@Meddler, Turrets are depressingly weak, and still getting a nerf on PBE. Why?

Anisoptera·Jun 17, 2015·123 votes·28,672 views

Ok, so the first turret feels like a small achievement when you bring it down, because a lot of that success is based on the performance of the lane + help from the jungler. The rest of the turrets in game are pathetic, especially inhibitor turrets and nexus turrets. Even squishies can stand under and absorb plenty of damage. Nothing is worse than seeing a Tryndamere or Jinx just rip a turret down like it is wet tissue paper. And don't even get me started on turrets not focusing champs when they dive you. This is still a recurring and occasional bug, and I have lost ranked games because of this.

Turrets should be much more threatening. I remember when I started playing, very late into season 3. I regarded turrets as deadly towers which I could be safe under. Those days seem long gone.

Nexus turrets should essentially feel like their team needs to be aced in order to take them down, instead of these pathetic lasers that we currently have. They should also destroy squishies very fast.

Riot, please give huge buffs to base turrets. Would like to also hear the official stance on turrets from a Rioter who is part of the balance team. All discussion welcome.

130 Comments

RiotMeddlerJun 18, 201552 votes

We originally added the slow (and a -damage mod) to the Nexus/Inihb towers as an anti split pushing effect, at a time where we were concerned that split push was leading to low interaction games. That's currently not the case however, very much the opposite in fact, with heavy team fight comps crowding out split push almost entirely. We're not looking to make split pushing a staple of every game, but do think we've limited it too much, hence the removal of those effects.

In terms of the broader purpose of towers it is intended that the risk they pose to enemy champions decreases over the course of the game. Early on they're zones of sanctuary, where it's extremely risky to try and go in for a kill much of the time. Over time they transition to a helper role instead. Towers will turn the tide of a close fight, but they're not going to be more dangerous than an enemy champion anymore. Late game in particular, once everyone's past the individual laning period, it's the presence of teammates instead that provides substantial zones of safety/support. Powerful late game towers, particularly if they can be held by a couple of champions against a full enemy team, result in slower, drawn out, low risk/interaction games.

FadedpfJun 18, 20156 votes

At least keep or buff the slow? The turrets feel not very punishing as it is, I like the fact that they at least had some weak slow as a utility to help your team out.

EeyoreJun 18, 201578 votes

I don't understand how the slow effect was ever suppose to counter split pushing - in fact, it usually acts to counter team fight comps that engage under tower.

Darn it, the slow was one of my favourite changes in the Preseason and this was playing against it as well as having it on my side - because the results were instantly measurable. The first time I tower dove for a kill and the tower slowed me down to the point I was unable to get in range AND DIED, I exclaimed in Skype "OMFG this stupid turret!" and my mate replied "Well you shouldn't have dove the enemies' base...". And I knew that. I knew I was being reckless for no reason. I felt like I was appropriately punished for making the wrong choice - and watching it happen over and over again still gives me good feels in my belly - e.g. you see their healthy fighter flash under tower and you flash away yourself and watching them struggle to disengage from their greedy decision (especially on champions like Diana with the slow-moving animation to really sell it). Sometimes the slow even helps you get away - making it the only turret that actually feels helpful to hide behind.

Remove the damage reduction if this turret really is stopping split pushers. But don't remove the slow. Q_Q

Maybe give it a backdoor-plating like effect? "If this turret selects an enemy champion as a target due to aggression on an ally, for the next 5 seconds its attacks are empowered to also reduce its target's damage by 15%." and make the lasers go thick and red (danger) rather than their usual amber.

EDIT: If you want a way to prevent stalling late game - maybe add a way to interact with the base gates? Maybe they can be destroyed just like any other structure (but respawn like an inhibitor) - or tie them into inhibitor deaths.

Slamurai JackJun 18, 20155 votes

The slow on the towers hurt split pushers because it made it far more difficult to dive and kill an enemy that tries to defend the tower. That is something strong split pushers need to be able to do. Any split pusher that can be held off easily 1v1 is worthless. As for nerfing the towers, yes, they will technically help tanks since it doesn't hurt them as much, it will help split pushers more, which hurts tanks.

EverTokkiJun 18, 201517 votes

I agree with this. The removal of two factors is what makes this change worse. I believe nexus towers are weak enough, (just watch any game and watch it go real fast) but this change was totally unnecessary.

Old Man TeetoJun 18, 20153 votes

The slow allowed champions to kite under the turret if they started to get dived.

This meant a large portion of champions who were strong enough late game to dive and kill you under turret were just being kited in circles and they had to instead kill the turret while not being murdered by their opponent while they wailed on it. Just as your story depicts, it WORKED and arguably too well.

As Meddler stated,

Powerful late game towers, particularly if they can be held by a couple of champions against a full enemy team, result in slower, drawn out, low risk/interaction games.

Lemons22Jun 18, 20151 votes

I don't see how anyone can enjoy playing against the turret slow. I hate that mechanic...it always baits me in. I think "man I can kill this weakling...I'm fed! Who cares about a little slow and damage reduction!" So I dive and then get my ass kited to hell and back, and I end up dying while they live with like 100 health. It's so freaking annoying. I hate anything in this game that promotes playing like a little bitch who just hides under their big bad turret jacking off. It's freaking insulting when they send their weakest team member to stave me off, and they know they can do it cause the turret is so OP. I'm all for this change.

EeyoreJun 18, 20159 votes

Not gonna lie - you're exactly the reason I enjoy having that turret. You were greedy and overconfident and you got played. It also makes it a necessary evil because why should you be able to single-handedly carry a game? There should always be options for the enemy team - and if goading you under the only useful turrets on the map deals with you, then good. ^_^

OldDirtayJun 18, 20155 votes

{quoted}

We originally added the slow (and a -damage mod) to the Nexus/Inihb towers as an anti split pushing effect, at a time where we were concerned that split push was leading to low interaction games. That's currently not the case however, very much the opposite in fact, with heavy team fight comps crowding out split push almost entirely. We're not looking to make split pushing a staple of every game, but do think we've limited it too much, hence the removal of those effects.

In terms of the broader purpose of towers it is intended that the risk they pose to enemy champions decreases over the course of the game. Early on they're zones of sanctuary, where it's extremely risky to try and go in for a kill much of the time. Over time they transition to a helper role instead. Towers will turn the tide of a close fight, but they're not going to be more dangerous than an enemy champion anymore. Late game in particular, once everyone's past the individual laning period, it's the presence of teammates instead that provides substantial zones of safety/support. Powerful late game towers, particularly if they can be held by a couple of champions against a full enemy team, result in slower, drawn out, low risk/interaction games.

lol the reason they dont dive turrets to begin with is because they hurt.... so your removing this to make more teamfights?

sounds like a snowball effect to the snowball effect when everyone wants them to do more damage

do you even read the stuff you type? lol what am i thinking, thats like thinking you use the pbe to fix things LOL

ParessJun 18, 201517 votes

Do you at least understand that it's a huge buff to Tanks ?

I mean, slow was one of the only way to prevent from 30 seconds diving, now they're just gonna make a walk like nothing happened ...

Huang ShaotianJun 18, 201510 votes

Can you change the base towers back to cannon hits instead of a steady lazer. I find it really difficult to judge tower damages and effectiveness with the constant stream. There's no clear points of damage. IMO this is the worst readability change rito has ever made for both attacking and defending. If you want faster more consistent damage, just make the missiles fire faster.

Or can you at the very very least explain to me why this change was made? Why the lazer?

Noctius28Jun 18, 20153 votes

Problem is most turrets can be dived at level 3/4 by alot of champions (normal turrets) like renekton, irelia, teemo, darius, Garen and so forth, without any consequences, maybe add a snare or stun in the first turret shot to an enemy champion? This could help avoid dives early game and keep them as a sanctuary, plus I also think turrets should have augmented range against ranged enemies, most top laners can't even stay under turret vs a teemo thanks to his Q and autos I had a singed on my teemo get completly canned thanks to a poking teemo

But that's just my scrub opinion and you guys only care about the ranked pros, screw the average joe right...

LuciferJun 18, 20154 votes

{quoted}

We originally added the slow (and a -damage mod) to the Nexus/Inihb towers as an anti split pushing effect, at a time where we were concerned that split push was leading to low interaction games. That's currently not the case however, very much the opposite in fact, with heavy team fight comps crowding out split push almost entirely. We're not looking to make split pushing a staple of every game, but do think we've limited it too much, hence the removal of those effects.

In terms of the broader purpose of towers it is intended that the risk they pose to enemy champions decreases over the course of the game. Early on they're zones of sanctuary, where it's extremely risky to try and go in for a kill much of the time. Over time they transition to a helper role instead. Towers will turn the tide of a close fight, but they're not going to be more dangerous than an enemy champion anymore. Late game in particular, once everyone's past the individual laning period, it's the presence of teammates instead that provides substantial zones of safety/support. Powerful late game towers, particularly if they can be held by a couple of champions against a full enemy team, result in slower, drawn out, low risk/interaction games.

I disagree. Even late game, people should not be able to be standing under turrets for as long as they are. Both tanks and non-tanks. It's also kind of ridiculous how easy it is to juggle aggro with them, as their damage resets. I honestly think the beams were better than the lasers on the base turrets, and I would like to see them done away with.

BallisticMouseJun 18, 201510 votes

"Early on they're zones of sanctuary" You're dead wrong. Tower dives as low as level 2-3 are pretty common.

Vistha KaiJun 18, 20155 votes

The reality here is that the slow and damage reduction is much more valuable in teamfights that it is aganist splitpushing.

So as a part of diversity you buff teamfighting which is already strong.

Way. To. Go.

LaceUp23Jun 18, 20158 votes

Turrets used to be stronger and I don't remember games being low risk and drawn out.

AnisopteraJun 18, 20156 votes

The anti-split push effect doesn't really do anything as far as the nexus turrets are concerned IMO. If they are almost about to attack the Nexus itself, its either due to an ace or a successful baron (these minions destroy towers fast, especially cannon minions) or you are outnumbered. A full tank Sion should be fine to a certain extent under these turrets, but ADCs and assassins should be melted. Also, like already mentioned, this is a big buff to tanks, but even more for squishy champions.

From a thematic standpoint, it doesn't make sense that the most important objective on the map is protected by the weakest turrets, which is a shame.

This nerf to towers will make games snowball even harder now.

Earl EulrichJun 18, 201514 votes

currently there are two major problems from my perspective:

towers aren´t a "zone of sanctuary" early on, 2v1 dives are really easy to do even on lvl 3 vs too many Champions...and looking at the prolvl - i donßt think it´s fair that you cannot defend a turret 3v4 if the 4 don´t missplay it heavily (which by the way is why currently it often ends up with 4-0 pushing again, as trying to defend turrets early on is just suicide). It also heavily limits the amount of viable sololane-champs, as everyone that is vulnerable to early diving is just too risky often times. Shifting the Shield from the 2nd to the 1st turret could help a lot here.
towers don´t deal substantial more dmg to squishies than they do to tanks. They have too much armor-pen and by far not enough base-dmg. with just a warmogs you can tank them aslong as someone with a ruby cristall, a thornmail and a randuins combined. It´s also one of the very reasons Assassins snowball as hard and feel as frustrating for a lot of players like they do currently - if you´re ahead only slightly with LB you can easily take 3 turret-hits when diving and still get away with it as one of the squishiest champs there is. Tanking turrets should be primarily a main reason to bring a tank along in the first place.

It´s not the turrets that prolong games, it´s players that shy away from every risk because you overhype K/D/A instead of results.

DeynaTaggerungJun 18, 20154 votes

While I agree with many of your points I want to point out that moving the shield from second to the first turret is a really bad idea. While it would be frustrating for mid and top I think bot lane would take it the hardest. Shoving the wave in and then harassing the opponent under the turret to make them take damage and miss cs is a really common and cool strategy. In fact it's a large part of bot lane interaction. But with the shield then all of a sudden that auto-harass could just be ignored at first. This would just make the lanes more boring because for anything to happen people would just try to keep the wave frozen in the middle.

Sire HippingtonJun 18, 20153 votes

that depends on the tuneing, and it would help one of the major toplane problems: heavy snowballing and massive bullying from ranged vs melee. Tuneing the tower shield so that it needs two AAs from ranged champs in the early till they have some ad, it would help to actually be somewhat save under the tower. However, if the enemie as+sup(like cait+lulu) each do one AA on the tower after shoving in, the shield would be gone and they could harras as usually, just with slightly more effort, which is good imo. You could also make the shield a bit yasuo like, vanashing ~1.5sec after takeing damage and then needing to built up, so only the first Burst is blocked so helping little vs harres but more vs dives, building up faster for melees as they need more protection vs ranged poke earlyrather than vs all-in dives. Haveing lower ranged and getting shoved into your turrent and reciving harras every time you try to CS is one of the least fun things in lol, and all that currently helps in such a situation is your jungle, which in soloQ isn't reliable, getting a bit more protection, especially as melee, would really help the game.

DeynaTaggerungJun 18, 20152 votes

I really like the idea of the yasuo-like shield that would give people csing under turret a little protection while not removing the harass as a viable option. Maybe the shield can either be broken by 2-3 autos on the turret OR 2 seconds after damage is dealt to the champion with the shield on them. Possibly the champs get a larger shield than the turret does.

Looking at it like that I actually like the idea because it gives counterplay for people on the defensive and pressures them to make use of their advantage before it gets negated.

Also this would help to reward mid/top laners for freezing the wave by shielding them from some of the harass making people with poor early games a little more viable (there might need to be some tuning on champs if that makes them too strong).

Best thing, is that it's a free counter to Riven spamming her turret dive ;)

VekknaJun 18, 20151 votes

I think that overly-favors playing defense. If the aggressive side is wide open to ganks, there should be reward to that risk as far as sieging is concerned.

Sire HippingtonJun 18, 20152 votes

in soloQ, thats a valid concern, but in coordinated teams, pushing out with a toplaner that doesn't have good tools to survive ganks is gegnerally a big mistake, unless your jungler is around for a counter gank. In order to reward agressive laneing, laners(especially at top) need better tools to avoid ganks, else only champs with massive escape like riven or renekton can afford to go agressive, and even they have to be carefully as they need there engage also for escape.

A towershield would be a slight increase in that matter, but defense is peomoted over agerssion already due jungle pressure.

EK KimozziJun 18, 20152 votes

Nasus YES YES! YES!!!

The EllimiistJun 18, 20157 votes

As a long time Dota player I feel that without some way to quickly get to a turret for defense this can be detrimental. I recently won a game simply by having my team sit around the enemy's blue 20s before dragon spawned and instead of contesting dragon we just bum rushed thier turret/inhib while they took dragon. I also have friends who have made it from silver to diamond simply playing tryndamere and hitting turrets and hiding in a bush when enemies defend.

As someone who is use to having an entire team able to tp to a tower for defense at a moment's notice, the particularly weak towers in LoL seem very abusable. Also worth mentioning that teamfight comps may be the norm in LCS/Pro play but i'm not so sure that tend holds when looking at overall public games where I see Nasus/Trynd and other split pushers almost every game.

exe3Jun 18, 201515 votes

{quoted}

Powerful late game towers, particularly if they can be held by a couple of champions against a full enemy team, result in slower, drawn out, low risk/interaction games.

Which is why (imo) tower combat needs to focus around items like Ohmwrecker, Zz'Rot Portal and Banner of Command* so that there are options to play around them and take them down other than because they arbitrarily become worthless after X minutes in the game. I just loathe that a tank can walk around under a turret and literally take no damage. Under no circumstances should be possible. Getting tanky should allow you to withstand turrets longer to allow for a dive but being practically impervious to them trivializes turrets.

And while you're here do you have any thoughts on the mid turret shields? A while back the shield for the mid-lane turret was removed and the shield for the side-lane turrets reduced so much the shield mechanic itself may as well get removed, do you have any thoughts on where that mechanic is at now?

*Which funnily enough are all severely underused items because they're essentially solutions in search of a problem since turrets aren't a threat hence there's no real need for these items.

Firefox509Jun 18, 20159 votes

Yes, make these anti-turret siege items actually worthwhile to buy and use. Currently the turrets are just too weak to even bother needing to buy a single item or two to help stop a siege just because the the turrets are incredibly weak and easy to dive.

Making the turrets stronger will actually make these items worth buying, increasing their "diversity" and overall game strategy. We have the items to counter strong turrets. People just don't want to buy them because they don't have to.

Also IMO i just think the laser turrets should not loose their heat when changing targets and switch targets quicker. But that's just a side off-topic comment, move along.

ValyrianBladeJun 18, 20154 votes

Has there been any consideration to changing the early game power level of turrets? I agree that they should be a place of sanctuary early, diving should be strongly deterred. Yet I find their power isn't like this at all.

Even pre-6, supports will tank the turret in 2v1 dives bot Lane. Often someone will tank a couple hits during a jungle gank. Successfully taking anything more than 1 turret shot during a dive pre-6 should be reserved for the very few champs that have something in their kit to encourage diving...

On the other hand, I find trying to take that first turret to be very frustrating. I can be winning Lane pretty consistently where my opponent refuses to feed me and just bases repeatedly early game. So I push the lane in and do some turret damage each time, yet it never seems to add up. Eventually their turret is at half health and mine's not yet touched and I get ganked and escape to recall and my turret is destroyed before I get back. They've recalled under pressure 5 times and I've only got theirs to half health, the first time i recall without pushing out the wave first I lose the whole thing. It happens because there seems to be this point where champions suddenly start to deal a lot more damage to turrets and the enemy has their jungler helping to take it down.

What I want is: Early game turrets to be more threatening when a champion is there. Dives should be strongly discouraged unless the enemy is nearly dead and you're nearly full. Early game turrets to be easier to take. Reward people who win push out a safe opponent who refuses to give up kills (specifically weak roamers who can't get kills elsewhere).

I'd suggest making a change to Tier 1 turrets: 1 - increased damage to champions when an allied champion is under the turret. If an allied champion moves within the turret range, the turret gains 10% bonus damage to champions per second stacking up to 5 seconds (the bonus could be altered). This makes chasing someone into their turret unchanged, but makes diving someone more risky once they've safely been at their turret for a while (i.e. you're waiting for your jungler to come tank it). 2 - bonus damage against turrets. If no allied champion is within a larger range of a Tier 1 turret, the first champion to attack the turret receives a buff that increases their damage against turrets for a few seconds. Either on-hit, or attack speed boost, or otherwise.

I think this would transform turrets in to what they spoils be early game. Places of safety for a defender, but a key objective to take when your enemy surrenders map pressure. Not everyone can roam or take Dragon whenever they push the enemy out of lane.

Teridax68Jun 18, 20154 votes

I think a current issue with making turrets weak as they are, especially now with the removal of the laser turrets' debuffs, is that they feel bad even at a time where players expect them to be strong. Hard-pushing a lane and reaching an inhibitor turret within 10-15 minutes tends to be a rare thing, but even in that situation the inhibitor turrets feel relatively weak. There's also a lot of frustration with tower dives, I think: players are conditioned to feel that turrets will always offer a last line of defense during the laning phase, but from level 6 and onwards even squishy champions can dive targets and make it out alive.

I think there's a distinction here that needs to be made between the different aspects of turrets, namely their damage output and their tankiness. Tankier turrets would definitely stall out games, since it would take more resources for each structure to fall, but increasing their damage or other effects might offer more protection in the right situations without creating unhealthy amounts of stalling. If you made laser turrets deal maximum health-scaling true damage which ramped up over time, for example, it would have a minimal effect in discouraging splitpushing, but would prevent tanks from building tons of health and just sitting under those turrets indefinitely during teamfights. In general, health-stacking feels a bit too good against turrets, and now that health options are far more accessible, and often very powerful, I feel turrets have become weaker as a consequence.

SantanaTheSlick Jun 18, 20152 votes

You could make it so enemy abilities don't proc off towers i get tried of Nasus Udyr don't get away with being tanky and destroying towers in like 4 hits with a sheen proc

ImHerVoiceJun 19, 20152 votes

the slow was to counter dives. Not split pushing Meddler, don't be so dumb... Come now. At least argue with something that makes sense.

CaelerJun 18, 201511 votes

I feel like the damage to tanks is almost balanced to be honest. They stand on it for a little bit and then they start getting melted really fast. The inhib and nexus turrets could use slight buffs so they ramp up faster, but they're not really in a bad spot versus tanks in my opinion.

I think the main issue with the turrets is that they do almost no damage to squishies. It's so bad that the enemy carry can dive pretty tanky people and get away with it. Then they walk out, auto attack a minion about four times and they're back at full hp thanks to lifesteal.

Tanks can stand under the towers for a long time, yes, but they probably aren't going to heal all of their hp back in 3 seconds afterwards.

Another issue with the towers is juggling agro. Because the damage has to ramp up, you can tank the tower for a couple of seconds, walk out, have someone else tank it, and then walk back in and tank some more because the tower just reset its damage.

This brings me back to the first point, which is that the towers should ramp up faster. It currently takes 5 seconds for the inhib and nexus towers to charge up to max damage. I think the towers would be a lot better with a 4 second charge time instead (20% faster yay) because the faster charge time would help address basically every problem the towers have without making them overbearing or too strong.

LuggJun 18, 20152 votes

You obviously haven't watched the video of the Sion tanking the Nexus turret for literally 33 seconds and not dying. Base tower damage is a complete joke right now. Kat can pop under one of them, ult with the tower and 3 people hitting her, and not die for Christ sakes.

ChaoticPineconeJun 18, 20152 votes

you mean the clip of the 3 hour game when the Sion had 27,000 HP, 6300 cs and was tanking the nexus for 17 seconds?

LuggJun 18, 20151 votes

No, this was one where he literally stood under the Nexus for 33 seconds before he had to leave. They had a timer going for the whole thing. It was ridiculous.

ChaoticPineconeJun 18, 20152 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsNvV9IBJGQ

is the only one i could find.

MinrogJun 18, 20154 votes

That 27k hp Sion was tanking the Fountain Laser, not a Nexus Turret.

Nexus Turrets do waaaaay less damage than the Fountain Laser does, and a normal Sion with 4-5k hit points can last a long time against them.

ChaoticPineconeJun 18, 20152 votes

i googled and youtube searched "sion tanking nexus" and this is the only vid that came up with the reworked sion.

LuggJun 18, 20151 votes

If you want to really see how weak towers are, here is Heimerdinger tanking turrets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqqbhNcC3vE

ChaoticPineconeJun 18, 20152 votes

Youre talking about a full build tank who can tank turrets. Take the champion with the highest base health regen (40 at 18? The average isnt even 20), stack heath regen items that are multiplicative of base stats + heath and armor, and he can tank quite a lot.

CaelerJun 19, 20151 votes

So basically a Heimer with a troll tank build that wouldn't work in a real game can tank towers for a long time?

Also, the towers on Howling Abyss aren't anywhere near as strong as the towers on Summoner's Rift. The nexus turrets on Howling Abyss have 223 AD (at max) and .83 AS. They also have way less armor pen and don't ramp up to as much damage albeit they do ramp up faster. The nexus turrets on Summoner's Rift have 290 AD (at max) and 4.0 AS. They have more than twice the armor pen and deal up to 125% bonus damage compared to Howling Abyss's 75%.

LuggJun 19, 20151 votes

The towers on HA are the same as the outer towers on SR. I linked the video to show how stupid low the damage is to make a point.

CaelerJun 19, 20151 votes

The towers on HA are the same as the outer towers on SR

Wow congrats. You completely invalidated my point that the inhib and nexus towers on SR deal pretty good damage to tanks.

HA is supposed to be a 20-30 minute game mode. The towers aren't supposed to be strong.

Your argument in a nutshell:

The towers on HA do low damage to full build tanks so the towers on SR must be weak too.

That's like saying Wolves don't do any damage so neither does Baron.

And outer turrets deal low damage to full build tanks? Who would have thought that the weakest towers with the worst scaling would be bad lategame?

You completely ignored my point that that Heimer build would never work in a real game. Zed could build straight tank and tank all the towers too. He'd also be completely useless to his team because he'd have no damage, CC, or defensive steroids.

Also still waiting for you to provide that clip of the Sion tanking for 33 seconds.

LuggJun 20, 20151 votes

The point was that a mage could tank the tower that is of equal strength to a tower on SR, so of course a tank can do the same with no problem what so ever. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

I havent found that clip yet. It was in an older post.

CaelerJun 20, 20151 votes

It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

Neither is the fact that the point of discussion was the SR inhib and nexus towers. This entire thread is about SR towers and you're trying to bring up HA towers. If you want to argue with my point that the SR inhib and nexus towers deal decent damage to tanks, then you need to stop trying to show that they don't using completely different towers with completely different stats.

Until then this discussion is over.

Iron IV dudeJun 25, 20152 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGOkvCfHBcQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vr7WAxRLMU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jUval-5mIM

now stop crying that your op towers just suck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tNv0MeK58o love the fact, that towers start to attack minions after the champion leaves aggro range, instead of attacking the very next champion that attacked... Kinda ultimate exploiting imho

Earl EulrichJun 18, 20154 votes

I tend to agree here...for a tank turrets should be tankable, especially later on. But currently they donßt deal nearly enough dmg to squishies due to their high arp/low basedmg.

qetzelJun 18, 20159 votes

I disagree with this. I think turrets need to be somewhat weak. Diving them should be a risk, but if they are too strong then games will not end. I don't like that idea.

I actually quite like the way they are balanced now. When I dive I know there is a risk but also know that if the team plays well or we are far enough ahead we can do it.

AnisopteraJun 18, 201523 votes

Its less about the risk and more about the fact they are near useless late game other than something to slightly slow the process of knocking an inhibitor down and spawning super minions. Obviously a 4v1 dive is the end of the line for the one person, and thats ok. But 1v1 dives could and maybe should be more punishing. I don't mean when the defender is on 23 health, I mean when half the health bar is still there. Without a Zhonyas, a Zed or LeBlanc won't think twice about it, which will earn you a grey screen and a free trip back to the fountain. I suppose that is where outplaying comes into mind. Not too sure about first turrets or even second turrets, but that isn't the core issue here.

The main problem is the laser turrets.

Those lasers give squishies a gentle tickle late game, which is not OK. The niche for tanks is that they should have less to fear from turrets. The removal of the slow on PBE means that they can take less damage from walking away without being slowed.

NarasimhaJun 18, 20156 votes

In all honesty, I'm going to take the opinion that they should be pretty weak late game. Otherwise, you end up with three scenarios.

Games going for exceedingly long times because teams can't rush towers
A super tank meta emerging to deal with the turrets
Stall comps that rely on the last defenses to hold out until their late game carry is fed to the brim.

I've always felt that turrets have 3 'stages'. Early game, they're a defense, a primary means of safety. Mid game, they're an aid, something to help a sieged team. Late game, they're a deterrent, something that might make the enemy team think atleast once before rushing, but it isn't a huge benefit.

Also, not sure why people think the lasers are weak, the damage adds up. I think after 2-3 seconds they start to vastly outdamage other turrets.