stomps in low elo and sucks in high elo.

Dope SoloMay 14, 20182 votes

Do does Garen. You don't see them giving him buffs.

Madsin25May 15, 20182 votes

Is this a joke?

They just massively buffed garen last patch.

Madsin25May 15, 20182 votes

This might have been a true statement before conqueror came out but that just is not the case anymore.

He can chunk you out with conqueror starting from level 2, and god forbid you actually can't tank 4 autos and feed him a kill.

Yea sure he has lot's of counterplay, but it is extremely hard to outplay assassin like damage at all stages of the game no matter who you are.

CIassD PersonnelMay 15, 20183 votes

Shut up lol, You probably main veigar, Whom needs a real nerf, Yasuo hasn't been good for a while and the IE Changes are a nerf anyways, Yasuo needs a buff smh

BârdMay 15, 201819 votes

Veigar?

Really?

Veigar?

ZerοMay 16, 20182 votes

Here are some facts... Yasuo has not actually reached pick/ban status in pro play. Yasuo has a 48.97% winrate across all tiers. Yasuo's banrate gets lower the higher your ELO is. Yasuo will be nerfed through 8.11's crit itemization changes; in fact, it is likely he will be buffed in 8.12 if 8.11 nerfs him too hard.

Yasuo is completely fine. The only people who have problems with him are people completely unable to adapt their playstyle to an unorthodox champion, and people who main mages or ADCs.

Coming to the Boards to moan and cry like this won't change anything; luckily, Yasuo has a big enough playerbase that Riot can straight up ignore this kind of childishness. Many other champions have been harshly gutted because of the raging lamentations of the Silver/Bronze community, and it's honestly a shame. If you people spent some time learning how to adapt to a champion like Yasuo there would be no need for this kind of threads.

Emerald FangMay 18, 20182 votes

Even as a mage he's easy as hell to deal with, and I'm in bronze 3... Pick Veigar or Cass or Annie or anyone with a non-projectile stun.

Jungler impactOct 27, 20192 votes

Sorry but won't be nerfed. u need iq and skill to play yasuo at a decent level to don t talk about experience

KZ EngelMay 15, 20181 votes

i like how my prediction when i first saw conq was correct

it's going to break yas in the low and high extremes of gameplay and he's going to get nerfs that he doesn't deserve instead of the actual problem being addressed

also, keep in mind his crit cloak spike is being removed, his pd spike is being delayed by 200-300g, his ie spike is being delayed by 300g, he's losing the +50% damage from ie, and his full build is going to be wasting 20% crit

wait until the crit changes to see what's going to happen. riot is doing just that, because they know the crit changes are going to have a huge effect on yas

The Bad TouchMay 15, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=KZ Engel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dc5yq3i9,comment-id=0033,timestamp=2018-05-15T21:58:08.591+0000)

i like how my prediction when i first saw conq was correct

it's going to break yas in the low and high extremes of gameplay and he's going to get nerfs that he doesn't deserve instead of the actual problem being addressed

also, keep in mind his crit cloak spike is being removed, his pd spike is being delayed by 200-300g, his ie spike is being delayed by 300g, he's losing the +50% damage from ie, and his full build is going to be wasting 20% crit

wait until the crit changes to see what's going to happen. riot is doing just that, because they know the crit changes are going to have a huge effect on yas

Let's say you have 200 AD and 100% crit with current IE.

You will do 500 damage before armor on autos.

vs 50 armor ~333 damage on an auto. vs 100 armor ~250 damage on an auto. vs 200 armor ~167 damage on an auto (Not calculating tabis/randuins here.)

with conqueror: vs 50 armor ~386 damage vs 100 armor ~300 damage vs 200 armor ~232 damage

After IE change vs 50 armor ~294 damage vs 100 armor ~240 damage vs 200 armor ~186 damage

with conqueror: vs 50 armor ~316 damage vs 100 armor ~272 damage vs 200 armor ~228 damage

He's losing a fair amount of mid late game damage. He's still going to sit it lane and farm for 1/2 the game. He's still going to cockblock ultimates with his W. He's still a source of long duration CC. Neither of those require him to either win lane or actually deal any damage.

All the IE nerf is going to change is he "might" need to fit in an extra auto to kill a squishy late game. Against anyone building 1-2 armor items there won't really be a notable difference.

Note that I didn't figure his ulti in on this and it WOULD make make a slight difference vs targets with LOTS of armor.