ADCs, their Items and range crit are the biggest reason we are only seeing Enchanter Supports

Raoul··55 votes·2,021 views

ADCs being as overpowered as they are limit the choise for supports alot.

First, not buffing the ADC means you dont support the most broken champ in the game. You try to make weaker champions stronger, but even with your support, they wont be nearly as powerfull as the ADC. So Supports that make the ADC stronger by 50% are better for the team than a support that makes the Bruiser 100% stronger. Which means that even if the Support by himself is actually WEAKER than other Supports, as long as he can proc Ardents on the ADC, hes wortth more to the team.

Next thing is: Tank, Engage or Poke supports get killed by the ADC.

Supports dont get the gold other roles get. Trying to tank with a support means the ADC who can easy kill real tanks will just melt you. If you are a poke support, one Auto Crit from the ADC will deal more damage to you than your poke does to them, and they can just Lifesteal it up. Same problem with engagers. The second you go into the range of the enemy ADC, you are already at half HP because you are not really tanky and you just ate a 500+ dmg autohit on a champion that maybe has 2000 HP.

You want more diversion in Supports? NERF THE DAMN ADCs ALREADY! ESPECIALLY RANGED CRIT!

67 Comments

It Hertz When IP17 votes

item 3504

This is the problem. This right here. This item.

RainXBlade4 votes

I wonder why Riot hasn't fixed this item yet despite people complaining about it for about 2 months now.

Best princess EU2 votes

3*

Ryrynounet7 votes

4* Jhin

DefNotATroll3 votes

I declare a thumb war

Liveey1 votes

{quoted}

I wonder why Riot hasn't fixed this item yet despite people complaining about it for about 2 months now.

They did change it, it doesnt grant life steal now.

However its attack speed does technically rival a fully built attack speed item.

RainXBlade1 votes

You call that a change!?

I call it bullshit on Riot's part.

LordGeovanni1 votes

The problem isnt the item but the items interaction with safe champions who amplify their own damage based on how many auto attacks they can produce

Jet Sett7 votes

Maokai item 3109 item 3190 ? Top laners and jungler are literally building to support the ADC too.

Kaeblen1 votes

No.

This item, while a problem by itself, Reveals other problems, making them glaringly obvious.


######(as a side note, I hated ardents when it was first released. It was super under-powered back then, but the very thing it's made to do irks me. I never knew why it bothered me so much until it was buffed and became meta)

JackMcSnipeyz9 votes

Idk wtf you're talking about everytime i get support i pick leona/taric and engage balls deep into the enemy adc and i can almost duel him (early of course). Poke supports were always getting outscaled because they relied on snowballing not dueling on equal terms.

Dont scape goat the problem into adc, marksmen have their own problem no doubt, but im pretty sure it's not what makes enchanters strong.

You can dodge a blitz hook or leona ult but you cant dodge a polymoroph or janna BF shield or attack speed heals from soraka

Raoul6 votes

Would you claim a Janna Shield with Ardents to be any problem if put on a bruiser instead of an ADC?

Because I strangely only see her being called "OP" in combination with an ADC

JackMcSnipeyz7 votes

No because a bruiser has no benefit from AS. Put it on yasuo or master yi or kayle and yea, it's just as cancerous.

Let me ask you this, if we had a support that gave a shield that makes mages spell twice as fast and on 60% cd, would you nerf the mage for being OP, or the support for making him OP? Nerfing an entire class just because janna can press E on them and give them AS, AD and a shield sounds a bit like scape goating.

Raoul3 votes

Nah, i would take the support and play him with an ADC, because now my ADCs abilities are faster and have lower CD, making him even stronger.

Imagine Tristana with an empowered Q, or a Xayah with an Empowered QE combo... damn...

JackMcSnipeyz3 votes

Lol no you wont, all these carries you people complain about barely use any abilities, if you're so biased you make this comment then i can see why you think enchanters are perfectly fine with their stat stick shields

LordGeovanni1 votes

If you fighting with trist or xayah and not useing our abilities you gimping your self and your team. there is no adc in this game that doesnt use their skills while fighting

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

there's a different between using your abilities to relying on them. Twitch uses his rotation once and all he does is auto attack. same with tristana, she doesnt need to sling her skills between auto attacks. Xayah is another caster carry hybrid because of her passive so you're right on this one.

Even then, if i had a choice between using an ability empowring shield i would use it on the class that is all about abilities, that's like saying "oh im gonna use my auto attack shield on oriana because of her passive", it wont be as effective, so give it a break, you're just looking for small loop holes to try to fit into "adc are OP no matter what"

LordGeovanni1 votes

tristanna uses her e off cooldown during fights same with q you can say all they do is auto attack but they need their skills to do that same with xayah.

Raoul1 votes

Oh, and one more thing. You know what happens when i put a Janna shield on a Yasuo? It breaks in one hit from the ADCs crit dmg autohit!

JackMcSnipeyz3 votes

In that case, when you put a janna shield on an adc it gets taken out by 1 hit from yasuo. See? This can go all day with these imaginary scenerios, yasuo is more than capeable of dealing with ranged carries.

Also idk why you made w different comments

Raoul4 votes

Difference is, Yasuo has to dive through the whole team to get the ADC. The ADC just sits back and rightclicks him.

But hey, good luck dashing through a halfway not-braindead team to rush for the ADC, I bet they wont try to stop you...

JackMcSnipeyz3 votes

If they are capeable enough to stop a yasuo they are capeable enough to engage an adc. And i dont care how you twist and turn it, marksman arent drain tanks who 1 shot everyone at every stage of the game.

Raoul1 votes

You are right, early game they are just as strong as everyone else. Thats their weak state.

JackMcSnipeyz6 votes

Okay you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and either never played marksman or just hopping on the bandwagon

Raoul1 votes

Ok, just to make it clear. You say ADCs are totaly fine, ADC Items are totaly fine, ranged crit is totaly fine, the only problem is Supports?

JackMcSnipeyz3 votes

please read my original comment again, i never said adc dont have any problems, i said they have their own. their items are way too cheap and some offer too much survivability (Death dance after the unnecessery buff) but lets not act like marksman are 1 shotting from level 1 and penta kill while playing with 1 hand, that's not happening, only in your imaginary scnerios you make to farther your own agenda.

HOWEVER, that doesnt mean that enchanters are perfectly balanced and it's all the marksman's fault, enchanters encourage passive defensive playstyle that first, isnt fun (but fun is subjective so w/e) and 2nd, it requires very little skill and 3rd, when they are strong, they have no counterplay and they cover other champion's weaknesses.

If you nerf the entire marksman class all you'll do is make enchanters even more mandatory to cover for the marksmen's horrible state (that you all want them to be at)

Raoul1 votes

You know what? I would actually be willing to sacrifice Enchanter Supports. I would be ready to delete them all, just so ADCs lose one more excuse for being broken and we are one step closer to finaly nerfing them and their broken Items...

Janna, Soraka, Sona, Lulu... I am willing to sacrifice every last one of them!

Kaìju1 votes

Ashe.

Raoul1 votes

Back to this post, do you have any idea how awesome Varus and Ezreal would be with a support like that?

Fuck, why did you bring this up, now I want a support like this so Varus and Ezreal Botlane becomes Meta again...

JackMcSnipeyz2 votes

yea because they are both ad CASTERS who benefit from abilities, there's a reason they arent strong and that's cause enchanters cater to the attack speed carries. And yea, they would be awesome. borderline OP with 60% CD reduction and faster spells which is exactly my point. Would you nerf ez and varus because they are suddenly OP with that support synergy? or nerf the support who's making that synergy happen in the first place?

Raoul2 votes

And which Supporter exactly gives any ADC the equivalent of 60% CDR and 200% Spellspeed?

Janna with her +45 AD?

JackMcSnipeyz3 votes

that is exactly my point, idk what you're even talking about at this point. I was making an imaginary champion to show you how the problem isnt only adc like you say, it's also supports and their items. Please re read the entire conversation and maybe you'll get it

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Bruisers have no benefit from AS?

I mean, I'm pretty sure they're just some weird-ass combination of Skirmisher, Tank, and Assassin, from basically everything I've heard, read, and seen. Meaning that they do use autos quite a lot.

I mean, it's not like Diana's passive is entirely autos. Or XinZhao heals every third auto...

LordGeovanni1 votes

Bruisers were the original champions who benifited from attack speed while adcs were still trying to build 5 ad items and berserkers greaves back in season 2. Bruisers cant benefit from attack speed NOW because dps is no use when you are dead in 1.5 seconds or 3 seconds because either an adc crit you 4 times in in 1.5 seconds or a mage used q w and is kiting you for 2 seconds until q comes off cooldown to kill you. The same thing applies for life steal.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Leona and taric could reliably engage adcs and beat them by their selves after giving their own adc just 2 kills and making sure the enemy adc is behind. your almost duel some one who can out run your engage and has mobility or cc to self peel while having another champions dedicated to the same thing and poking you the tank support so you never at a health where you can engage the adc. you can keep dreaming about leona in this meta. Enchanters are strong because they are buffing a class that is designed to hard carry without any buffing. other wise they would be enableing more than just adcs how about morde to get that 3 hit combo off quicker and keep him safe in lane. how about azir who is a mage marksmen what his damage doesnt crit so its not the same. how about and bruiser many of which scale off of attack speed Aatrox Jax JarvanIV Irelia Udyr Warwick none of them even remotely effected by the enchanters and only one is a viable pick scratch that the one viable pick isnt even a bruiser build its full tank into i can attack at max speed because im supposed to fight at low health but you cant.

Raoul7 votes

Actually, now that I think about it, ADCs dictate everything.

Tanks need to be super tanks, therefore bruisers are pushed out of the meta, thereby top and jungle is very limited, and for mid, you either need a long range controle mage or... well, another ADC, because you no longer pick mages for burst, because ADCs got that covered too...

Thefrostyviking4 votes

Did you watch c9 smash one of their games using a early/midgame comp against a lategame one? Enemy teams kog+lulu were absolutely destroyed by impact on nautilus and jensen on ryze.

I am not sure the problems is quite as big as you make it seem.

Mizaya5 votes

So you say Janna/Ardent was strong because ADCs were OP?

But we're getting a shift in winrates already! Kog'Maw and Twitch down both 1.5-2% winrate this patch. Looks like those Janna/Ardent nerfs did a thing or two, eh?

And MF, an ADC that couldn't care less about Ardent, is up 1.5% winrate... now the highest. Data is from op.gg analytics btw, which I think is based off the KR server.

Marshbouy1 votes

Certain people on the boards like to act as though supports can't do wrong in a meta. ADCs become the bogeyman of the entire fucking game and everything bad in the world is blamed on them. It's kind of pitiful tbh.

Kaeblen2 votes

I play Bard TahmKench and I absolutely could "do wrong" if i wanted to.

And yes, adc are the bogeyman: http://40.media.tumblr.com/d37fd165528af9e41d98c39c80d4fec4/tumblr_mmoxm21sUh1s1moyno1_250.jpg They will Kill you.

Spank the Fox3 votes

Lol?

You mean the items ADCs have had since the S6 class rework and weren't too much of a problem?

Are you ignoring that Ardent got massively buffed, Redemption was introduced (and nerfed to give way to Ardent) that broke enchanters?

Nah mang, it's ADCs! It was just a season and a half slow cooker, durrrr

AirKingNeo4 votes

Nerf support items and then nerf lifesteal equal to the remaining support creep.

Evil Yasuo2 votes

When are we getting these anti shield items?

Raoul2 votes

why? Its not like Supporter Shields actually block even one whole Autoattack from a midgame ADC...

Evil Yasuo2 votes

{quoted}

why? Its not like Supporter Shields actually block even one whole Autoattack from a midgame ADC...

Because assassins have ZERO chance getting near an adc as it is, but if we do somehow manage to get to the backlines, we have to deal with a million shields which can negate an entire burst.

Raoul3 votes

Meh, get 1000% dmg against shields for all I care, it wont change anything. Why play an assassin when the ADC deals the same damage, but reliable, safe and with no Cooldowns...

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Because an assassin does it faster, and has the ability to escape if closed upon. The only ADC with the ability to actually escape is Tristana.

Kynami1 votes

Erm. She has better odds because of knock away on ult and the jump, but there are at least four ADCs with reasonable odds of forcing a disengage into a successful escape. Most of them aren't currently meta however.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Because an assassin needs 1 or two items to shutdown enemy carries when played well.

Marksmen have always needed 3 or more to be really outstanding, exception being now the fact that ardent censer gives nearly an entire items worth of attackspeed on demand.

AirKingNeo5 votes

Anti-shield item is a terrible design and anyone with a brain can realize why.

Just nerf shields and heal/shield power.

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