We could really use a new item that builds through Brutalizer

BeatzBoyFTW·Jun 15, 2015·87 votes·4,132 views

I've just played an ARAM game as Pantheon, and as we started the game, I was like:

"Okay, gonna take Brutalizer and then the BC.....wait fk, BC doesnt build through Brutalizer anymore".

I got so messed up with my starting builds that I have to split with . It's really inconvenient that now Brutalizer builds only stick to just the one non-jungling item . I hope Rito would consider making more items that paths through Brutalizer, instead of just Ghostblade.

46 Comments

Stars ShaperJun 15, 201517 votes

I had to sell Brutalizer on Gnar after getting it because it's still in the suggested items even if it doesn't build anymore into BC ._. at least Riot could do something about that.

DoctorSpaceDogJun 15, 20151 votes

I accidentally bought one on Darius cause he likes the new cleaver.

MarhsallLee67Jun 15, 20151 votes

I did the same thing on Twisted Treeline as Vi.

Rinky DinkyJun 15, 20152 votes

ghostblade isn't bad on gnar at least

ArkenStormJun 16, 20151 votes

same with darius. and if you ever build a youmuus on darius....you deserve to be shot

ProfDrDeathJun 15, 20156 votes

The issue for Brutalizer is essentially a conceptual one.

{quoted}

Brutalizer is in kind-of a bad spot atm, true.

However, it might have something to do with the item on a conceptual level: Brutalizer is an item that gives three self-synergistic stats for its primary users (AD based casters), effectively giving you a major powerspike, on a rather low cost.

At the moment, I can't picture another item that has that kind of tripling down on on the self-synergy in the same price category (1200 to 1500 gold, first back-items).

The closest thing to Brutalizer is Haunting Guise - it also gives Pen and primary damage stat (AP), but also HP - which is an unrelated stat to the other two. If it gave CdR instead...

ApplyForAGrantJun 15, 20151 votes

If it gave CdR instead...

Or mana regen. One can only dream :>

ElJanitorFrankJun 16, 20151 votes

Why would you want mana regen on it? Many people who use the Brutilizer don't have mana.

WimbledofyJun 17, 20151 votes

wrong item... he was talking about mana regen for haunting guise.

SpecterVonBarenJun 16, 20152 votes

I think the only one that fits with it is Sheen. It gives more mana for more spells, AP for stronger spells, and on hit damage for after you use your spells. God help us if those two items ever build into something together.

TerchioJun 15, 20154 votes

Why not a item 3134 + item 3136 item? Never made sense to me that runes were based on stats you couldn't achieve from one item, anyways... 2 birds, one stone.

ErockandrollJun 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why not a + item? Never made sense to me that runes were based on stats you couldn't achieve from one item, anyways... 2 birds, one stone.

This would most likely make Hybrid carries too OP. This would screw up Corki's balancing because he falls of late game because he does too much mixed damage. In kog'maws case where his mix damage is %HP that scales with AS, that could give him a Nightmarish late game.

I only say this because I'm pretty sure we would already have a mix penetration item if Riot though it was a good Idea.

TerchioJun 15, 20151 votes

Most "hybrids" aren't that hybrid anyway. They pick one build and stick with it, like AP Akali, AP Jax, AD Jax, AP Kayle... etc. The thing is that most hybrid builds aren't viable because the hybrid items aren't actually better than a build you stack one stat. Gunblade is niche at best, and they even tried to gear it toward Deathfire Grasp champions, and even that didn't work out. Guinsoo is... Guinsoo. If a champion has an overpowered hybrid kit, usually you'd get more power by sticking with one stat more than the other by a large amount.

Only exception I can think of is maybe mage MissFortune . Maybe she can be viable again with a mixed Pen item.

ArkenStormJun 16, 20151 votes

Attack speed on-hit kayle would like to disagree with you. item 3153 item 3085 item 3115 item 3006 item 3124 item 3146

OyddAWqJ5rJun 15, 20152 votes

Hybrid runes would make hybrids OP.... but they didn't so I don't see how this would.

aperson1Jun 15, 20153 votes

The Brutalizer itself is in kind of a bad position, design-wise. It gives 3 powerful stats for AD casters (AD, CDR, Flat Pen) on a ridiculously low cost. You can't really add much more to a tier-3 item that builds out of it without making it ridiculously powerful. Youmuu's can get away with it because it's super cheap and primarily bought for its active rather than the stat upgrade; even then, it can fall off quite heavily. Even then, a lot of champs build Brutalizer for the massive early spike and sit onto it until they sell it late game.

I think Brutalizer should really be split into 2 items: 1 that gives AD+CDR, and 1 that gives AD+Flat Pen. That would open up a lot of opportunities for items with interesting passives/actives IMO.

Chaotic ReksJun 15, 20152 votes

New Item: Phreak's Walking Stick Cost: 3000

Stats: +60 AD +40% Attack Speed +15% CDR +8% Movement Speed Passive: +UNIQUE: 25 Armor Pen Active: Slows an enemy champion by 30% and reduces their armor by 15%.

Build: item 3134 + item 3101 + 413 Combine Cost

AnidanJun 16, 20151 votes

You know who would love that so hard? Fiora . She would love that so hard.

Chaotic ReksJun 16, 20151 votes

welp

SpecterVonBarenJun 16, 20152 votes

Description.

Puns of DAMAGE!

DiminishedACJun 16, 20152 votes

Brutalizer is fine only building into 1 item. It's just like Haunting Guise, but for AD's. Not everyone needs to buy such a cost-efficient item, which is fine.

pE4CbxDPQOJun 15, 20151 votes

I wind up with Brutalizer being my 6th item on Zed. Different unique armor pen than Ghostblade... Kinda lame.

Father CthulhuJun 15, 20153 votes

Getting brutalizer on Zed earlier is way more beneficial. 10% cdr for your ult, plus a good amount of damage and armor pen early goes a long way.

SoriokuJun 15, 20151 votes

Sticking.

Power.

Father CthulhuJun 16, 20151 votes

With a shadow dash, an ult that brings you to them, and a strong slow? You don't need it early.

pE4CbxDPQOJun 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Galifrey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d73ujviQ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-06-15T16:32:01.503+0000)

Getting brutalizer on Zed earlier is way more beneficial. 10% cdr for your ult, plus a good amount of damage and armor pen early goes a long way.

I do, but then i make it into ghostblade. Then buy a "just brutalizer" for the sixth spot

DeepWithinJun 15, 20151 votes

I agree! I find that brutalizer is a very useful item. I like to buy brutalizer when I play Garen, Pantheon, Wukong. But the item it builds into I don't find that useful. Its only useful on a small number of champs. So maybe there should be a new item created or the build path on some items should be changed. It seems like it makes sence to build Black Cleaver with brutalizer.

aaronconlinJun 15, 20151 votes

They could always make Black Cleaver build out of Brutalizer and Phage

ArdondJun 15, 20151 votes

yeah they really need to change that. My friend thought that they could make an ad item that applied grievous wounds, like Executioner's Culling, just, yeah know, good.

XxxLumberJackxxXJun 15, 20151 votes

Has any rioter ever mentioned why BC doesn't build from phage+brut?

MooooseJun 15, 20151 votes

Because it makes more sense that BC builds from a hammer than Maokai 's left arm.

CoolKnightSTJun 15, 20151 votes

yes

BiffoloJun 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Has any rioter ever mentioned why BC doesn't build from phage+brut?

Yes, they said it wouldn't make sense for bc to lose the flat pen when it upgrades. Upgrades are supposed to be purely beneficial, not lose something.

SpecterVonBarenJun 16, 20153 votes

item 3093

CoolKnightSTJun 15, 20151 votes

Something like this has posted recently. I think the best solution like I mentioned before in the previous topic is: item 3134 + item 3024 . And even with that buildpatch is result into a pretty overloaded position.

MaikalJun 15, 20151 votes

Should make something that reduces healing maybe? Like executioner's calling but not complete garbage? AD caster itemization as a whole is complete garbage, especially for assassins who go full damage. Need infinity edge to stay relevant on ad assassins, but then you're relying on a 1/3 chance to crit with youmuus when you NEED that crit to do anything. Giving another item that's good on assassins might help that itemization issue so that they wouldn't need to build crit to stay relevant.

WasaboJun 15, 20151 votes

What about a new item that builds through spirit armguard

dragon master464Jun 15, 20151 votes

yes we can

HawkefireJun 16, 20151 votes

The problem is......we really don't want to include even more armor pen in the game because we already have a very large amount of it.

DracobaltJun 16, 20151 votes

We really DO need another item with Brutalizer...I used to like having the early armor pen due to it being cheaper than a whole item. You could build brutalizer....and leave it at that until later before having to finish building it into a black cleaver. Now if you build it...you can only head towards a Youmu's which I dont hate...but I dont like the item on all champs that go the black cleaver route. phage is nice....kindlegem is nice...both give hp...good! but where's my armor pen!? I gotta wait till late game to have armor pen and by then people already have enough armor to where it's useful but can't be used as much as before. In lane you could build a brutalizer and do enough damage against tanky champs who built armor. Now they build armor and start fighting back as though they had more AD than you O.O! makes it harder to fight back. The other day I was playing top lane...and started owning. Went around 4/0 just to suddenly notice that the enemy had built some armor. Thought to myself that I should still have no problem as I had more farm and more items. Turns out we were on "equal" ground now. He was 0/4 and less farm and was fighting back....neither of us got any ganks and as I said I had more farm/items lol when I had brutalizer before. Things would often be easier. Don't always need it but I say that having it there is a good counter against tanks. I didn't regain my lead that game until I finished my black cleaver. I was then FINALLY able to fight back like I had before he built armor. Please....Riot we need something as good as Black cleaver to build onto brutalizer or possibly give some armor pen to another item?

Champion SkinJun 16, 20151 votes

Actually the armor pen from BC is more effective later on in the game as it remove more armor the more armor the opponent has (and it has no early game flat armor pen)

DengedenJun 16, 20151 votes

LeeSin Riven Zed yes, please!

WeirWulfJun 16, 20151 votes

I think there was some kind of pbe/riot post or something that said riot are working on one, so we hopefully just have to wait a little bit.

Occams RaiserJun 16, 20151 votes

new items all around.

Lil BoolerJun 16, 20151 votes

why not take kindlegem out of Black cleaver build, and make it phage brutalizer... either keep cost the same or increase cost and increase final AD on black cleaver. Where does armor pen even come from when making cleaver with phage and kindlegem it doesnt even make sense.. The brutalizer still gives it CD and armor pen while phage gives the movement passive and HP.

Champion SkinJun 16, 20151 votes

We really do need a new item that builds through Haunting guise item 3136 as it only has one build path