Karma hard nerfs???

RayhaNPrincE·Sep 13, 2019·24 votes·12,799 views

Dont you just love it. Karma just poked her head at mid lane and there you go...insta nerf.

Now u are thinking maybe it's her shield thats getting nerfed since she is picked for the shield. Karma is no dps mage.

But Rito managed to do it again. -20% ap ratio on Q. wow!! Yeah guys karma really does way too much damage. I'm never buying skins anymore for a champion unless its loved by riot like Riven.

52 Comments

5050BSSep 13, 201919 votes

Yes because her Q is stupid. Her kit is stupid too. Lets put ALL her damage in one spell. Its like Zoe.

Ahri BakaSep 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Yes because her Q is stupid. Her kit is stupid too. Lets put ALL her damage in one spell. Its like Zoe.

Her Q is stupid af , that's true Tho Zoe is much worse , She has damage on all of her spells except Ult ,but even when you use Ult you will do damage with passive anyway

IxtaliKingSep 13, 201911 votes

The only reason her Q/RQ is stupid is because it's her ONLY damage option. It was never an issue back when RW and RE were also damage options.

Riot destroyed her the moment they pushed through the 5.10 changes.

RebeccaUCuberSep 14, 20191 votes

comparing Karma and Zoe dmg...

IxtaliKingSep 13, 201914 votes

Riot always finds new ways to disappoint. I don't know whats more disgusting: their treatment of Karma, or the blatant cash-grab buffing of Riven because of her new skin.

Never been so disappointed in Riot. I'm disgusted.

preternaturalSep 13, 20199 votes

just rework karma again. the champion is just so bad to play against, probably the most unfun thing on the rift.

Nea104Sep 13, 20198 votes

Absurd buff to Riven, absurd nerf to Karma, and some people are happy :D

The kind of people who are still enjoying this game in its current state, and that will keep playing when everyone else will have quit. This is an actual snowball effect , about making the game less and less pleasant :D

preternaturalSep 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Absurd buff to Riven, absurd nerf to Karma, and some people are happy :D

The kind of people who are still enjoying this game in its current state, and that will keep playing when everyone else will have quit. This is an actual snowball effect , about making the game less and less pleasant :D

riven shouldn't be getting buffed, we already know this, that doesn't make karma a good design though.

IxtaliKingSep 13, 20195 votes

We know Karma is a bad design, but that shouldn't make it okay for Riot to gut her like this. They're gutting the ratios of a champ who already falls off late game, and essentially removing her from the solo-lanes she was intended to play in... that's just plain wrong.

DynikusSep 13, 20196 votes

Dont you just love it. Karma just poked her head at mid lane and there you go...insta nerf.

Tank karma top is what you can thank for these changes, not midlane karma. They're requiring you actually build ap to do damage now.

Hi im 12Sep 13, 201913 votes

ah yes, the ap ratio change will completely gut the iceborn rush into support items tank karma, she will do 200 damage less on every Q because she built so much ap!

ModWulf HelhammerSep 13, 20193 votes

yes...

The smaller ratio is going to be giving you less of the AP that you build as damage. Meaning she can't build a few AP items into tank and still have decent damage.

Hi im 12Sep 13, 201915 votes

karma top core build: https://i.gyazo.com/3eec509ffda11e6d1f070aab46f94344.png oh yes, she loses a whole 0 damage from these changes, maybe around 5 damage from runes? lmao

Dasdi96Sep 14, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi im 12,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d4xUAa51,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-13T21:30:40.951+0000)

karma top core build: https://i.gyazo.com/3eec509ffda11e6d1f070aab46f94344.png oh yes, she loses a whole 0 damage from these changes, maybe around 5 damage from runes? lmao

Meanwhile this unfairly hits full ap karma.

IllabetheSep 14, 20191 votes

88 matches. What a sample size. Couldn't be a stat grabbed from a site that just started getting results from a new patch at all.......

Hi im 12Sep 14, 20193 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/d2e101125edc465eb8b3729a502c43d9.png

? I mean it ain't gonna change mate

IllabetheSep 14, 20191 votes

It dropped 5% between your two screen shots. It averages 53% as TOP LANE only. Doesn't work anywhere else.

P.S. It's also purely because top is a Juggernaut meta right now. if more skirmishers go top, the win rate drops dramatically.

Hi im 12Sep 15, 20193 votes

my point was that this is what top lane karma builds, not the win rate, not the meta, nothing else.

PIGKOURINOKEROSSep 18, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi im 12,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d4xUAa51,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-13T21:30:40.951+0000)

karma top core build: https://i.gyazo.com/3eec509ffda11e6d1f070aab46f94344.png oh yes, she loses a whole 0 damage from these changes, maybe around 5 damage from runes? lmao

I just faced her like that and I was playing Aatrox I couldn’t even touch her cause of her q and shields..exactly this build and she was unkillable

jocomotionSep 14, 20191 votes

No... it’s be better to nerf her base damage then. Since the base damage maxes out at 260, which is pretty high. Beefing it down to say 220 would’ve been not only a smarter move for her, but a healthier one as well.

To prove my point let’s do some math Tank karma builds maybe 1 AP item top lane, that item usually being item 3027 if any item at all (Though she usually rushes iceborn, I’m just giving you the FULLEST benefit of the doubt). ROA gives up to 100 AP, which means currently it alone gives her 60 extra damage on her Q. With this nerf it gives her 40 instead, wow... 20 whole damage less. That sure does hurt tank karma a lot. And remember this is assuming She even builds ROA.

But wait, what about Soulflare? Her ulted Q? Surely THAT would have a lot less damage. Well let’s see, assuming you stand in both the initial explosion and the second explosion, the AP ratio totals out to be 150% meaning it deals 150 bonus damage and with the nerf it’s.... 130... wow 20 less damage......

yeah there’s no way to try to sugarcoat this. This nerf is a way to gut support and Mid Karma for worlds. If anything Tank Karma was nerfed the least of all her play styles.

RayhaNPrincESep 14, 20193 votes

You mean how Liss and Galio can face tank an entire team and still do burst of damage but karma shouldn't be let to do anything near that? 🤔 What is karma anyway?

Smurfing9000Oct 7, 20191 votes

Lissandra, tank and burst in the same sentence? You're on drugs

Anu3isIISep 14, 20191 votes

You do realise that they could easily lower its base damage and increase the AP Ratio to effectively nerf only her Tank build, right? Nerfing the AP Ratio affects Tank build way less than any base damage change and hurts her AP/Support builds way harder.

If anything, they push Karna more into her Tank build or Shield Bot Support.

BeatzBoyFTWSep 14, 20192 votes

I'm still pretty sure this changes nothing to Tank Karma top. Take note that the nerfs does not include lowering her BASE damage, and most of the time you don't build any AP at all til the mid-game.

Darkdemon653Sep 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Tank karma top is what you can thank for these changes, not midlane karma. They're requiring you actually build ap to do damage now.

Tank Karma didn't build AP.

7thHeavenSep 14, 20195 votes

https://cdn.staticneo.com/w/leagueoflegends/a/ae/KarmaIcon.png : "Karma, who??"

ShyImagoghnarSep 13, 20193 votes

good. the champion's AIDS. the only purpose of its existence is to tilt the enemy melee solo laner out of the game before they have a chance to outscale and shit on it

xelakerSep 14, 201910 votes

Someone's butthurt they lost lane to a karma

KanzlerSep 13, 20193 votes

Would rather see the base damage nerfed

BugogSep 14, 20193 votes

Honestly what I don't understand what this is suppose to target.

It doesn't change anything about the early game before you get AP items. It doesn't change anything having to do with tank Karma. It margionally hits support karma that goes athenes + ardent + frostfang.

It hits ap karma who goes ludens + deathcap, and I don't remember people playing that in my games. u.gg has top, mid, and support each being a nudge below 50%.

Karma is sometimes picked in pro, and if I'm being generous I would say the results are mixed, so this isn't pro focused.

I really don't understand what they're trying to accomplish with this change.

JRobin31Sep 14, 20193 votes

I looked and saw buff?!? what? is a Tier 2 champion getting buffed and Karma is a Tier 4 champion getting nerfed?!? To be clear in match-ups I have almost no counter-play. It's literally he will farm me with his ult. I made a thread to discuss options. I got many suggestions and I implemented all suggestions in actual ranked games against Mordekaiser and came back to the thread and gave feedback on my experiences - exhausted all options. It's not cool that he is getting a buff.

And Karma percent scaling nerf? What? Why? [zombie-brand-mindblown]

jocomotionSep 14, 20191 votes

To be fair, the Morde buff is pretty tiny. His shield went from building up at 30% of the damage he deals to 35% of the damage he deals. Nothing spectacular.

RayhaNPrincESep 14, 20192 votes

The fact that Zoe' Q is not dodgeable half the time and karma Q is easily dodgeable unless its a mantra empowered one says so much that her kit is already problematic. Where is the rework of her that riot teased earlier this season.

MangoSundaeOct 26, 20191 votes

I dont know why I am looking at this one month later. But to make it all clear to everyone, Riot NeuroCat abandoned the rework that was supposed to be done on Karma. She wanted to push her in the bot lane, only support. Sadly alot of people disagreed and the backlash was getting out of hands. So Riot scrapped her rework, and it is now officially cancelled :DDDD!!!!!

KeiagaSep 13, 20191 votes

Ill still give karma some attention because i love her warden skin. Shame about her q but at least it doesnt affect tank karma

BugogSep 14, 20192 votes

Sun goddess is better.

Just sayin'

KeiagaSep 14, 20192 votes

That's a great one but I have a fondness for magical spellknights and that skin scratches that particular itch

RagnaveilSep 13, 20191 votes

Pretty sure the nerf to her could have gone one of two ways: E gets nerfed for being toxic as shit to deal with Q gets nerfed to lower her early waveclear

Logicalily Sep 13, 20191 votes

They nerfed her shield for pro play and now Q ap ratio

Maybe she is being played as a top lanner because other support champions are better than her. Just nerf her ult CD, empowered W root duration, or Q slow (anyone one of them than ap ratio)

Midg3tSep 13, 20191 votes

Idk how much Karma will be affected by this but still wtf...

Tahminatrix Sep 14, 20191 votes

We should all start playing tahm kench mid and get his q ap ratio nerfed.

ElewdSep 14, 20191 votes

Look im gonna be honest, I play Karma a bit but not too much since i play mostly Arams nowadays, but in normal games, Karma's Q hits like a fucking mactruck in earlygame so saying she doesn't do damage is bullshit and if you play Karma you also know thats bullshit. I think the nerf is stupid yes, but dont go saying she doesnt' do damage and is only a shieldbot, otherwise she'd be played support.

BugogSep 14, 20194 votes

Karma's Q doesn't hit significantly harder than other shield type mages:

Karma Q: 80/125/170/215/260 with a 60% AP modifier Morgana Q: 80/135/190/245/300 with a 90% AP modifier Lux Q: 70/115/160/205/250 with a 70% AP modifier

She usually transitions into a shieldbot mid game because she's down a real ult, it becomes harder to use her passive, has shorter range, and doesn't have the kit combo synergy when there are multiple people that will prevent you from following up with W. These are issues that the other mages don't have.

And she is played support.

RebeccaUCuberSep 14, 20191 votes

Karma is supposed to be an early bully. Her damage becomes ridicoulus if she'not fed in late.

Anu3isIISep 14, 20194 votes

You talk purely about early game. Late Game, her Q is mediocre and her R-Q basically is her Ultimate (and isn't that amazing). The change barely affects her Early Game, while greatly weakening her already low Late Game Damage.

And even as a solo laner she builds support items that improve her Shields, transitioning into a Shield Bot with decent DPS. Going for Damage would be a total waste, since there are better picks for that.

Shieda KaynSep 14, 20191 votes

Topbabs in this thread and everywhere need to look outside of their lane for once

IllabetheSep 14, 20191 votes

I honestly do not know how to play Karma anymore. Do okay in farm lane, but omfg...... it's like W can't do enough to survive anymore, shield doesn't do enough to survive, and Q doesn't do enough until very late game.

I used to like to be able to skirmish with her to abuse W all the time because that was the strong way to play her. Now that'll just get you killed because of damage creep.

Now they're taking more of her Q damage?

She's barely a 50% champ as a Q poker. Let's take away her Lazy playstyle too, so that her active playstyles can really reflect on her win rate and drop it to 45%

*Sarcasm.

JudgmentalSep 14, 20191 votes

The only way I would appreciate this nerf is when it becomes an alarming call for Riot to finally and SERIOUSLY put her under the scope and fix her 6.6 years old issues.

BeatzBoyFTWSep 14, 20191 votes

Dont you just love it. Karma just poked her head at mid lane and there you go...insta nerf.

Morgana : I know how it feels... [cass-cry]

TochindenSep 30, 20191 votes

I it was a hard weekend 4 me when I saw the heavy karma ap down scale.... makes no sense! Some patch ago they hard buffed her! Then taking it back, then nerfing the standard base shield and now super nerf her Q? She is a MAGE after all, Morgana has 90% ap scale on her Q that roots for 3s and does 300 base damage at full lvl. Now she has a low sheild and low dmg AND a very risky root that u now longer can be protected with Q and E. Riot just forced Karma players to top lane where ur not as dependent on ap and scaling, My idea for a nerf is to let her Mantra to scale the amount of mana cost for the abilities that it boosts! Like lvl one mantra costs 3% more mana on her Q ult, like 60mana plus those 3% mana of that 60. Im just throwing numbers but u get the idea. That makes Karma players to not just spam her R+Q for heavy poke as all of her abilities are quite cheap not mention the free Mantra at all stages. This is far better in my opinion wiser nerf