Melee caster is a "marksman"

Yma S··132 votes·3,825 views

I sexually identify myself as an attack helicopter

I say it to myself therefore it's true

because it is

in my head

37 Comments

Raka Flaka MD45 votes

Shhh we don't like your logic round these parts.

7Artemis717 votes

Calling Mordekaiser a marksman makes about as much sense as calling Janna as assassin.

Akeydel10 votes

Clearly you've never played AttackJanna™

Eeyore1 votes

Assassin is defined as a mobile/agile damage dealer who employs hit-and-run, stealth or ambush/opportunistic mechanics.

Yet Xerath and Malzahar are tagged as Assassins. Xerath features two abilities that self-lock down and Malzahar's damage rotation is also a lock-down; along with Vel'Koz they are literally the least mobile champions in the game. So I could totally see Janna fitting... she moves, after all.

(Clearly whoever tagged them thought that Assassin == Assassinate. It's for ADC =/= Carry that ADC was renamed.)

iamthegoatofwar1 votes

xerath ult is opportunistic for killing a low life enemy if they try to escape. Malzahar is a mage who uses a burst kit to assassinate targets.

Eeyore2 votes

Opportunistic refers to a gameplay/strategic window - not the enemy's health threshold. By that logic - Ziggs, Karthus and Lux are assassins. Having a "big finisher" doesn't make you an assassin.

The ability to burst is not an attribute of "assassins", it's an attribute of mages. Assassins are defined by their mobility.

A better name for the class would be "Rogue" or "Hunter", to borrow stealth-classes from other games.

Tribbles Foxfolk12 votes

"I breathe through my skin!" - Jim "F'n" Sterling "Son"

Chaotic Reks2 votes

Sniper Wolf?

Transgressor8 votes

I sexually identify myself as an attack helicopter I say it to myself therefore it's true because it is in my head

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/924/322/2ea.jpg

Viperjcs19855 votes

I really do not understand why people still can't figure out that it is for the new matchmaking system.

Mord is a top lane or a bot lane. People pick bot lanes to be marksmen + support. Therefore mord is a marksmen. No one chooses a mage or a fighter for bot lane, but most would be OK with a mord bot lane.

I admit Riots naming of positions is kinda dumb, but it is easy enough to figure out.

CrushforceX6 votes

You know in the new system, you can choose which role you are. I.E as garen, I would choose assassin, because thats how i build him. So, if they already have a tank jungler, i would be chosen for an assassin top. Really useful

Only Play Darius3 votes

Assassin Garen: Kills opponents in one spell rotation and dies early in teamfights

Juggernaut Garen: Kills opponents in one spell rotation and is near impossible to kill

I see no reason to build assassin

CrushforceX1 votes

Assassin kills quicker Anyways, that wasn't the point

Raid Boss Morde6 votes

But then this leaves newcomers to League utterly confused. They look through the champions, really liked Ashe from the tutorial. They want another ranged marksman... so they see Mordekaiser when searching for them. Buys him, plays him.... but realizes that Mordekaiser shares 0 qualities that a Marksman has.

Also, think about this. Mordekaiser's title you get for mastering him will make NO sense....

Malicious Metal6 votes

Congratulations, you've reached level 5 Pathfinder with Mordekaiser

Canastus1 votes

Now imagine Morde in a pathfinder get-up ala Teemo.

UtilityPunk1 votes

I feel like what I've written below could be its own post :L It's just the perspective of a middling player who hasn't made it to ranked yet, so please take it with a grain of salt. I may be a little off the mark with some of what I say, but I have tried my hardest to be accurate and insightful.

The Problem

The fact of the matter is that 'marksman', 'assassin', 'mage', etc are all listing the champion's design or gameplay. The roles they successfully play in a match are a different set of tags altogether.

TL;DR Riot is shoehorning morde because their classifications are too simple


A Potential Solution

If there was a separate set of tags for which lane/area the champion could play, then the matchmaker would work and there would be no so-called 'leaky abstractions'. In addition, the tags for each champion's playstyle could be kept logically consistent. I would propose three dimensions of champion class.

The first, Riot's traditional archetypes, classifies how they interact in battle with other champions. This first dimension is used primarily so that players can get a general understanding of potential purchases and to find similar kits.

The second dimension classifies which lanes/areas the champion can find success in. This dimension would be new (not to players) and consists of 'top', 'mid', 'bottom', and 'jungle'. Theoretically, any champion can be played in any area. In practice, some champions perform poorly in some regions of the map due to the accepted metagame, and the positioning/balance of buff monsters.

Elaboration; feel free to skip the following paragraph:

For example, Soraka doesn't have a great kit for jungling. As elaborated in this build guide, "[...]it's a joke [...] she has pretty mediocre clear times and unfortunately no gap closers or hard CC". Due to the accepted meta, sustain melee champions find the most success in the top lane while mid is difficult for them due to it being dominated by poke mages and other ranged champions that excel in controlling engagements. The bottom lane, due to its control of several important objectives, is where the duo lane is established by convention of meta. Meanwhile, the jungle tends to be champions with fairly good sustain and damage output; these champions double as powerful disruptors that wander in the fog of war, performing well-timed ganks or covering lanes when necessary.

The final dimension is a sub-dimension to the roles above. A champion may be a 'carry' or 'support'. By convention, the duo lane is covered by a carry and a support, as their strengths and weaknesses synergize very well. Support champions can play their role to the greatest success, having skills that support the team at the expense of their own sustain or 1v1 utility, and carries find the powerful sustain they often need to survive against a duo lane into their powerful mid-lategame. Because support and carry roles are determined by innate traits of champions, I classify these as a subdimension to the champion's laning role; a team can substitute if they find themselves lacking either of these two champion types, but the most equal matchups are generally where both teams have equal carries and supports.

TL;DR Riot shouldn't need to reclassify champions for matchmaking because players have already solved the problem.

TyRamos1 votes

{quoted}

I feel like what I've written below could be its own post :L It's just the perspective of a middling player who hasn't made it to ranked yet, so please take it with a grain of salt. I may be a little off the mark with some of what I say, but I have tried my hardest to be accurate and insightful.

The Problem

The fact of the matter is that 'marksman', 'assassin', 'mage', etc are all listing the champion's design or gameplay. The roles they successfully play in a match are a different set of tags altogether.

TL;DR Riot is shoehorning morde because their classifications are too simple


A Potential Solution

If there was a separate set of tags for which lane/area the champion could play, then the matchmaker would work and there would be no so-called 'leaky abstractions'. In addition, the tags for each champion's playstyle could be kept logically consistent. I would propose three dimensions of champion class.

The first, Riot's traditional archetypes, classifies how they interact in battle with other champions. This first dimension is used primarily so that players can get a general understanding of potential purchases and to find similar kits.

The second dimension classifies which lanes/areas the champion can find success in. This dimension would be new (not to players) and consists of 'top', 'mid', 'bottom', and 'jungle'. Theoretically, any champion can be played in any area. In practice, some champions perform poorly in some regions of the map due to the accepted metagame, and the positioning/balance of buff monsters.

Elaboration; feel free to skip the following paragraph:

For example, Soraka doesn't have a great kit for jungling. As elaborated in this build guide, "[...]it's a joke [...] she has pretty mediocre clear times and unfortunately no gap closers or hard CC". Due to the accepted meta, sustain melee champions find the most success in the top lane while mid is difficult for them due to it being dominated by poke mages and other ranged champions that excel in controlling engagements. The bottom lane, due to its control of several important objectives, is where the duo lane is established by convention of meta. Meanwhile, the jungle tends to be champions with fairly good sustain and damage output; these champions double as powerful disruptors that wander in the fog of war, performing well-timed ganks or covering lanes when necessary.

The final dimension is a sub-dimension to the roles above. A champion may be a 'carry' or 'support'. By convention, the duo lane is covered by a carry and a support, as their strengths and weaknesses synergize very well. Support champions can play their role to the greatest success, having skills that support the team at the expense of their own sustain or 1v1 utility, and carries find the powerful sustain they often need to survive against a duo lane into their powerful mid-lategame. Because support and carry roles are determined by innate traits of champions, I classify these as a subdimension to the champion's laning role; a team can substitute if they find themselves lacking either of these two champion types, but the most equal matchups are generally where both teams have equal carries and supports.

TL;DR Riot shouldn't need to reclassify champions for matchmaking because players have already solved the problem.

Here's the thing. I've played the new champion select experience. The tags Riot uses for champions has ZERO effect on who you can chose for your role. Wanna go support Malphite? Go for it, the teambuilder doesn't stop it. Want to go Top Annie? Same thing. There's no reason to change the tags. Because YOU chose the role, not the system.

UtilityPunk1 votes

{quoted}

Here's the thing. I've played the new champion select experience. The tags Riot uses for champions has ZERO effect on who you can chose for your role. Wanna go support Malphite? Go for it, the teambuilder doesn't stop it. Want to go Top Annie? Same thing. There's no reason to change the tags. Because YOU chose the role, not the system.

Okaaay, now I have no clue why they needed to change Morde's tag in the first place @.@ what's the logic behind it?

TyRamos1 votes

Here's the thing. I've played the new champion select experience. The tags Riot uses for champions has ZERO effect on who you can chose for your role. Wanna go support Malphite? Go for it, the teambuilder doesn't stop it. Want to go Top Annie? Same thing. There's no reason to change the tags. Because YOU chose the role, not the system.

LegacyDAP3 votes

Are we talking about Graves?

Vistha Kai3 votes

That reminds me of that whole "First girl in LCS" incident some time ago.

INB4 Here comes another Boards ban for me. Reason: Misogyny.

Samflash32 votes

Because a lot of people search for marksman. They should just change the tag to "Carry" or sth that is equivalent to high damage dealer like that so that tagline isnt restricted to ADCs alone.

Hyrum Graff6 votes

{quoted}

Because a lot of people search for marksman. They should just change the tag to "Carry" or sth that is equivalent to high damage dealer like that so that tagline isnt restricted to ADCs alone.

And replace "support" with "utility carry"

Samflash34 votes

Exactly. Because current support translates to "Marksman AID"

Dllesh1 votes

im sry i dont get it...

gameplay?

LF Annie5 votes

joke on morde tag change for new ranked game lobby next season.

Dllesh1 votes

ohh... ok, got it

S H A Y C 01 votes

Somebody watches foxdrop :P

Sona Ping9 votes

Not necessarily. If he did say that, (I wouldn't know) he is just copying a saying that has been around for a LONG time.

Shrek Luigi1 votes

Varus I'm a mage :^)

Eeyore1 votes

The should add an attribute that tracks positions the champion is played (based on player statistics). So Mordekaiser could be a Mage/Fighter with Top/Bot/Mid and then people could just search "Mid" rather than "Mage".

IcyPepper1 votes

Well, I'm not against attack helicopters.

I guess my mind is as open as the skies you belong in.

But in all seriousness, it doesn't make sense but I hear it's for teambuilder. Why people can't just queue up for marksman anyway with him is beyond me, classifying him as a marksman isn't going to change whether or not people will take him bot lane.

UtilityPunk1 votes

I thought the decision may have been a silly way to make teambuilder work. Now that I know it has nothing to do with making teambuilder work, I'm left wondering if cats were rolling over some riot employee's keyboard our something. It doesn't make any sense D:

morris11 votes

Heimerdinger makes for a better ADC than Mordekaiser

Yxion the Yordle1 votes

Sorry, I am only into low-orbit satellites.

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