is there any particular eason why runes give odd amounts? like +4.95 ap quints.. that get rounded to 5 anyway or like +.83% CDR... we cant simply get 1%? what are w gonna do with .15% cdr anyway? or +.93% crit which may or may not be rounded up to 1% anyway edit; I really have no idea how this is getting upvotes
Done2511 votesRiot has needed to rebalance runes for AGES. But for what ever reason they keep putting off what's easily a 30 min job.
Nybx4life4 votesHow would they rebalance runes? and why would it be so easy?
Done251 votesHow would they rebalance runes? and why would it be so easy?
1 - All flat runes are removed/converted to scaling, Jungle damage is now nerfed accordingly since they don't have to account for Flat Armor Runes+Quints. 2 - All Primary Runes are equated to 75 gold per rune. All Quints are equated to 225 gold per Quint.
Old: 3 Scaling AD Red = 7.29 AD - 262.44 gold New: 3 Scaling AD Red = 6.25 AD - 225 gold
Old: 1 Scaling AD Quint = 4.5 AD - 162 gold New: 1 Scaling AD Quint = 6.25 AD - 225 gold
Old: 3 scaling AP Blue - 9.18 AP - 199.66 gold New: 3 scaling AP Blue - 10.35 AP - 225 gold
Old: 1 scaling AP Quint - 7.74 AP - 168.345 gold New: 1 scaling AP Quint - 10.35 AP - 225 gold
Look at how much larger the bonuses on the Quints are when they get updated to be normalized at the value of 3 regular Runes.
Frikgeek5 votesWhy? The current rune system is just fine. Some stats give lower stats(in terms of gold efficiency) because they're very powerful in lane with just 1 item. And the tradeoff between flat and scaling runes is a choice you have to make, why take that away and just give everyone free stats when they level up? Not to mention that AD and AP runes would become useless, as mpen/level would be far superior. There's a reason why Riot hasn't given us penetration/level crit/level, AS/level etc. runes. Those stats scale so much better than AD/AP with most builds anyway.
DeadlyQuestion15 votesNot agreeing with Done25's system, but the rune system is far from fine.
Frikgeek1 votesWhat exactly is wrong with it? The system I mean, not the individual runes. Almost all runes that give desirable stats are taken, except for %hp because those are just shit. manaregen and hpregen runes aren't taken because those aren't stats you'd want for lvl 1-6(before you start getting items). On a tank you'd always take cloth armor+pots over 2 beads and most midlaners have enough regen through a dring.
If runes could give you enough manaregen so that you don't have to itemize for it that would be kinda stupid.
Done251 votesNot agreeing with Done25's system, but the rune system is far from fine.
I literally worked out the logic for the system in like 30 seconds. It might not be the best, but it's a lot better than the current cluster guck of a mess we have now.
What would you personally suggest for runes to balance them with the least amount of time possible? (Otherwise they would never be able to find the man power to do it.)
GaleWinUnleashed2 votesThe point is it shouldn't take the least amount of time possible. If it does, then there wasn't enough thought put into the process, and we'll get a huge mess of runes to deal with.
Done251 votesThe point is it shouldn't take the least amount of time possible. If it does, then there wasn't enough thought put into the process, and we'll get a huge mess of runes to deal with.
We ALREADY have a mess of numbers. And Riot has said that they have other things they deem more vital to spend their time tuning. If they don't have an easy to do solution they most likely wont touch runes for at least another two Seasons.
Done251 votesWhy? The current rune system is just fine. Some stats give lower stats(in terms of gold efficiency) because they're very powerful in lane with just 1 item. And the tradeoff between flat and scaling runes is a choice you have to make, why take that away and just give everyone free stats when they level up? Not to mention that AD and AP runes would become useless, as mpen/level would be far superior. There's a reason why Riot hasn't given us penetration/level crit/level, AS/level etc. runes. Those stats scale so much better than AD/AP with most builds anyway.
Because flat runes can warp the game in very toxic ways.
Flat armor Poppy becoming impossible to kill with her passive+pots.
Flat AD runes turning pre-rework Garen into a murderus lawnmower at level 3~7 where you just rushed as much AD as possible and killed people in a single spin.
The flat yellow runes used to give +3 armor, but because EVERYONE used them they nerfed then and gave everyone the extra armor naturally at level one.
Speak of flat armor, these runes are why the jungle is so brutal. Champions like Lee Sin who should struggle to naturally clear would get flat armor yellows + quints and become invincible. If flat armor didn't exist the jungle wouldn't have to be so increadably overtuned!
Penetration is currently overpowred anyways, especially since the penetration rework, and should really be looked at.
Crit is also currently far too efficient, and is part of the reason why every single game has a marksman in bottom. It's far too easy to get them to their late game status and when they do they're almost unbeatable with a half decent team protecting them as they critical for 1000 dps a second.
TotalJerk1 votesIf flat armor didn't exist the jungle wouldn't have to be so increadably overtuned!
I'm gonna have to partially agree with you there. Some junglers literally cannot clear 1 camp without a leash until the player is high enough to have a decently sized tier 3 set. At low summoner levels, there are very few champions that are even remotely playable in the jungle.
Penetration is currently overpowred anyways, especially since the penetration rework, and should really be looked at.
To be fair the downside to using pen at level 1 is that it hardly helps with CSing. That isn't a problem for practiced players, but for newbs CSing without flat AD runes is frustrating. that's part of why I use them in lane whenever I get a champion with god awful waveclear.
Done251 votesI'm gonna have to partially agree with you there. Some junglers literally cannot clear 1 camp without a leash until the player is high enough to have a decently sized tier 3 set. At low summoner levels, there are very few champions that are even remotely playable in the jungle.
This is the biggest downside to flat stats in my opinion. It completely skews a champions expected early game power. The Lee Sin who finishes at 20~30% HP with no flat armor might finish with 60% HP if he has them. The first one would have to risk death to gank, the second one? Not so much...
To be fair the downside to using pen at level 1 is that it hardly helps with CSing. That isn't a problem for practiced players, but for newbs CSing without flat AD runes is frustrating. that's part of why I use them in lane whenever I get a champion with god awful waveclear.
Which is the problem with Flat AD. It takes champions who are awful at CSing early game (Ex. Vayne) and allows them a much easier time than they should have.
GaleWinUnleashed1 votesUsing flat over scaling runes (or vice versa) is a strategic decision you opt into each game. Removing it and effectively just giving everybody more per-level stats seems rather one-dimensional and boring.
Done251 votesUsing flat over scaling runes (or vice versa) is a strategic decision you opt into each game. Removing it and effectively just giving everybody more per-level stats seems rather one-dimensional and boring.
The problem is that Flat runes are extremely powerful and in worse case scenarios either blow a strong early game champion's power level completely out of the water, or effectively cover up a weaker early game to prevent it form beign as crippling as it should. (Such as Flat AD to let Marksmen last hit more easily.)
GaleWinUnleashed1 votesHypothetically, if lane opponents used the exact same flat runes, then they'd be more balanced against each other than they were without the runes. Adding the exact same number to both sides is more beneficial for the one that has lower numbers to start with, less so for the one that had higher numbers. It's an artificial system to set a narrower range of power at the start of the game, to help cover the effects of certain champions being over-/under-powered stats-wise. Balancing ability base damages and ratios is an entirely separate problem. The point is that flat runes help to even things out when looking purely at base stats.
Done251 votesHypothetically, if lane opponents used the exact same flat runes, then they'd be more balanced against each other than they were without the runes. Adding the exact same number to both sides is more beneficial for the one that has lower numbers to start with, less so for the one that had higher numbers. It's an artificial system to set a narrower range of power at the start of the game
Which is why Marksmen top can bully the supposedly "stronger" Fighters. Like the current Quinn top. The Quinn with a supposedly weaker early game to make up for her extra range is supported by the flat AD reds+quints to make her stronger than she should be.
GaleWinUnleashed1 votesThat's nothing to do with the runes, that's range. There's no inherent balance problem associated with the runes themselves. Fighters do have stronger base stats as a rule, there's nothing wrong with that. Quinn is attempting to narrow that imbalance, then taking advantage of her superior range and kiting options to make up for the fact that her stats are STILL lower than her opponent.
Done251 votesThat's nothing to do with the runes, that's range. There's no inherent balance problem associated with the runes themselves. Fighters do have stronger base stats as a rule, there's nothing wrong with that. Quinn is attempting to narrow that imbalance, then taking advantage of her superior range and kiting options to make up for the fact that her stats are STILL lower than her opponent.
The problem is that it lets her narrow it more than intended. The flat AD lets her last hit with less risk and boosts the early power of her passive + Vault. And before her we had Cait with her long range and Vayne with her Condemn + invisible Tumble.
GaleWinUnleashed1 votesI'm not attempting to argue for the balance of abilities or other mechanics, only the pure stats offered by flat runes (flat AD in particular). The fact remains that the more flat AD you give to both sides, the more even they are. As this bonus approaches infinity, the difference between the AD on both sides becomes negligible, essentially making it perfectly even regardless of the original base stats. If the numbers as they are now make things too even, then they can be lowered some in order to accentuate the intended differences in base stats. Removing them entirely, however, it too big a jump to make without properly considering side effects first.
Done251 votesI'm not attempting to argue for the balance of abilities or other mechanics, only the pure stats offered by flat runes (flat AD in particular). The fact remains that the more flat AD you give to both sides, the more even they are. As this bonus approaches infinity, the difference between the AD on both sides becomes negligible, essentially making it perfectly even regardless of the original base stats. If the numbers as they are now make things too even, then they can be lowered some in order to accentuate the intended differences in base stats. Removing them entirely, however, removes one tool Riot can use to help balance around base stats.
Wouldn't the easier thing to be just balancing the champion's stats themselves? Rather than trying to balance Quinn between having an AD of 5165, (depending on how much flat AD she's given rune wise) they can just balance her around what they think is right. Which is probably the 5155 range.
GaleWinUnleashed1 votesArguably, yes. However, that is a very time-intensive project, and doesn't take into account how upset the playerbase would be at having options removed.
Done251 votesArguably, yes. However, that is a very time-intensive project, and doesn't take into account how upset the playerbase would be at having options removed.
The flat option needs to go. I still argue that it can grossly warp the early game of Fighters and Marksmen in such ways that the character itself suffers for it because they have to be nerfed over an edge case. I'm sure all Marksmen are balanced with the player taking the +15 AD option in mind. So what happens to anyone who doesn't have or even WANT to bring the flat AD? Maybe they would like a bit more attack speed or crit to better round off their build.
The scaling runes still give you options of helping you let your character scale how YOU want them to scale. Let's say I'm playing Garen and I'm up against a physical damage heavy team. I can bring scaling armor Yellows and Quints to help make up for that. Or perhaps they have a more balanced team and I might want some attack damage to help me scale into the late game. Maybe instead of getting the Ionian Boots I'll grab the scaling CDR blues and grab the Mobility Boots for better roaming.
Frikgeek1 votesThe current quinn top would rape melee toplaners even if both of them had a blank runepage. I'd even say that letting the melee take scaling Hp seals+armor quints is in his favour, as 13 armour and a boost in hp(72 at 6, 216 at 18) is better than 15 AD. Besides, last hitting without flat AD runes isn't even difficult, have you ever played Ryze or Annie? Sure, Annie can lasthit with her Q, but once you stack up a stun it's just a waste to use it on creeps. And Ryze will go oom quickly if you use his spells to lasthit before you get tear+catalyst. And they both have around 55 AD. With some practice you can easily hit 220 at 20 mins(free farm lane, of course) with just autos and no bonus AD.
Also, a lot of marksmen are taking AS quints(4.5% AS per quint, 13.5% for 3) over flat AD, and some are taking lifesteal quints in tough matchups. Saying that every adc is balanced around flat AD marks and quints is just short-sighted.
Sailor Mint10 votesThere is no actual rounding in the calculations.
Xtractor5 votesBecause the numbers are calucated so that it gives nice and rounded numbers when using 6 or 9 of the same rune
straight4free3 votesWell the .83% CDR rounds out to 7.5% -- a nice, balanced number. With 1 Quint that's 10% cdr flat, which is very good since CDR has a hard cap.
EndlessSorcerer3 votesIt's a common misconception, but the stats provided by runes don't round to integer values for calculations. In-game, calculations are performed using floats/doubles and integer values are only used for display purposes.
As for why they chose those specific values, I would say that they wanted specific values to result when 9x marks, glyphs or seals or 3x quints were used. CDR glyphs were set to their current value so that 9 of them would give 7.5% CDR, which is half the value of the scaling CDR glyphs at max level.
I'm not sure about the exact reasoning being the other values. They may have been chosen to encourage/discourage certain starting purchases or early items or have players perceive or treat the value differently. For example, most stores will price an item at $4.95 or $4.99 instead of $5.00 to affect how expensive their customers perceive the item.
Kitten of Evil2 votesWell, .83%CDR is because 6 of them is a flat 5%, 9 is 7.50%
TheKingDodo2 votesthe runes were balanced by 
Cerbearus2 votesThey generally try to make them so they even out when you have 9 (3 for quints) of the same. the .83 comes out to almost exactly 7.5% with 9 of them, but yes some are just completely arbitrary numbers.
SlytherinUmbreon1 votesI think they did it this way so that Runes wouldn't benefit from the 5% boosts in masteries. Like, they started with 5 and then reduced that so that the AD multiplier would bring it up to 5.
Serage1 votes0,83 makes sense because you mostly take 9 of them which is 7,5% at the end. And you can combine is with 2,5% CD of quins and items...
Gorzke1 votesThey explained it, as how League is written, each exact number refers to a single rune/skill/mastery/etc., thats why they are odd numbers. In addition, 4.95 is not the exact number, it's 4.9500000... , as they pointed in an a Akalii post long time ago.
Irelia Bot1 votesA better question is why do .28 AD glyphs and the like exist?
And don't say so Chaox can post a video joking about it.
