Vayne is ripping everyone a new asshole with stacked Energize items-

Rebonack·Dec 2, 2015·58 votes·5,134 views

-but nah, man. Let's nerf Kog'Maw.

EDIT: Energize now overlaps instead of stacking. Thank God.

Still wouldn't mind an explanation on the Kog buff/NERF though.

96 Comments

ZedexDec 2, 201514 votes

Uh, those were actually buffs to Koggy's overall damage against high HP targets.

But sure, you can call them nerfs all you want and continue crying about Vayne when MF and Graves are 10x stronger then her and more contested in the higher levels of play.

AnidanDec 3, 20153 votes

Those two are not more contested than Plat+ 34% pick-rate, 14% ban-rate Vayne with a combined P+B rate of 17% (MF) and 19% (Graves). Even if you combine MF and Graves' P+B rates, they still fall short of Vayne's 48% P+B rate.

Vayne's far more contested than both.

Also, good on Koggy for his buff.

TDubHDec 3, 20151 votes

IIRC this isn't true this is a nerf on kog'maws late game a buff to his early game.

He now get 2% hp damage from the get-go but has no AD scaling, so beyond 75 bonus AD Koggy starts losing out...

Shac NorrisDec 2, 20156 votes

ripping everyone a new asshole

-_-

Yeah i'm upvoting you

RalanrDec 2, 20155 votes

I haven't noticed Vayne being stupid.

RebonackDec 2, 20157 votes

{quoted}

I haven't noticed Vayne being stupid.

Only because Quinn is worse right now. Vayne is arguably stronger than she was before the minor nerfs she took before the Pre-Season patch went live. And Vayne makes a good contrast to Koggy since they (along with Twitch) are the only champions with true Hyper-Carry growth curves.

RalanrDec 2, 20153 votes

Everytime i see Vayne she's been rather useless.

Wolfram OxfordDec 2, 20153 votes

Draven will rip vayne a new ass hole

RebonackDec 2, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dOhE697v,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-02T18:00:43.016+0000)

will rip vayne a new ass hole

Draven needs to invest in some good lube, then.

RandomoniumDec 2, 20158 votes

Her support's tears are enough lube.

MatezoideDec 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Draven needs to invest in some good lube, then.

Noxus makes the best lube dw

100% natural with the tears and blood of slaves.

LhostalisDec 3, 20152 votes

*Orphans of Demacia. Not slaves

Spicy RiceDec 3, 20151 votes

Is there a difference?

hi im alphonseDec 3, 20153 votes

Nah man, go dry or go home

FadedpfDec 2, 20153 votes

Nothings changed. They just BUFFED THE LITERAL SHIT OUT OF HER W. Tired of her abusing those items, critting, getting extra crit, waveclear, magic damage, extra ranged auto, movespeed/attack speed while still shredding your anus with her W and ult steroid. Vayne cant remain like this forever.. Riot needs to actually do something

AquariusGineDec 2, 20153 votes

And I thought I was the only one who felt Vayne is a bit over the top this patch..

fééd l0rdDec 2, 20153 votes

Play Draven against her and shut her down early, or Graves, or Lucian. If you are not able to fck her in lane and bully her out of lane multiple times it is your fault that you lost against her.

Her early is weak as fuck and she is building 2 AS items, while having less ad per level than nearly everyone while there are items like ER or BT.

RebonackDec 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Play Draven against her and shut her down early, or Graves, or Lucian. If you are not able to fck her in lane and bully her out of lane multiple times it is your fault that you lost against her.

Her early is weak as fuck and she is building 2 AS items, while having less ad per level than nearly everyone while there are items like ER or BT.

Let me spell out the purpose of this topic.

Kog is a hyper-carry. Vayne is a hyper-carry. Vayne is doing great (and has been for months now). Kog is arguably the weakest ADC pick on Rift right now. Kog is getting a tiny bit more power early, but losing a significant amount of power late. In spite of having a better early game than Kog, Vayne can also put out comparable damage (higher damage against hard targets) while bringing hard CC to the table.

Thus, I'm questioning why Kog requires a small buff paired with a large nerf instead of just bumping up his base HP by 20.

elon wątrobaDec 2, 20151 votes

kog sucks in yolo q. He will be played in lcs and stuff i guess.

RebonackDec 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

kog sucks in yolo q. He will be played in lcs and stuff i guess.

Riot balances around Plat/Diamond Solo and only makes LCS based nerfs when something is wildly too powerful there.

fééd l0rdDec 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Let me spell out the purpose of this topic.

Kog is a hyper-carry. Vayne is a hyper-carry. Vayne is doing great (and has been for months now). Kog is arguably the weakest ADC pick on Rift right now. Kog is getting a tiny bit more power early, but losing a significant amount of power late. In spite of having a better early game than Kog, Vayne can also put out comparable damage (higher damage against hard targets) while bringing hard CC to the table.

Thus, I'm questioning why Kog requires a small buff paired with a large nerf instead of just bumping up his base HP by 20.

Let me spell out the purpose of my answer.

I think Vayne is fine and she is. Hella weak early, hella strong late.

Kog is shit and deserves to be better. This has nothing to do with Vayne and she is fine.

Buff Kog, don't cry about Vayne. Maybe do something against the synergy between those statiks items and she will be even weaker earlier on but still fine. There is no need to compare those two. I want all ADC's to be strong and all other champions too, noone of them should be weak in generell and none of them shouldn't be viable in certain metas. We shouldn't nerf champions which are fine just because others suck d.

RebonackDec 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Let me spell out the purpose of my answer.

I think Vayne is fine and she is. Hella weak early, hella strong late.

Kog is shit and deserves to be better. This has nothing to do with Vayne and she is fine.

Less a complaint about Vayne and more a complaint about Energize stacking, but that's being addressed this patch now (yay) so that's nice.

Would be nice if Kog were getting actual buffs, though.

fééd l0rdDec 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Less a complaint about Vayne and more a complaint about Energize stacking, but that's being addressed this patch now (yay) so that's nice.

Would be nice if Kog were getting actual buffs, though.

Kog will receive buffs I could promise.

Bio-Arcane Barrage (W)
    No longer has an 1.25% AD ratio.
    Now also deals 2% flat damage

This is better than having the ad ratio since kogmaw isnt stacking ad :)

LhostalisDec 3, 20151 votes

Tell that to every hyper-tank ever. They'll disagree completely, % HP is a really, really, stupid mechanic. They need to completely rework her because 12% HP damage with BotRK is really, really, really, stupid. their are other ways to make a hypercarry that's not stupidly hard to balance.

fééd l0rdDec 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Tell that to every hyper-tank ever. They'll disagree completely, % HP is a really, really, stupid mechanic. They need to completely rework her because 12% HP damage with BotRK is really, really, really, stupid. their are other ways to make a hypercarry that's not stupidly hard to balance.

Oh no! There is counterplay against braindead health and armor stacking. God why ??? She is superstrong against tanks and that's how she is supposed to be. Jinx isn't as strong against tanks but she is better against squishies and koggles is supposed to be a hyprcarry against squishies mostly.

hi im alphonseDec 3, 20151 votes

Ok, but who is she supposed to be weak against?

Assassins are kinda iffy, what with her stealth, mobility, and condemn

Bruisers are obviously out for the same reasons as tanks, and if the Vayne isnt a paste eater, she shouldnt get hit by AoE

How SHOULD we beat vayne then? Other late game monsters have something that makes them stoppable (Nasus and his asstastic mobility, Ryze's relativley short range and immobility, GP's reliance on barrels, Kog being a squishy slow wormy etc.)

What do you think should be able to beat vayne?

SH AzykanDec 3, 20151 votes

long range poke, superior teamfight damage (like Jinx), Hard CC (yes I know it is an answer to more than just her but it is a legitimate answer as she is short ranged and squishy), Split pushers with a way to either get on her or to just back off.

Or just straight up ranged* burst *-things like leblanc/Akali work as well as they jump on her once and she is dead

SpoofghoulDec 3, 20151 votes

Vayne has average range

Graves has shortrange

SH AzykanDec 3, 20151 votes

she has to be at 550 range to do any damage at all; most adcs, including graves, have ways to do damage at a longer range and to stay out of the way of cc until after it is blown (or you know just be graves and forgo the squishy part because he is actually way harder to kill than he should be)

LhostalisDec 3, 20151 votes

Oooooh no!!! Are they nerfing Last whisperer again? Oh wait, just get mortal reminder and you're set for tank killing without the BS % HP damage.

fééd l0rdDec 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Oooooh no!!! Are they nerfing Last whisperer again? Oh wait, just get mortal reminder and you're set for tank killing without the BS % HP damage.

why is tank killing wrong? I myself found it exremley frustrating to play against something I could barely kill as ADC allthogh it does not take skill beeing unkillable.

SpoofghoulDec 3, 20151 votes

Rightclicking is sooooooo skillfull tho

TheGr8WhiteDDec 3, 20151 votes

Im sorry, but im more scared of a kogmaw than a Ezreal

RebonackDec 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Im sorry, but im more scared of a kogmaw than a

And yet Ez does more damage on average over the course of a game than Koggy does.

Crazy strong spammable poke will do that.

HayRossDec 2, 20153 votes

We WOULD nerf her, but she makes #LC$B!GPLAYZ, so no

RebonackDec 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We WOULD nerf her, but she makes #LC$B!GPLAYZ, so no

Condemned the nerf hammer into a wall.

420 StylishDec 2, 20153 votes

Nothing like getting slammed with magic damage, physical damage, and true damage!

On a serious note, if they were to actually give her a meaningful nerf i'd say to start by chipping away at her AD buff from her ult. That way she's not as well off for rushing the two AS energy items, statikk and rapidfire cannon. As is, she rushes those two items, giving her quite a bunch of attack speed and a LOT of on hit damage, along with the crit chance which even further increases her damage, and her ult slightly makes up for her lack of actual AD. Sure, her AD buff on her ult isn't insane and doesn't make up for her lack of AD from items, but it still does quite a good job of making up for the lack of AD. Either that or just change the way those two items interact(make their passives not interact at all) and I'm sure she'd be fine. Either way I still hate the bitch, but she'd be a lot less annoying then.

Then again, I don't play Vayne nor ADCs at all really for that matter, so my first nerf idea might be shit.

Edit The two items damage now overlap and no longer synergize.

devdev463Dec 2, 20152 votes

I see a vayne literally 100% of the time in d5

RebonackDec 2, 20152 votes

Oh thank God, Energize now overlaps instead of stacking on the PBE.

TheVishualDec 3, 20152 votes

Vayne has been broken for at least 5 or 6 patches... probably more.

The biggest buff to vayne wasn't even the energize items, it was the fact you can't use oracle anymore for truesight on stealth champs (and people dont have item slots for pink ward late game)

Call A DrDec 3, 20152 votes

Vayne is stupidly OP.

Late game, she ascends basic champion and becomes a god, there is not one champ that stands a chance, "2 HIT RENGAR COMIN FOR VAYNE, HE JUMPS OUT THE BRUSH, LANDS DIRECTLY ONTO VAYNE" "Vayne, tumbles away, and shoots a bolt so powerful, it forces rengar away, Vayne then continues to shoot rengar, and rengar dies"

That's vayne vs a 2 hit invis bruiser

AMUMU See's vayne alone in mid lane, Amu is stacked with red and blue buff, and 300+ armor, even a tmail, how can he lose right? He lands his bandage toss, uses all of his skill, just before the stun of the bandage toss runs out, he snares her with his R, doing wallops of damage, Vayne uses heal, tumbles away, and knocks him back, doing no damage, until the 3rd hit, repeatidly doing this damage until Amumu is no more than a pile of bandages.

Amumu looks at the damage dealt, 200 normal damage, 500 tumble damage, 1300 true dmg.

Erm what more do you want to know ?XD

I can repeat the scenario's as MF or ashe or graves if u want XD

But I am sure you are smart enough to know how it goes ;)

ElegantDogeDec 3, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call A Dr,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dOhE697v,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2015-12-03T12:26:42.909+0000)

Vayne is stupidly OP.

Late game, she ascends basic champion and becomes a god, there is not one champ that stands a chance, "2 HIT RENGAR COMIN FOR VAYNE, HE JUMPS OUT THE BRUSH, LANDS DIRECTLY ONTO VAYNE" "Vayne, tumbles away, and shoots a bolt so powerful, it forces rengar away, Vayne then continues to shoot rengar, and rengar dies"

That's vayne vs a 2 hit invis bruiser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGDFOeuVlM

Have fun.

AlëkDec 3, 20151 votes

Also now that Mercurial scimitar is a legitimate item to buy on ADC's that CC and Zed ult that was so good on ADC's is now MUCH less impactful. I had a miss fortune buy it as a third item after her core essence reaver and shiv, while i was playing Zed and shut me down consistently, which was very bad for our team fights as she just removed my ult and then proceeded to shred the entire team. On Vayne pretty much the same thing. Before Ashe used to be able to beat her in a duel if she managed to land her ult. But not anymore folks

RysophageDec 3, 20152 votes

Actually vayne's not even the problem. caitlyn rocks that build ALOT better. So does jinx.

Ariel the CruelDec 3, 20151 votes

Aw, But I like 1-shotting Teemo With Cait's headshots! item 3078 item 3094 item 3087 item 3031 item 3036 item 1310

EcchiOtakuTMDec 2, 20151 votes

13 It's pretty obvious what riot has to do.....

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yYBm9rXq-i-honestly-love-the-changes-placed-in-however-i-as-well-as-many-have-a-few-suggestions

RebonackDec 2, 20155 votes

{quoted}

13 It's pretty obvious what riot has to do.....

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yYBm9rXq-i-honestly-love-the-changes-placed-in-however-i-as-well-as-many-have-a-few-suggestions

Making it so the Energize attacks overlap rather than stacking would help a ton.