Can we please make Mid lane fun again for mages?

BeatzBoyFTW·Aug 16, 2018·20 votes·4,464 views

Instead of having to deal with this abomination who deals a chunk of damage pre-6 simply by pressing 3 buttons with absolutely 0 risks. Better, do something about 's absurd damage that it brings. Even I missed the actual Zed that used to rush many seasons before the Lethality crap came in. At that time, he wasn't such an annoying issue.

Hell, I missed playing full Tank/damaging bruiser like I wanted to if it weren't for that damn LCS who just keeps nerfing him off. For once, I wished Riot would make a separate balance between public & LCS.

25 Comments

Lord HelsingAug 16, 20189 votes

Mages are dead lol

worse than ADCs after 8.11

AirKingNeoAug 16, 20186 votes

why does competitive play and high elo see so many mages then?

RanmaruAug 17, 20185 votes

{quoted}

why does competitive play and high elo see so many mages then?

Because there safe, and have A+ cordination

AirKingNeoAug 17, 20181 votes

then they aren't dead

Lord HelsingAug 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

why does competitive play and high elo see so many mages then?

theyre good, just way too hard to play for anyone under pro level, and also better in premade 5 mans

DW DianaAug 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

why does competitive play and high elo see so many mages then?

It's funny, I saw two responses to this and neither of them really explained it, so please allow me:

First off, depends on the region you're talking about: in the EU LCS we're still seeing a lot of things like Yasuo, Akali, Irelia and wukong mid. Second, it's down to "what the team is trying to accomplish". Mages naturally bring more utility to a team, which can easily be combined with the dps output from the adc and a tanky front line to great effect during team fights. Wombo Combo's are also very strong, and mages tend to work much better with these (though the EU LCS like the knockup into Yasuo ult while the adc goes ham, or the flanking assassin 1 shotting the adc before he can shred the team. Lastly Mages tend to be safer during laning phase. This doesn't mean they are STRONGER in laning phase, and are often punished even in pro play by hypermobile hypercarries in laning phase just like in casual play. The difference is that in Pro play they are playing around each other instead of the "all for me" style of solo Q.

AirKingNeoAug 17, 20181 votes

I was just disproving the idea that mages are "dead"

r43b1llAug 17, 20181 votes

They're good in teams and provide utitility, which is much more useful in games where its very hard to solo carry.

Warlord RhinarkAug 16, 20188 votes

Half the time something's OP it isn't even the champion itself, it's the items.

Wukong was nerfed for no reason when it's shit like Trinity Force, Duskblade and Stormrazor that allows him to one shot people, but Riot isn't going to change any of those.

Assassins themselves don't need nerfs, their itemization, however, needs some drastic changes.

DW DianaAug 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dLA0QIHI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-16T12:13:04.464+0000)

Half the time something's OP it isn't even the champion itself, it's the items.

Wukong was nerfed for no reason when it's shit like Trinity Force, Duskblade and Stormrazor that allows him to one shot people, but Riot isn't going to change any of those.

Assassins themselves don't need nerfs, their itemization, however, needs some drastic changes.

It's items and runes. The options for burst are so high that anyone that can effectively make use of them is automatically the strongest. The best CC is death, and there's no QSS for THAT xD

Linna ExcelAug 17, 20181 votes

I'm saying it's half items and in the case of assassins Electrocute as well. Electrocute scales better with stats and levels so once the assassin backs, he starts getting an advantage in damage. If he managed to get a kill on you before getting items, that's lane.

Warlord RhinarkAug 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dLA0QIHI,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-08-17T04:31:22.445+0000)

I'm saying it's half items and in the case of assassins Electrocute as well. Electrocute scales better with stats and levels so once the assassin backs, he starts getting an advantage in damage. If he managed to get a kill on you before getting items, that's lane.

Well Electrocute is getting a damage nerf so that's why I didn't include it in my post.

I still just want a revert back to Thunderlord's Decree. It was so much more healthy.

TekkenPlayerAug 16, 20182 votes

The issue is that in mid lane, short trading is king. This is why when waveclear and mana regen items WERE NERFED, champions that could not outtrade their opponent basically lost lane control and thus are reliant on cooperating with their team, especially the jungler to scale well later.

Gameplay wise, both assassins and mages are horribly designed for laning phase. Similar to both classes, the laning phase consists of loading your full rotation and forcing them out of lane with most of their health gone. Assassins were able to do this better, and mages were still archaic in design only because their strength was "safety", causing their kits to never be touched even though they desperately need a rework. Instead the gameplay balance team decided that the only way to buff mages is to give them mana and cooldown reduction instead of unique ways to interact with their team/lane opponent. Assassins in lane were basically a perversion of riot being an advocate for "lane interaction" where someone is forced out of lane with little to no effort.

Stevev45Aug 16, 20183 votes

The mage rework removed mage's assassin level damage since the new design guys decided they shouldn't be assassins anymore. Then mage vs. "assassin" stopped being a skill match up.

ShablagooAug 17, 20181 votes

Lol you dont read man. He is trying to say both modes of laning are problematic. Thats why what is fun for mages is cancer for assassins and what is fun for assassins is cancer for mages. I've noticed by playing anivia against akali, one if mages still had their old mana like before they would be cancer to play against mages have superior wave clear and harass as well, the safety is huge, coupled with there great ganking set up leads to them being dominate. But for assassins its no better, with assassins its basically the same, with mages now not having the mana to actually farm and harass at the same time assassins are free to completely dominate them, I play talon I've noticed that I get to wave clear better then most mages unless they are tear users and harass and roam at low mana cost. What i've noticed is that assassins dont have the set backs of having to have to stay in lane anymore, instead they can push and roam, similar to what tf does. Along with have better harass at lower mana cost.

The question is how can they balance it so that both mages and assassins can have a level playing field. Dmg was never really nerfed for any mages, proof of that is ahri, zoe and anivia. They all do great dmg, the problem is the interactions both classes have with each other in lane it is toxic on both sides.

Stevev45Aug 17, 20181 votes

Mages have had a lot of burst damage removed since S4 through; reworks, mp5 nerfs, "mana banding", reduced AP on items.

Maybe you just haven't been playing long enough to know what I'm talking about. back when Zed and talon were called AD casters and pool of champions who could build "assassin" level damage was huge, but considered a troll build on most champs.

ShablagooAug 18, 20181 votes

I am not talking about burst I'm talking about the unfairness both seem to present when either of them are strong. It isnt even to topic of this thread really, its about being fun for certain classes. I am saying that both modes mage and assasins prove to be unfun when either is dominate.

mack9112Aug 16, 20182 votes

I find success with velkoz mid

AirKingNeoAug 16, 20182 votes

You push the wave and outscale like everyone else does?

WovyAug 17, 20181 votes

I just took a big cr*p on a Zed as Cassiopeia, I dont think mages are dead, assasins are gonna struggle a little bit in this meta cuz of tanks buffs anyways.

Linna ExcelAug 17, 20181 votes

If you think Zed mid is bad, just wait until you see a Chogath mid and there's nothing you can do about him.