Not liking something in a champion's kit doesn't make it "free"

Salron·May 19, 2017·42 votes·1,836 views

66 Comments

Mira Arya EntheMay 19, 201731 votes

Why do all champions get free HP bars? wtf?

PennsMay 19, 201720 votes

Kled gets a free second one tho

An Undead bratMay 19, 201720 votes

You ignorant prick, the second one is Skaarl's!!!

Glory ln DeathMay 19, 20179 votes

Kled gets a free Skaarl! You can't even buy those in the shop!

Skins ProjectMay 19, 20176 votes

Why does everyone get a free mana bar!

It's unfair that I can't use archangel's staff or muramana!

-Every Manaless champion.

Automated RivenMay 20, 20171 votes

some days I really wish riven had a mana bar.

Skins ProjectMay 20, 20171 votes

Ikr?

Muramana would be busted.

Automated RivenMay 20, 20171 votes

ya. I just want it for one patch. I would have so much fun not even gonna lie. I would be playing muramana triforce riven like a boss.

Skins ProjectMay 20, 20171 votes

AhristocatsMay 19, 201729 votes

jhin gets free ad from passive

"but he loses crit damage and attack speed"

doesn't matter, it's free

PimpStickNasusMay 19, 201722 votes

But what about yasuo free dashes and fizz free untargetabiliy and irelia's free nerfs?

Yaśuo MainMay 19, 20175 votes

And a "free" game that totally doesn't depend on whether you spend money on it or not makes it free/not free?

SalronMay 19, 201716 votes

Don't forget Ezreal's free flash and Morgana's free spellvamp FREE FREE FREE

PimpStickNasusMay 19, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cluqxiE4,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-05-19T01:20:15.084+0000)

Don't forget Ezreal's free flash and Morgana's free spellvamp FREE FREE FREE

Twitch and eve free invisibility Malph free shield Yi and Lucian free autos Vel koz free true damage Vayne free mobility and true damage Fiora free true damage Syndra free true damage Garen free heals and true damage WW free lifesteal Thresh free wife steal Blitz free hook Azir free soldiers Pantheon free spears Orianna free ball Lee sin free ward hop Lux free light Nami free big wave Ziggs free big bomb Ashe free big arrow Jax free lamppost

4th Chiming LambMay 19, 20173 votes

Jax free lamppost

And that was why I quit before...

WigglepufftuffMay 19, 20171 votes

Kassadin free flash I'm a Kassadin main, triggered from you not putting our glorious master of league in that list [slayer-jinx-unamused]

PimpStickNasusMay 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Kassadin free flash I'm a Kassadin main, triggered from you not putting our glorious master of league in that list [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Kassadin free mr Kassadin free shield Kassadin free empowered auto Kassadin free mana Kassadin free slow Kassadin free win

BârdMay 19, 201713 votes

Vayne "Fuck Yasuo. He gets 100% crit chance for fucking free"

Bard "But... he has to buy 50% crit for that to happen, so that's by definition not free..."

Vayne "Fuck you"

Serika ZeroMay 19, 20171 votes

so, lets fix that.

Fuck Yasuo, he gets 50% crit chance for free

Chembaron YamadaMay 19, 20176 votes

Still has to buy 50% crit chance for that, so still not free.

Serika ZeroMay 19, 20171 votes

its free, because other people except trinda need to buy that extra 50% as well

AtanchanMay 19, 20175 votes

BOGO still means you have to pay, even if you get extras for free, however.

TehNACHOMay 19, 201711 votes

Don't forget to complain about free passives.

Even though passives by nature tend to be free.

Shush.

IcyPepperMay 19, 20176 votes

Well, they're considered part of a champion's "power budget."

Nothing in a champion's kit is truly free.

deadlychuckMay 19, 20171 votes

Yeah, but most champions also don't tend to have multiple passives equal or stronger to that of the average champion. Ekko basically gets his actual passive, which is about as powerful and as functional as Leblanc passive, and he gets his W passive, which is again as powerful and functional as a Zed passive.

Obviously they differ to some extent, riot wouldn't want to give champions the same ability, but the point is that they are roughly equal in respect to power. LB's has higher late game base damage, but ekko's grants MS, they have the same recharge and scaling. Zed's passive applies "once every few seconds" (thx wiki), and triggers at 50% health, and is purely base damage, where ekko's W passive applies at 30% health, has no recharge, and scales with AP, 3% per 100AP which works out to be about 200 AP to make it equal damage to zed's 10% base damage, though trades being "maximum health" for "missing health". Though considering it triggers at 30% maximum health, even being generous that just means multiply it's damage by 0.7...

Yet even to remove ekko's W passive doesn't make his W useless (it's still a very powerful tool without it), but all it does is create vulnerabilities which can be exploited when playing against ekko. He used his burst combo on you and now you're at 20% HP? Well he's waiting on CDs, so go aggressive to equalize the trade or push a kill. Where does his W passive fit into his power budget? Because it would seem he'd be closer to the approximate "average" power without it.

skyskee008May 19, 20173 votes

Unlike Zed or Leblanc, Ekko doesn't really have the power to 100-0 anyone unless super fed or late game against someone not building any MR. Most of his damage comes from his 3 stack passive + lich bane

Also this: unlike Zed Ekko can't auto people to death at low health - because he's not an AD assassin. Like let's say Ekko was an AD champion and all of his abilities scaled off of AD. He wouldn't need that passive because whacking people with 300+ AD would be good enough. Versus right now where he has like 100 AD.

deadlychuckMay 19, 20171 votes

I said that he wasn't AD and as such didn't have the ability to auto attack people who he didn't kill with his burst, that's kinda the point of him being AP.

What i'm saying is that he has the mechanics to kill people, even if he doesn't have the ability to 100-0 someone, and there is no reason to give him the ability to finish people off who he couldn't 100-0, because of these extra mechanics which he has which allow him to disengage, or stall until he's able to fire off another set of spells.

He doesn't need the W passive, on the basis that an ekko, if played correctly, has all of the mechanics needed for him to beat and kill an enemy, under the assumption he is played correctly, without the passive. All it does is function as a margin of error for when an ekko player fails to play up to the champion's potential. Yes, without W, he would have a harder time killing champions, but the champion doesn't become any less capable of killing champions.

BakedLotionMay 19, 20175 votes

Tbh yasuo can probably survive without 15 passives

SalronMay 19, 20177 votes

But he only has 2 tho

ThePikolMay 19, 20172 votes

He has few hidden. Did you know this one: "Last Breath (R) will attempt to position Yasuo outside enemy turret range when blinking to an enemy standing close to one" ?

SalronMay 19, 20177 votes

That's more of a part of the ability That's not really passive if it only affects the same ability itself

ThePikolMay 19, 20171 votes

Therefore none of things listed on this discussion is passive and just "past of ability"

SalronMay 19, 20177 votes

But This thread isn't only about passives...?

Sir FuzziMay 19, 20175 votes

Fucking Riot and their free game. Nerf.

RebonackMay 19, 20174 votes

Kog gets free movespeed when you kill him.

hotarseMay 19, 20173 votes

There are aspects to certain champs that aren't show in numbers. Things like cast time, missile speed on dashes, projectile sizes are all things that are rarely discussed when considering balance. I find that a lot of the more popular champs with extreme mobility also benefit from have little to no cast times and very fast missile speed on their dashes. Many of them also do not need to target enemies with their dash so they can go anywhere with them. Or if they do, in the case of Yasuo, they get limitless dashes.

While some might say the rest of their kit is balanced around this, I would say that it doesn't matter. Those kinds of advantages are very difficult to play around and to beat outside of having much better stats. There's a reason healing was nerfed to never be that powerful on supports.

And for that same reason, Riot Game should tone down some of the most extreme cases of mobility in League of Legends by lower missile speeds (more counter play since you have more time to react/move your mouse to target the moving object) and cast times (same reason).

The most complained about champs in the game almost all have one common denominator, insane mobility.

deadlychuckMay 20, 20171 votes

The problem is that there have only ever, in the history of the whole game, been changes to the fundamental mechanics of many abilities, without a total rework.

Recently the best example of this is probably that they're actually adjusting the delay on malzahar's Q, but that's still one of very few examples of them changing the hitbox, aoe, range, missile speed, delay, exc, of an ability in respect to balance. The only other example i can come up with off of the top of my head is lucian's Q delay.

hotarseMay 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that there have only ever, in the history of the whole game, been changes to the fundamental mechanics of many abilities, without a total rework.

Recently the best example of this is probably that they're actually adjusting the delay on malzahar's Q, but that's still one of very few examples of them changing the hitbox, aoe, range, missile speed, delay, exc, of an ability in respect to balance. The only other example i can come up with off of the top of my head is lucian's Q delay.

Actually, Leblanc's dash missile speed was nerfed at one point, but then brought back up (though not to the original speed but almost). It was not one of their ninja nerfs either. Patch notes stated it.

SaiannaMay 19, 20173 votes

If champion is overloaded, then all the unecessary things he has are indeed 'free'.

End of topic.

Chembaron YamadaMay 19, 20172 votes

Wrong. This game is free to play, you don't have to pay anything to play it and you don't have to pay for the champions. That means every single skill in this game is free. :O