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Why do people hate split pushing

Leti the Yeti··19 votes·8,409 views

{quoted}

I hate this generalization so much. It literally made me go from a serious player to being viewed as a trick2g wannabe

when did split pushing become instantly associated with trick2g

Why do people hate split pushing Udyr who are "never with the team" do they hate it because its a bad strategy? or is it cuz trick2g has given it a bad image? What it means when you have a split pusher, 1 guy goes on a yolo tower killing spree as the rest of the team plays passively

if you're losing, shouldnt you be playing passively? if you're winning? wouldnt a split pusher only end the game faster? think logically for a sec... if you are perfectly aware that you are at a disadvantage in numbers and in gold, why do you do what you do? why risk throwing the game by forcing a team fight that you WILL LOSE

I do not know the perspective of my team but to me... me abandoning them seems like the most logical choice to victory 5 man base turtle means

  • no one can go out and ward
  • no one can go out and secure objectives
  • they get free barons and dragons and any other turret
  • you make no advancement toward victory when all 5 of you are passively defending
  • you're 100% under siege and cannot do anything unless you miraculously ace them
  • the odds of the above are not likely if you are in fact losing

lets say you DO win the fight, what then? what can you do? kills dont win games.. objectives do and their is too much pressure at your base to go off and secure an objective, dont you wish you had a split pusher to alleviate some beforehand?

am I wrong? is all mid the only path to victory? can the other team afford to 5 v 4 my team as i take out their inhibitors anyway? which brings me to the other point

if they send 1 person to stop me, i assuming I didnt kill him, would it not be 4 v 4? if they dont send anyone to stop me, wouldnt I just win the game?

I find too many people have their judgment clouded in the heat of losing that anyone who is not sitting at base is not perceived as "helping"

99 Comments

Narasimha16 votes

People tend to dislike it because its the 'cheap' way to win. You're literally going for the win by ignoring everything that a team game stands for. You're saying "fuck you" not only to the enemy team, but your own team as well. Its essentially one of the most selfish actions there are. You're taking a PvP game and trying to make it PvE. Hell, they even have a term for it in DoTA 'Rat DoTA', because you're playing like a rat. You're sneaking around, chipping away until the enemy slowly crumbles. But I digress. The fundamental hatred of split pushing is a psychological issue all Mobas share. Yes, wiping their turrets out with Trynd and Nasus is a viable strategy. But theres a good reason no one will respect you for it.

Leti the Yeti7 votes

this is interesting I never thought about how people would hate split pushing because its a cheap way to win I only noticed how we get alot of hate from being compared to trick or how we are never with the team

kitcat3003 votes

I kind of does have this "dick move" feel to it in my opinion. Especially when it is all they do and nothing else. Hell, we could be winning because of it, but I still get mad at the guy when they refuse help us team fight.

TG Slice1 votes

Well, think about you- you have a team that can win fights, mop up the enemy, and execute synergies very well. Normally, this would be enough to win you the game- but no, it isn't. Because the enemy Tryndamere has been split pushing all game long and just took an inhib while you were busy fighting. Which means you can't push off of your win, because now you and your team are locked inside your base for the next 4 minutes while the inhib respawns. If you ignore it, the super creeps kill your nexus. And during that time, the enemy team has free reign of the map, which leads to more towers/inhibs dropping because you just can't stop them. And suddenly, it doesn't matter that you were winning fights, because split push has made all of it a moot point.

It's nothing short of infuriating.

Only Play Darius3 votes

Yea well fact is that in a 5v5 teamfight there isn't much a single person can do to make sure their team gets the ace, making it hard to carry.

Splitpushing is an excellent strategy, and the only people I imagine crying about it are the ones that start 5-man camping mid at 13 minutes and sticking together as a 5-man group literally the rest of the game. Players like that should just stick to ARAM if they are going to cry about someone pushing lanes that they chose to ignore.

You wanna stick together the entire game for easy kills? Be my guest, I'm just gonna splitpush while the rest of my team hugs the inner turret and holds you off. Once you realize you're not yet strong enough to overpower the turret, I will already have taken your inhibitor. Doesn't matter if your team has 20 more kills than mine, I took 2 inhibitors while you were busy murdering my team and guess what? Inhibitors win games, not kills.

People who prefer teamfights see this as a fighting game, people who prefer splitpushing see this as a strategy game.

I will admit that their are situations where grouping is necessary, and there are situations where splitpushing is superior strategy, and a big part of being able to close out games as quickly as possible is knowing when to group and knowing when to split, but people who say "we need to teamfight at all times, we HAVE to ace them before we take objectives" will be in bronze forever.

Also, in solo q, people like to splitpush because often they hate their teammates, more than likely for a good reason.

Narasimha1 votes

Yea well fact is that in a 5v5 teamfight there isn't much a single person can do to make sure their team gets the ace, making it hard to carry.

If everyone had that idea, teamfights would never happen. A team is more than just the sum of its parts.

You wanna stick together the entire game for easy kills? Be my guest, I'm just gonna splitpush while the rest of my team hugs the inner turret and holds you off. Once you realize you're not yet strong enough to overpower the turret, I will already have taken your inhibitor. Doesn't matter if your team has 20 more kills than mine, I took 2 inhibitors while you were busy murdering my team and guess what? Inhibitors win games, not kills.

And see, you just summed up my point PERFECTLY. My side worked as a team, while you're off there going "Me, myself, and I." Thats exactly why people hate it. Its an entirely selfish concept. You're not doing it for your team, you're doing it so YOU can have the glory, so YOU can say "Hey guys, I made us win!"And sure, I'm not saying winning isn't nice. But honestly? If my team worked together, did the best we could, and lost anyway? I'd take that any day.

I will admit that their are situations where grouping is necessary, and there are situations where splitpushing is superior strategy, and a big part of being able to close out games as quickly as possible is knowing when to group and knowing when to split, but people who say "we need to teamfight at all times, we HAVE to ace them before we take objectives" will be in bronze forever.

There is a world of difference between "Hey guys, we're stagnating here, why don't we have someone shove the side lanes?" and "Hey guys, I'm going to be top all game, see ya." Also, I'm not one to pull rank normally, but maybe you shouldn't make judgements about 'bronze actions', when in bronze yourself. Seems kind of...ironical.

Also, in solo q, people like to splitpush because often they hate their teammates, more than likely for a good reason.

Contrary to popular belief, most people do NOT hate their teammates. In fact, most of the time, they work together nicely. Especially as you climb in elos, you'll find that people realize that for better or worse, this is the team you've been given. If you want to win, may as well work with them. More back to the point though, people in solo que tend to splitpush because they see an opportunity (bait or not), or they're playing as a champion that they believe exists for splitpushing (Trynd, Nasus, Malz, etc).

Duke Anax1 votes

{quoted} I'm not saying winning isn't nice. But honestly? If my team worked together, did the best we could, and lost anyway? I'd take that any day.

Purposefully loosing just to be "together" isn't exactly doing the best you could.

Being together is not the same as working together and has nothing to do with being a Team.

Narasimha1 votes

If we 'purposefully' lost, then thats hardly the best we could do, is it? Well, I REALLY hope so. That would be an odd situation.

And as I've said before, there is a difference between purposefully sending someone to split push, and someone deciding thats how they'll win the game that way.

Duke Anax1 votes

Well if you say I rather loose this way than win that way...

Dar Raksada2 votes

I think you're talking past each other, it looks like Narashima means the type that splitpush all game - every game without pause or talking strategy with the team. While Duke seems to mean the strategic splitpushers

To add something as well, I love it when people splitpush at the right times, I've won games due to drawing fire/attention while the splitpusher destroys objectives, I've also lost games because people splitpushed at bad times and in the wrong teamcomps, timing is everything.

IcyPepper1 votes

You're literally going for the win by ignoring everything that a team game stands for.

Unless the split-pusher has permission and the team adjusts their gameplay to allow it? It's a strategy that either forces the enemy team to split up and send someone to defend, or the team gets objectives while turtling. In a team game, you have to use tactics and work together. You don't have to be grouped up all the time to get things done, and sometimes you have to trust one another. Using strategy and trusting one another IS part of a team game. If someone just goes off willy-nilly to split-push, then that's selfish. But if the team decides it's a good idea, then there's nothing wrong with it.

A team that's behind has a lower chance of winning a teamfight than the one ahead (assuming team comp has roughly the same synergy), so it's not always wise to force one.

And Baron buff is pretty much designed to hammer through a team turtling, so you can do it forever :/

Sirsir10 votes

Personally I don't like split pushers because its not as fun. Its a way to force a win. When your doing it while your winning I kinda feel like your just a tryhard douche (ranked notwithstanding, you should be tryharding then!). When your doing it while your losing most of the time it just feels like its prolonging the game you lose anyway because either your team doesn't do anything or your easy to 1v1.

Leti the Yeti4 votes

prolonging a game is a good thing your team doesnt have to do anything, they done enough damage lol if u cant 1v1 you shouldnt be splitting anyway

Sirsir1 votes

'Prolonging the game you lose anyway'

Leti the Yeti2 votes

I also made a thread regarding "why not surrender" it seems people are REALLY AGAINST SURRENDERING and now people are bitching bout prolonging the game

are u fking kidding me?

Sirsir2 votes

I'm not bitching... I thought we were trying to have a discussion. I present my point opinion and you go on about it?

A) Obviously I wasn't on your other thread. Different people different opinions. B) I said splitting would prolong the game, like refusing to surrender would. Ergo you are getting pissy about me agreeing with your general point.

Leti the Yeti2 votes

-stares sheepishly- whoops..

Only Play Darius10 votes

If a Riven on their team is fed, you must be crazy to think I am ever going to actually face her on even terms.

I don't care how dishonorable splitpushing is, all i'm going to do is push the lanes that Riven is far away from, and keep doing this until my team is farmed enough to actually take her on.

Blow me.

Leti the Yeti6 votes

lolthis I wonder why people dont see things this way more often theyre always like "team fight, cmon gais, just group up" wtf, that riven has a 180% AD scaling AoE cone execute, AoE stun, AoE knock up, AoE damage, FUCKING HYDRA??? like how building defense/or MR is a responsive decision, so is split pushing you learn from your mistakes, and that mistake was to continuously fuck with riven and feeding her, the consequences is now she is too overbearing to face but guess what, people dont learn and continue to on with their losing patterns

PatMcGroyn1 votes

Riven really isn't that hard to deal with in team fights, though. Her dashes are all a huge part of her DPS, so if she doesn't flash onto your back line, her damage really isn't that intimidating. All you need is some hard cc and proper focus, and Riven really isn't that threatening. If anything, I find her to be a more threatening split pusher because she's such a strong duelist, and has the mobility to escape well.

OblongOtter1 votes

If she's fed she can take out your front line on the way to the back line. I know, I've been that Riven.

PatMcGroyn1 votes

You would have to be insanely fed. I'm not saying it can't be done, but to do that you would have to be ridiculously fed, and you're still faced with the problem that your mobility is heavily tied to your DPS, so in getting to the back line, you lose a lot of your damage.

SlackerboyTC2 votes

{quoted}

Personally I don't like split pushers because its not as fun. Its a way to force a win. When your doing it while your winning I kinda feel like your just a tryhard douche (ranked notwithstanding, you should be tryharding then!). When your doing it while your losing most of the time it just feels like its prolonging the game you lose anyway because either your team doesn't do anything or your easy to 1v1.

I don't like the idea of one and only one way to win the game.

OblongOtter2 votes

I like being sneaky and pushing has always been my favorite thing (in my first MOBA, Awesomenauts, Lonestar was my favorite character because he was a great pusher) so I find split pushing fun. Also NEVER split push if you can't win/escape a 1v1. There seem to be 4 types of split pushers.

  • Those who do it because they love pushing. Pushing pushing pushing, objectives objectives objectives. (Myself included, also it's a good solo queue strategy)
  • Those who love objectives but are new and don't quite know how the ins and outs of it yet
  • Those who are fans of Trick
  • Those who are completely stupid and lose their team the game (like a Nasus who feeds Fizz crazy hard, then doesn't defend the inhib turret but instead goes for the tier 2 turret top lane, without teleport, ignores constant pings and calls for help as the fed fizz destroys your team without it's tank, and then only backs after they take your turret, inhib, and both your nexus towers)
Spacesuit Spiff6 votes

Thing is, 95% of the playerbase doesn't even do a headcount before hard engaging a 4v5, and then afterwards "wtf noob why weren't you here for the fight???"

Once lategame starts I basically stay with the team at all times, because if you so much as go to get wolves in the middle of a poke fight, you can be sure your Leo will fly into their team and everyone will follow.

Splitpushing works a lot better in plat/diam tho.

Aozora5 votes

Because a lot of people try to act like they're Trick when they clearly aren't. They simply don't know how to split push. No wards, constantly getting killed for being super-overextended giving the enemy team free gold and a number's advantage. It becomes really annoying.

Budupops1 votes

No wards, constantly getting killed for being super-overextended giving the enemy team free gold and a number's advantage.

Trick does that everygame

Leti the Yeti3 votes

Trick can... well rather Udyr can actually get away with this Even I get away with no vision really easy I can overextend because I can see their entire team sieging my team mid lane or bot lane and im not brain dead enough to not notice when one of them disappears I know a recall takes about 8 seconds and the average time to run out of base is another 12 seconds or so running half way across the map takes about 25 seconds I can estimate how much time I have easily These are things I know.. and trick probably knows too

that and udyr runs stupid fast and you wont catch him anyway

most people who want to be like trick dont know a whole lot...

Troy2426215 votes

Pls don't encourage the use of Udyr >_>. Now I'm not saying he's Hitler (Nunu), but he's definitely at least a Himmler.

M Schumacher4 votes

Scrubs hate split pushing because they don't know how to react to it and get butthurt when they lose a game while being ahead 20 kills.

Only Play Darius2 votes

^

I once won a game against a team who started forcing teamfights at 10 minutes in. They rarely broke apart to respond to my splitpushing.

They were ahead by about 20 kills, but couldnt overpower the inhibitor turret because they were underfarmed since they were constantly teamfighting. I ended up taking both of their inhibitors and backdooring their nexus, and they still hadn't taken a single inhibitor turret.

They were crying in post-game, and I got reported for saying "this isn't team deathmatch, this is objective control".

Some players will never learn.

Ship 0F Ducks4 votes

if you're winning .....you're more likely to win 5v5

the moment you show your self to them in another lane on the map..... ur enemy will play aggressively and force engage.

if you're going to play a tank.....you should go with the team and tank for them, it maybe they all bought glass thinking ur going tank.

they wouldn't always send a person after you....they'd just force engage first. then or go for drag/baron.....

lets say you're winning you might split and get one tower by inhib , while you're team 4v5 lets say couldn't defend and lose 2 outter towers, you can say "worth, got inhib tower" ..but its not all about getting gold, but also about denying them gold.

if you're super duper behind. you need to turtle in. ward AROUND your base. not deep. let them baron and drag. then you'll see things like their adc at red while midlane at blue... basically their team is split up.....and they made a mistake, you can catch them 1 by 1

wait for them to dive you....u fight under tower you have an advantage. if you're really really behind. ditch your inhib, fight by nexus. you wanna prolong to late game no matter how behind, if you can ace them late game, its gg on the spot

split pushing can work if you have good map control and know you can kill anyone who comes to stop you.....including under their tower. you also need realllly fast clear. IM not saying start split pushing as veigar if u can blow ppl up. somone like Master yi or tryn are good spliters.

bottomline: grouping is important man you should do it especially if they are doing it. You can split if you manage to catch one of them even if its a support (support contribute alot to a fight then it seems) and basically make it 4v4

LivingShdw1 votes

{quoted}

if you're winning .....you're more likely to win 5v5

the moment you show your self to them in another lane on the map..... ur enemy will play aggressively and force engage.

if you're going to play a tank.....you should go with the team and tank for them, it maybe they all bought glass thinking ur going tank.

they wouldn't always send a person after you....they'd just force engage first. then or go for drag/baron.....

lets say you're winning you might split and get one tower by inhib , while you're team 4v5 lets say couldn't defend and lose 2 outter towers, you can say "worth, got inhib tower" ..but its not all about getting gold, but also about denying them gold.

if you're super duper behind. you need to turtle in. ward AROUND your base. not deep. let them baron and drag. then you'll see things like their adc at red while midlane at blue... basically their team is split up.....and they made a mistake, you can catch them 1 by 1

wait for them to dive you....u fight under tower you have an advantage. if you're really really behind. ditch your inhib, fight by nexus. you wanna prolong to late game no matter how behind, if you can ace them late game, its gg on the spot

split pushing can work if you have good map control and know you can kill anyone who comes to stop you.....including under their tower. you also need realllly fast clear. IM not saying start split pushing as veigar if u can blow ppl up. somone like Master yi or tryn are good spliters.

bottomline: grouping is important man you should do it especially if they are doing it. You can split if you manage to catch one of them even if its a support (support contribute alot to a fight then it seems) and basically make it 4v4

The idea behind split pushing is that the team can go even on a 4v5 at that point. If you don't think your team can handle it the split push is not necessarily a good idea.

The split push can be considered in several ways:

1: A top laner with teleport can easily rejoin a fight which starts at the opposite side of the map. This is a big reason why we see teleport so often.

2: A player with a lot of dueling potential requires at least two players to take down. If they send two players then the other lane is a 4v3, but if they don't send anyone the split pusher takes objectives.

Whether split pushing is a good idea or not mostly depends on team comp and player skill.

PatMcGroyn4 votes

People hate having split pushers on their team because it's boring for them to play correctly. People want to be pressing the action, not just sitting under tower and clearing waves while 1 - 2 of their teammates are the ones being aggressive. Which is why, so often, they will push too far forward, get engaged on and die.

People HATE playing passive, which is why people feed in lane even when they're clearly outmatched by the enemy laner. It's also why it's hard to successfully split push; all a team needs to do during a split push is stay safe behind tower, but they get greedy and bored, push forward and get engaged on.

Leti the Yeti4 votes

http://i.imgur.com/sFx1r2G.jpg

MrPerson103 votes

Personally, I think people hate it because they don't understand its purpose or when the best time to do so is - kind of like the vast majority don't understand the purpose of a roaming midlane and how to go about properly taking and defending objectives

for example, I played a game recently on my main with an obviously boosted person who decided that his role as Fiora was to splitpush all game long and was consistently overwhelmed 3v1 and taken down. What they didn't realize is that to be an effective splitpush, you have to let your team get into position and pressure something far away from where you are before you show up out of the FoW and that your splitpush must be worth more than grouping, your group has to be able to handle a 4v5, and you should know when to stop shoving the waves and start softpushing. Keep in mind this was a game in mid platinum. Most don't know any of those concepts, so they eternally splitpush and don't understand how or why it's done.

BroadSlabber3 votes

I main Xin in jungle and will split push alot and am very affective at it because of the wave clear and tower destruction abilities of Xin and the bigest problem I have is with my team.When I split push and get to inhib turret and they send 2,3,4 or sometimes the whole team to deal with me,the rest of my team will take that opportunity to recall and get items instead of really pushing the lane their in and getting and inhib tower or the inhib itself.

junglerboy163 votes

Split pushing is the most reliable way for a single player to win a game. If I am using a weak team fighter/exceptional duelist, I WILL split push, especially if my team doesn't listen,. because there is no point trying to get 4 people who ignore me anyway to come and fight alongside me. I'd much rather take a tower, get a ton of team gold, and move on than try and force a fight again and again. Even if I'm a tank now I can still split push because Zz'rot's and AOE abilities clear waves fast and push towers hard.

Additionally, if every team fight we go into we always seem to lose harder (as in coming out 2 for 4 or worse) then why should I waste my death on the inevitable? If we keep dying repeatedly, I have a chance of at least taking out towers, but no chance of winning 5v5, and the rest of my team being 4v5 makes no difference if they would have killed us all anyway (except I can spend that time they spent fighting to take objectives).

More and more players seem to think that only people who watch Trick2G split push, when almost EVERY LCS game has several split push situations throughout the match unless the team is specifically built for 5v5 crushing the enemy team or they are already steamrolling the match. I've know how to split push since before I even knew what the LCS or Trick2G were, so my team better not complain about it unless I'm just feeding kills for no reason (which doesn't happen more than 1 out of 30 split push games).

Undeadmerlin3 votes

This thread is so god dam beautiful, I really hate when my team turtles and asks me to group, idgaf if im the only ap on the team, if nobody is split pushing i will do it myself. It kills me everytime i get baited by my team to team fight and we lose more obkectives then if i had split push.

CooLTanG3 votes

I don't get it either, if the enemy wanted to play ALL MID game, they shoulda played ARAM. If you can't handle the split pushing, you should stop roaming as a 5 man gank squad all game.

Orangesilk3 votes

In a 10 person game, splitpushing is only fun for 1 person, the splitpusher. The enemy team is on a dilemma between sending someone after the splitpusher and achieving nothing, or pushing a 4-man team under turret and achieving nothing, it's quite annoying to be on the receiving side of that.

The ally team, regardless of how they did, become glorified turrets as they try to defend a 4v5 while you do all the important stuff. If THEY make it and you pop down their objectives, you carried them. If they DON'T make it, and lose that 4v5, they're a bunch of scrubs as far as the splitpusher is concerned, much like it's a lose-lose for the enemy team, it's a lose-lose for the allied team, it's one of the worst feelings ever.

PrinceArchie2 votes

People wont get mad at you split pushing it you dont make it out to be that it's your one and only job. If you are splitpushing and your behavior all game is to..

A. Stay in your own lane B.Not help with Team objectives or Teamfights C. Not communicate with your team when you think it's best to split push

Then yea they will look at you funny and label you negative things because that's negative behavior on your part. I split push under many circumstances

A.Stalemate on an tower we cannot properly siege B.Get a lane pushing for wave advantage C.Trade objective D.Get free objectives

I always tell my team when I will be split pushing and I almost never split push if I dont have TP or cannot rotate quickly to my team. Split pushing has it's benefits yes, however it can make or break your team if you do not split push with wise consideration.. You don't have to ask permission to split push, but you should communicate when you like to split push. IF that's all the time then I suggest you change your habits.

Big Bang Bob2 votes

Because you can't teleport in a teamfight while simultaneously saving their adc and locking down 3 people at once. Shen

PokladnicaZla2 votes

Nooby question,Does AR-pen apply on turrets?

Leti the Yeti2 votes

it does not

MidEvilKnight3k2 votes

There are multiple problems when trying to split push in low elo games. The idea of split pushing (as many have said) is to have one player (like Udyr) who can 1v1 anyone on the other team split from the team and push some objectives while the rest of the team tries to not have a team fight. For this to work the rest of the team has to give enough pressure that the opposing team can't just use the whole team to collapse on the split pusher and kill him. But they also need to be able to disengage fights.

  1. Most low elo teams don't know how occupy the other team with the remaining 4 players while also avoiding a fight. The result is either the opposing team collapses on the split pusher and kills him or there is a teamfight without the split pusher.

  2. Many low elo split pushers will try to split push when it is impossible for the 4 remaining players to occupy the other team and avoid a teamfight (they have poor disengage and/or the opponents have really good engage). The result is the same as the previous reason.

MrSlowDie1 votes

{quoted} lets say you DO win the fight, what then? what can you do? kills dont win games.. objectives do

do you know why Amumu has such good WR?? if you win lategame teamfight it's pretty much done for the objective or even game.

splitpush is risky, especially if the enemy can force 5v4 engage, and if they win it, it will be a base race 5v1. Yeah there are many games I played and enemy lost because they group 5 and gank one person, then go to top to gank another. They had no objective control.

and there were many comebacks in competitive games because the enemy decided to splitpush.

I don't hate splitpush though, I did it few times, especially when Iwe were behind or playing shaco.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

let me break down the math for you summoner's rift is 19000 units are so average move speed is like 380 to 400 move seed takes about 20 seconds to get from where you're standing to about half way through the map expect another 20~25 seconds to reach their base pushing minions will further delay you some precious seconds taking the tower will take like 3 seconds guess what? respawn timers late game are only like a little over a minute, frankly its not enough time, read what comes after that sentence of mine... your base is under heavy pressure cuz the odds are.. ALL 3 of your lanes are pushed, before you leave you have to clear out ALL those super minions that have overrun your base

SeriouslyUnnamed1 votes

I though i would add my two cents.

Can your team hold its own 4v5? Or while you're away solo are they not going to be able to do anything?

Are you the teams primary source of CC?

do you have enough damage?

are you going to be able to escape when they come for you?

Im not going to call it the cheap way to win because sometimes, its just necessary. But 90% of the time, its not the way too win.

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