Can we get a Red response concerning "League of Ardent Censor"?

The Bad Touch·Oct 7, 2017·33 votes·1,421 views

As the title says.

The "nerf" ended up buffing the item for team fighting. In the pre"nerf(lol)" World's patch it's in every single game twice. Solo queue is people reporting people for not building it atm, and for not playing a support/adc that makes good use of it.

It's now considered a troll pick/int feeding if you don't play around that item. Lethality meta was bad... but at least it wasn't everyone dying in 2 seconds to 5 massive autos.

21 Comments

notice me Sin piOct 7, 20176 votes

u know something is wrong when teammates occasionally would rather have u play Kayle item 3504 than a Leona support

AirKingNeoOct 7, 20176 votes

They wouldn't dare. Balance has been so bad this season, so much drastically worse than Season 6, that if you don't believe the balance team is a failure by now, you're either too stupid, too ignorant, or in flat out denial.

Pantheon, Akali, Gnar, and Jayce are ruining top lane. This has gone on for almost the entire season, and definitely the entire season for Pantheon and Jayce. Do keep in mind Akali was buffed despite having a very good winrate top lane.
Aatrox was updated then forgotten about. Even recent buffs don't do him enough justice. Still the only bruiser without an anti-tank mechanic.
BoRK and Cleaver have been nerfed repeatedly leaving his items in poor places. Even the current Sterak's buffs are shitty because the cost is going up by 600.
Bramble Vest was introduced, not making it's passive against ranged only, and still, after months, is making many bruisers unviable.
Maokai's update was a failure that did nothing and then they buffed his passive. Oh, and why does Maokai have better base AD and better base AS than Jax?
Coin, after being broken for multiple patches, still hasn't been given a nerf to gold gen. Despite support powercreep being a huge issue, Riot thinks they need more buffs. Then again, Meddler is a support main.
Infinity Edge gives too much Critical damage boost, Shiv gives too much waveclear, Essence Reaver gives too much CDR, and Warlords is just way to fucking strong. Again, still completely untouched.
Support items have been powercreeped and Riot refuses to nerf them. Redemption? Locket? Knight's Vow? Ardent? These items need quite a nerf.
Tanks have too much CC and tankiness that only ADCs can even hurt them, and that's at a decent rate. The fact Stoneplate exists and dictates the competitive play meta for top lane (except Jax who can abuse Ardent Censer and Jayce who is just broken in general) is very disgusting.
Lulu still has a 2.25 second Polymorph. Rakan's RW combo is still insanely broken.
Ardent Censer 'needed' compensation buffs, again because Meddler is a support main, so it looks like they did their job when in reality it's the same strength.
Catchup EXP in the jungle is still in terrible shape.
Janna's "nerfs" ending up being a huge massive buff, as I predicted, and now we realize that maybe the balance team has no clue how to balance.

DuskDaUmbreonOct 7, 20174 votes

but at least it wasn't everyone dying in 2 seconds to 5 massive autos.

That requires absolutely maxed attack speed to even hit at that rate. Pretty sure that the only champion that can even hit that outside of URF is Kog'maw, and then he still takes 8-10 hits you kill you.

It Hertz When IPOct 7, 20172 votes

That and it's an AS/On-hit life drain item.... it doesn't make the auto's "massive". That's ADC itemization that does that.

xelakerOct 8, 20173 votes

what the fuck do you play that takes 10 autos to kill where you aren't super ahead or the enemy adc isn't building 6 warmogs...

Athenes LuluOct 7, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JyLA9oY7,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-07T13:08:39.274+0000)

It's now considered a troll pick/int feeding if you don't play around that item. Lethality meta was bad... but at least it wasn't everyone dying in 2 seconds to 5 massive autos.

As a Lulu main whose backup are all enchanters, so much this.

I guess the current version (where the caster themselves also get the buff) is Riot's attempt at trying to make Ardent Censor more "interactive", without realizing that it's still a "stat check simulator" item.

The Bad TouchOct 7, 20172 votes

A Twitch with a base of attack speed of .679 need 369% bonus attack speed to cap. Standard runes/masteries add 17.5%. W add's 50% PD add's 40% RFC add's 30% Static add's 35% Boot's add 35% Level 18 add's 57.5%

That's 265%

Ardent brings that to 300% For a total attack speed of 2.01

Using Trist as an example she's have:

Base of .656 neeing 381% to cap. Standard runes/masteries add 17.5%. Q add's 110% PD add's 40% RFC add's 30% Static add's 35% Boot's add 35% Level 18 add's 25.5%

That's 293%

Ardent brings that to 328% For a total attack speed of 2.15

So yeh excuse me it's ~4 attacks in 2 seconds, 5 in under 2.5. Not exactly that far off. :)

Also Ardent doesn't give healing on hit anymore. It add's up to 35 magic damage on hit. After you figure in how annoying Janna/Lulu shields are and how they also increase damage, it becomes pick or ban ery quickly. Even when picked Ardent itself is so strong that even supports like Taric and Jungles like Ivern are taking it.

35% AS and 35 on hit is in itself something like 1500g value (haven't done the math on that one but it's a decemt ballpark.) Having that effect 5 champions just because Raka/Jana hit R is a ridiculous amount of stats to deal with. Not to mention the item itself is perfectly optimized stat wise giving those champs everything they need in one cheap item. A cheap item that gives 4500g worth of stats for 6 seconds every team fight (longer with Janna R) is obsurd. Hell Riot removed aura items and they weren't even in the realm of this powerful.

Think of it like this. How would you feel if the enemy team got a free IE+ change every game just because your team didn't pick a meta support? That is effectively what we are talking about.

When you have adc's building relic/targons just so their support gets Ardent faster so you can win... there is an issue.

SwagsogwaOct 7, 20173 votes

Ardent censer in his last iteration doesn't give drain anymore but just onhit and attack speed. It is probably not at all broken like the drain ardent censer. The worlds are happening on 7.18, where the drain STILL EXISTS.

KhristophorosOct 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Ardent censer in his last iteration doesn't give drain anymore but just onhit and attack speed. It is probably not at all broken like the drain ardent censer. The worlds are happening on 7.18, where the drain STILL EXISTS.

they buffed the AS and damage, and now it also applies to the support using it so it's actually way more damage. it's still broken as fuck.

xJLx MCHammerOct 7, 20171 votes

Riot will continously ignore this

Pretend that it's not a problem, hoping that once the Season 8 comes they can address it indirectly.

They will probably end up buffing an item to bring it in line with ardent...>

Hell, even in resent Riot discussion, they wont even admit Ardent is a problem, rather they tried to make the issue about other items like item 3190

ThefrostyvikingOct 7, 20171 votes

Worlds is played in a earlier patch were the item wasnt nerfed thus it's still ridiculously strong there.

As for the current state, it's still insanely strong.

What was it again.....20-30% bonus attackspeed+on hit damage for everyone affected by heals and shields?

For a marksman that's already like 1,8 - 2,2 k gold worth of stats, and we aren't even counting the stats for the support on that.

And the value increases for each person affected.

That item is probably the most cost effective in the entire game, especially on those with AOE heals and shields in a team with several auto attackers.

It goes beyond insanity in a few rare cases, while remaining absolutely necessary in 95% of the remaining cases.

FairyfleurOct 8, 20171 votes

if it was really this broken I think you'd see higher play rates on enchanters https://i.gyazo.com/ce1fe10fcbc8d2a15cf906abbdabdb4b.png

The Bad TouchOct 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

if it was really this broken I think you'd see higher play rates on enchanters https://i.gyazo.com/ce1fe10fcbc8d2a15cf906abbdabdb4b.png

Champ----Role----WIn-%----Play-% Sona Support 54.47% 6.59% Janna Support 54.19% 12.79% Soraka Support 54.08% 9.44% Taric Support 52.65% 3.40% Lulu Support 50.60% 11.92%

The 5 most frequent users of Ardent Censor all have above average to great win rates.

Their play rates fill 3 of the top 9 slots in the game.

Tristana
Vayne
Thresh
Xayah
Janna
Lee Sin
Lulu
Caitlyn
Soraka

Out of the top 9 champs played only two are not a primary autoattack ADC/hypercarry or an Ardent Censor Support.

Out of the most played champions 4 are under 50% win rate, including both the Thresh(47%) and Lee Sin(48%). Xayah/Caitlyn are both in the 49th percentile.

The only reason Ardent Censor sups don't have a higher win rate (and they hold the top 4 support slots mind you) is that at this point in the meta it's generally always Ardent Censor vs Ardent Censor.

If you look at the top 5 supports via play rate you have Thresh, Janna, Lulu, Soraka, Raken. Lulu/Janna/Raka sitting at 51-54% win rate, and then you have Thresh/Rakan sitting at 47-48% win rate.

So many people see 47% WR and 54% WR and think "That's not really much of a difference." Well thats very wrong. It's the difference in going 47-53 and 54-46 out of 100 games. It's the differnce in losing 60LP just because you don't play meta, and gaining 80LP because you do. A 120LP difference is pretty damn large just because you prefer to play Thresh over Janna. It's a 14.9% difference.

It's the difference in being Gold 2 80LP and Plat 5 0LP.

Also don't forget that World's is locked into 7.18. Changing Ardent has no impact on worlds, so it could use a change. :P I've seen less broken things get hotfixed in hours.

Zone of EndlessOct 8, 20171 votes

I'm certain they'll do something about it after worlds. Right now they don't want to make big changes that will affect proplay. It suck but that's what it is.

SwiftKitten88Oct 8, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zone of Endless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JyLA9oY7,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-10-08T01:33:09.201+0000)

I'm certain they'll do something about it after worlds. Right now they don't want to make big changes that will affect proplay. It suck but that's what it is.

yet another person that has no concept that it HAS been addressed ALREADY and worlds isn't even on the same patch was we are

Zone of EndlessOct 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

yet another person that has no concept that it HAS been addressed ALREADY and worlds isn't even on the same patch was we are

???

Isn't that what i said?

"I'm certain they'll do something about it after worlds"

They, more than likely, already acknowledge it's still a problem even after all those changes and most likely will deal with it after worlds. If they make any big changes now the game you're playing will feel different than proplay which is why Riot doesn't want.