Quick Design Question For Veigar Players

GuiltyGecko··1 votes·742 views

So I recently played Veigar just to see if I would like him, and noticed how ancient he feels. Not his play pattern, that was fine. What I mean, is that his Mana cost are crazy stupid. I know that Veigar players have gotten used to managing the cost, and I know that IT WORKS as is, but it could BE BETTER.

What I am saying, is that I think Veigar's mana cost should be updated. For example, ults usually cost 100 mana now. Veigar's cost 225 at rank 3. Also his W and E have mana cost above 100.

Now I know what you're saying "But now he'll be OP cuz of his passive!" Well that's the thing. Would Veigar players like the mana cost to go down across the board, and then Veigar get a new passive? The lower mana cost would replace the old passive, and Veigar could get something new and interesting besides just a passive stat that only affects him.

Again, I am aware that Veigar is FINE as he is, but I believe he could be BETTER. If Veigar got lower mana cost, and a new passive, what would it be?

7 Comments

Wheatloaf1 votes

I'd be interested to see what sort of passive he'd get... Probably something that scales off AP, like giving his abilities bonuses at certain AP amounts? That would be a little snowball-y, though, not that he doesn't already snowball like a freight train.

Eapenator1 votes

Veigar has had a history of really weird passives, mostly because his kit is so good on his own that adding any sort of passive would probably be over kill.

Also veigar is one of those champs that they will never want to become competitively viable, because his combo has zero counter play (instant stun), and is a quick short burst.

To add a new passive, they would have to nerf something on his kit. the question is, what would it be....

Protonic1 votes

You bring up an interesting point that reminds of the many threads I've seen that go on about the further normalizing of ultimate mana costs to 100. Admittedly you appear to going one better and critiquing the whole of Veigar's mana costs, which are indeed one of the higher costs (when leveled up). As someone's who played Veigar quite a few times, I understand the concern for "outdated" mana costs, as without mana items the pool is exhausted quickly (hence when tear into AA staff is so common). This is the reason I do the building of him that tried to minimize his cost, while trying to get the most usefulness out of my mana, that is to forgo leveling his dark matter beyond one, because the level up damage and cooldown is insignificant in comparison to the utility of his baleful strike and event horizon (Dmg + AP + Stun).

Now, as for changing the costs, I believe that it is possible to make them more desirable and less famishing, particularly with Dark Matter (aka, a reason to level it). The only problem I see with such changes is that likely something would have to be taken out of the abilities to compensate (I do not mean the passive), and I say this because Veigar has the unique quality of getting AP for kills, therefore i theory his abilities have the potential to be more powerful than others of a similar caliber, which they certainly can be. Personally I'd rather not see his abilities gutted just for mana costs, but if its only a minor change I could deal with it I suppose.

Now as for the passive, I kinda of miss his old passive, but think it too powerful to implement without serious consideration to the power level. If you don't know what it was it was called Entropy, and it applied a debuff to his enemies when struck that "stole" AP. Now a passive that gives him more AP is a double edged sword, as further gutting would have to occur for the power.

Personally overall I think he's fine as is, but would a tuning be uncalled for, not really. I think the costs for his abilities are fair because the scaling and utility they bring, especially with a mana regeneration passive of any description. With that note I find the passive acceptable, but would something else kill him, no. I hope that was somewhat insightful.

COLDasICE GATOR1 votes

it could cost a percentage of his maximum mana

Hyrum Graff1 votes

A change that would be a small buff and QOL buff to veigar without adding anything new to his kit that would require excessive nerfing, would be to move his AP on kill to his passive. I don't have the motivation to type up why on my phone, but if you give me a notification/reply I'll do it when I get to my computer.

GuiltyGecko1 votes

GO FOR IT!

Hyrum Graff2 votes

Ok. Here's what I've noticed:

  • Veigar runs oom very quickly in lane. (2 rotations, something like that).
  • Due to his passive, he regens mana very quickly, too
  • This mana regen is highest when veigar is oom.
  • Veigar can only sustain his q spam/farming when he's nearly oom.
    • Therefore, Veigar never has enough mana to do a full combo
    • Full combos are the only way for Veigar to win trades.
      • Veigar can't win trades

If you rebalanced Veigar's mana costs so that he's got less regen, but lower mana costs, he can do more combos before he runs oom. Therefore, he'll be able to trade successfully with his opponent.

You might argue that a Veigar who is able to trade, would be OP. I think it's just opening up gameplay choices, and more routes to mastery. Because you have less regen, if you choose to spend your mana on trading, you're going to end up with less mana for Q stacks. It's a meaningful choice. And, much as I love veigar right now, his only choice is really to farm Q as much as possible during laning, and harass only as much as needed to keep the enemy from preventing you from farming.

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