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The old Rune System wasn't perfect, but it was better than this.

Bârd··63 votes·14,415 views

It had issues, sure.

  1. You should have been able to edit rune pages in champion select.
  2. The IP sink that was "unlocking every rune" was absurd.
  3. Tier 1 and 2 runes were just a trap, flat out.
  4. The differences in power between runes were astonishing.

...but none of those made the system irreparable.

Issue 1 was a simple fix. Issues 2 and 3 were fixed, but you waited to do it until Runes were set to be phased out. Issue 4 is a simple matter of balancing out runes, something I don't recall happening since the removal of Dodge Chance.

Sure it wasn't super interesting, but it didn't have to be. Hell, I'd rather this kind of thing wasn't super interesting. Power along the lines of Electrocute, Conqueror, Lethal Tempo, Predator... none of this shit should be a part of the runes, it should be in the form of new items, summoner spells, and champions.

It's not like it was devoid of strategy, it just looked that way because you didn't let us strategize by editing runes.

Stacking armor as Amumu top to become immune to minion damage? Sure. Hybrid Pen Thresh for all in damage? Seems legit. XP runes on Talon for first blood? Sounds good to me.

Masteries are the only one that needed a rework. For those, I think something along the lines of the Odyssey customization (at a lower power level) would have been the way to go.

54 Comments

Rαy19 votes

I really miss them, man.

Fights were so fun when you actually had to do more than just throw out one spell rotation.

Beacon Academy14 votes

I remember filling out most of the runes with magic pen + cdr for Malzahar or doing full armor for malphite among other things

fun times

hhaavviikk13 votes

I'd say only tier 2 runes were a trap, tier 1 runes were so cheap that it barely hurt you to get a full tier 1 runepage

Chembaron Yamada12 votes

Honestly, I prefer the new rune system. I think it is more beginner friendly than the old version.

Pierce The Veal13 votes

Which had a lot to do with the old system costing an incredible amount to just try things out?

DuskDaUmbreon7 votes

It was also a lot of the old system being a lot of shit and 90% of it being garbage.

The problem with things that are just stats is that there's only one perfect build with them, and everything else is subpar.

Bring me my belt24 votes

The old runes and mastery system, had little effects to gamplay but still help define how you wanted to play. now the rune pages determine who wins lanes over skill gap

GigglesO5 votes

I would have to agree on you with this one. I had 3 rune pages that used to really throw people off that I absolutely loved because it let me do odd things with certain champs.

46armor 43 MR level 18 Full mana regen. 13/5 Full Hp regen page (used till season 6)

WoonStruck3 votes

I loved starting cloth armor on nasus vs riven and starting the game with 92 armor with the old system.

It completely flipped the outcome of the match-up.

Verxint1 votes

That's a valid point, you can't have it be too dry or else it's just "this is the best choice". But at the same time, I'm getting tired of laning against Press the Attack or Time Warp Tonic, I prefer laning against champions not their keystones.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

That's fair, and could be handled by a nerf to runes overall. Doesn't justify going back to the old shitty system, but that's a fair stance.

Verxint1 votes

I don't think I'd want the old system back - I can't honestly say I have a good solution, besides not having runes altogether which is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Chembaron Yamada5 votes

Not just that.

For me personally, the rune page felt extremely redundant. Most of the time, you filled the page with the same type of rune/sigil/whatever.

Selecting 1 offensive rune (AD, AS, CDR), 1 defensive rune (AR, MR, HP), and 1 mixed (AD, AR, MR) is easy to costumize on the fly and just way more intuitive than having to fill this whole page with the same thing repeatedly.

PRoxy oQ9 votes

I used to run full AS runes on some champion and full hp or armor on others.

Ppl usually ran runes that were general bcs we did not have option to change them before game in champ select.

Guy is right runes did not define the game champions did and to addition of easier balance for old rune system so was balance of champions around those runes impossible with new runes system. This game is 10 years old (which is a lot in cyber world) and instead of reaching wisdom they are still acting like sub optimally developed 10 yo kid trying to balance it. They know how they just won't do it. Skill expression was removed via runes and bad matchmaking .

Pierce The Veal1 votes

I had an energy regen rune page, a CDR runepage (20% cdr from runes is sweet), an armor runepage, an armor pen runepage, an attack speed runepage, magic pen AND hybrid pen runepages.

Like my go to runes were: movespeed 4.5% 10% CDR 1.5% movespeed 20% cdr = 3 Quints + 3 glyphs (remaining were whatever).

For most people it was redundant because all you needed was an AD or an AP runepage. A large part of which was caused by a lack of runepages and the sheer cost to get more.

So your plight is understandable, just do understand that for the people who wanted to it was possible to customize a LOT.

Demented Lemur2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d8FbXEja,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-30T09:42:14.622+0000)

Honestly, I prefer the new rune system. I think it is more beginner friendly than the old version.

Dam this forum page is clearly unwilling to listen to a contrary opinion by the way they down voted you past the threshhold

Acemaster811 votes

Why I hate the boards and the people here, Yamanda could have explained why they like the new runes in greater detail, but because they like the new runes they get lots of downvotes.

Nexter31 votes

I agree

Tusutaki7 votes

Friendly reminder that they took out the Rune Pages because "it didnt offer enough diversity" even though they designed the new rune pages to "streamline choices" even though the intent directly contradicts the reason. T

Was there issues with the Old Runes? Of course however as OP already mentioned, it was practically fixed. With the removal of the old Rune Pages, Riot has been more and more hands on in manufacturing metas rather than the players defining it themselves. If something doesnt align with their intentions then they will double down and force the change. In worst case scenarios they would randomly do this on a whim with complete disregard to the playerbase.

The age of discovery and experimentation has been long gone. Over the past few years its becoming more apparent that we're in the age of manufactured. Reliance and investment into team composition and strategy has been tarnished in favor for quick flashy plays.

SheikhEleazar4 votes

I like both

Old meant you could play the champion your way, filling in gaps like giving xerath mana regen runes, even if the pros didnt do this, it was viable

New has too many offensive and too few defensive options

Power Cosmic4 votes

Runes Reforged took away a real early game.

Darkstar Annie4 votes

I miss being able to really customize what I wanted into each stat. I miss it so much.

Pàyback3 votes

good old times, 105+- ad with longsword as katarina with thunderlords lvl 1

Brayke3 votes

I have to agree. I hope Riot have the tenacity to admit they ruined the rune system. I feel like it took away player uniqueness. Now everybody is using the same set of runes. In my opinion it really limited the customisability of your gameplay. item 3151 Amumu [sg-soraka]

xelaker3 votes

They should drop all the super damage bs and just have the + adaptive damage, + armor, +magic resist, and low % utilities options.

Navarune2 votes

Aftershock's damage is negligible now, and I think that's fitting. Electrocute, Scorch, Comet, and Conqueror all provide insane damage over the course of the game. They all each have abuse cases on certain champs, too, and that makes them toxic. Damage overall really has gotten out of hand.

MarcReady3 votes

Old runes were much funnier and diverse. You could have different ways to play a champion by switching the main stats.

I want my full armor rune page back to use it as a melee tank top laner

Verxint3 votes

I miss my full armor and HP regen "I'm just going to sit in lane and ignore you" Sion.

Makarakarn2 votes

"For those, I think something along the lines of the Odyssey customization (at a lower power level) would have been the way to go." This, a million times this. I actually made a thread suggesting something like this a while ago and was downvoted to hell because some people can't comprehend "at a lower power level". It's basically what Battlerite does and it feels really nice to experiment with character customization.

Baron Von Bangin2 votes

The current designers will never admit the original crew at Riot crafted a much better game. Look no further than Ryze, Gallo, and Akali. They were going to be soooooo much better and healthy than those old shitty designs. What a joke.

Lux Is Mai Waifu2 votes

old runes were even more p2w than the current system

Bârd7 votes

Runes could only be purchased with IP, and rune pages could be purchased with IP or RP.

Neither system is pay to win, but the new system is just flat out worse.

ExplodingFist664 votes

Pay to win meaning having to grind games everyday to gather enough IP to even purchase decent runes. The system was completely flawed. Not even people who were willing to pay for runes could have a chance. Runes Reforged is a bad concept in replacing it, they easily could have made everything free.

Sukishoo2 votes

It took years to grind out the old runes, I owned all of them... And it was a more p2w set up. The more you had the better off you were.

New system is far better and gives real options in it. Some of the original ones were pointless and never used.

Bârd1 votes

The new unlock system is better, since there basically isn't one and you just get to have runes.

The rune system itself is just a powercrept version of Masteries.

Lux Is Mai Waifu1 votes

Spending money on a champ frees up IP to spend on raw stats. How does your smooth brain get tricked so easily by only one level of obfuscation.

GucciLordFeet2 votes

Totally agree, the community just needs to be vocal, let riot know that they're sh*t at balancing a game. The dev team doesn't play the game they balance and they just give us shit like new diana and go back to j-ing off. Kaisa is still a viable adc for the 9999 month running

Revive2 votes

The new rune system seems healthier, the old one had one major problem it was somewhat Pay to win. If u had a lot of resources for runes and pages u could set up rune pages for every matchup separately which gave u kind of a big advantage in lane.

Big Tiddy Fox GF2 votes

The new rune system seems healthier, the old one had one major problem it was somewhat Pay to win.

I mean, you just had to play to get them without using any real money in game.

The only thing that could be purchased with real money was rune pages (which you can still buy with real money today)

Tin Obliterates1 votes

Tier 1 runes were good for when you were starting out though, super cheap and at least it was something until you could get all the tier 3 runes you need.

Shahamut4 votes

I just think there should not have been any "tiers" of runes, and they needed to be free from the get go. Some of the runes that are more niche or less commonly used could have been locked behind levels so there wasnt so much at once.

I think the idea of masteries being champion specific, and ways to alter the way you play THAT specific champion (like odyssey) would be much more manageable and interesting.

Zullar1 votes

The new rune system isn't fun. If Leona then pick Aftershock. There's no choice anymore.

Navarune2 votes

Leona has other options. Aftershock is the safest, but she procs Press the Attack and Electrocute reliably well.

kocikreka1 votes

I agree, and im pretty sure the game will be 5 times better.

LordVRAI1 votes

Honestly I wanted them to remove the issues you mentioned from the old system and just keep it. I mean imagine the old system, but with only tier 3 runes (or just regular runes in that case) and the ability to edit it in champ select like masteries (which was again, a way to drain IP since you needed more rune pages). The old runes allowed for WAY more customization without being absurdly over centralizing. The new runes require your game-play to revolve around them, while the old runes revolved around your game-play. I think that's based on the power level, where old runes gave you raw stats and very rarely any game breaking abilities (which were usually so under-powered no one used them like bonus energy/energy regen or bonus xp) while the new runes have almost no raw stats and adaptive force is honestly bullshit that doesn't allow you to customize it at all, I mean really? I have to build an ap item for adaptive to work for ap on taric? what if my full build has no ap items? I just have to use ad? The old rune system allowed me to run flat AP which fixed this super easy to fix issue that riot is too stubborn to fix since everything needs to be ADAPTIVE FORCE and not the type of damage I WANT. Also I miss 1% crit runes. They were complete RNG awfulness, but my god were they FUN. Something riot seems to hate these days.

Metal Janna1 votes

There are a LOT of downsides to new Runes but... Before Runes Reforged if you picked an enchanter and they picked a hook support, you might as well dodge. There was no chance you were going to win. Now the matchup is difficult as all hell but winnable.

Bârd2 votes

Well that's wrong on multiple levels. First off, Hook supports don't counter enchanters. Just, no. The selection of hook supports back then was Blitzcrank Thresh Nautilus Now, surely there are no enchanters from back then who had good matchups against these guys... oh wait... Lulu converts a successful hook on the ADC into a multi-target knockup. Morgana Press E, problem solved. Zilean Ha And that's not to mention all the others who can crush Blitz and Thresh (if not Nautilus) by simply avoiding the hooks and wearing them down.

Second, new Runes didn't solve this. If anything, it made these matchups worse. Do you think Pyke would have been nearly as OP if he didn't have keystones to abuse, or if the enemy support was running around with 25 bonus armor at level 1?

Metal Janna1 votes

{quoted}

Well that's wrong on multiple levels. First off, Hook supports don't counter enchanters. Just, no.

Yeah okay buddy, sure they don't. Hard engage in general counters enchanters and you've been playing long enough to know it.

The selection of hook supports back then was Blitzcrank Thresh Nautilus

Your forgot Leona.

Now, surely there are no enchanters from back then who had good matchups against these guys... oh wait... Lulu converts a successful hook on the ADC into a multi-target knockup.

https://i.ibb.co/fG5G1vC/image.png Sona and Nami have similar numbers. Janna wins those matchups currently but then she's sitting at a 53% WR overall... clearly not representative of the normal state of enchanters vs hook supports.

Morgana Zilean

Hardly what i'd call enchanters. Morg can counter anyone, but only if she's better than the other guy (Black Shield has a very long and punishable cooldown). Zilean counters anything... if you make it to 6. So basically only in ranks where ADCs actually know how to play safe when facing a hook support.

And that's not to mention all the others who can crush Blitz and Thresh (if not Nautilus) by simply avoiding the hooks and wearing them down.

All the others who are artillery mage supports? Because an enchanter can't wear down an enemy they can't afford to get close to who also gets regular heals from Relic Shield. Of course that may change now that Relic lost its heal, but for the last three seasons hook supports have been providing sustain on top of their eat-one-skillshot-and-die kill pressure.

Second, new Runes didn't solve this. If anything, it made these matchups worse.

Do you have any data to support this? All I can say for certain is Runes Reforged made the matchup much harder for me, specifically... until I gave up on "protect the carry" and learned to abuse the runes to get kill pressure myself. Which is not how playing an enchanter is supposed to work, but hey, Riot won't stop the damage creep so you gotta play the hand you're dealt.

Do you think Pyke would have been nearly as OP if he didn't have keystones to abuse, or if the enemy support was running around with 25 bonus armor at level 1?

Yes. Because he too would have bonus armor. He'd be even more unkillable than he is now.

Bârd1 votes
  1. Again, no. It's not that simple.
  2. Leona is not a hook support. She's a diver. If Leona is a hook champion, than so are Lee Sin, Sylas, and Akali, who have essentially the same "hook" mechanic as she does.
  3. Those stats are from now, with damage being so absurd that being stunned for a second means you just die. I'm talking the days of old runes when damage was much lower.
  4. You do not need to be a healer to be an enchanter. An enchanter is anybody who focuses on buffing their team. Morgana is an enchanter/control mage hybrid. Zilean was a pure enchanter, and was reworked into an enchanter/control mage hybrid.
  5. No, not "artillery mages". Nami, old Sona, old Taric, and old Soraka could beat these guys by simply playing well. Nami/Sona poked/traded until they were low on HP. Soraka just sat back there and made sure she wasn't the one who got hooked and then made it impossible to kill her buddy. Taric could out-fight any of the hook supports if they engaged on him and could heal up afterwards.
  6. It's self evident. Enchanters can beat hook supports as long as damage is low enough that they can beat them. The introduction of keystones amped up damage to 11, and then runes reforged did it again by filling the lesser runes with damage options.
  7. Nope. Pyke is awful at dealing with durable champions. Reverting to old runes leaves him with much less damage to work with as well as opponents who are too tanky for Pyke to burst down.

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