ADCs are fine

WitchQueen Annie··12 votes·1,561 views

Many calls for ADCs to be "fixed" are based on blatant falsehoods. For instance, the following notions are completely wrong/misleading:

  1. ADCs deal 80% of the team's damage (in fact, in a large proportion of games, Mid deals the most damage and in nearly all games, any other 3 roles added together surpass the ADC's damage)
  2. ADCs are mana-less sustained burst damage dealers (in fact, this is not the case by default, unless massively fed, they are DPS champs who rely on the front line to set up plays and appropriate peel and positioning by team mates)
  3. **ADCs right click to win **(in fact, this is a gross oversimplification of the positional complexity, mechanical skill and game knowledge needed to actually play the role well consistently)
  4. ADCs have an extremely cheap build that immediately allows them to massively power spike even when not snowballing (this is actually not the case, ADCs do not power spike to "god mode" at 1 or 2 items, in fact, the vast majority of ADCs like Jinx, Tristana, and Vayne in fact now require three items before hitting that hyper carry phase. For the ADCs that hit their spikes earlier, such as Jhin or Ashe, they fairly fall off relative to other hypercarries later)
  5. The better bot lane wins the game (the truth is that this is true half the time and false half the other time, mid in fact deals the most damage in enough games that statistically speaking, a stomping bot lane doesn't guarantee the win condition)
  6. ADCs are mana-less burst mages/mana-less assassins (This is a blatant falsehood. The comparisons are hyperbole to the max but suffice to say, ADCs do not have the range or utility to be compared to mages and they don't have the mobility to be compared to assassins; plus they are not burst by default, only if fed through appropriate teamwork and coordination)

Since the calls for ADCs to be fixed are based on so many misleading statements; I think I'm leaning towards them being fine in this meta

14 Comments

DarkLordArbitur5 votes

came looking for house on fire meme.

was disappointed.

SwiftKitten885 votes

ok adc ARE broken... but i really help riot adresses them properly.. becuase it not the actaul ADC "champsion" that are broken and in needs of nerfs... its their items..

that and the damage creep caused by runes.

i dont have the data myself... but im sure some people could pull of the amount of AD that was on items in season 3. and its about half to 2/3 what it is now.

where as at the same time.. AP champs have LESS ap per item and to make up for it we are REQIURED to get a item 3089 which has an absolutely ABSURD 35% ratio..

what mages need is a higher base damage on every item and less from item 3089 so its not fucking REQUIRED.\

and it also donest help the pretty much all mages are forced to get item 3003 even if they dont want they scaling because its the ONLY decent mana item

WitchQueen Annie4 votes

mages must buy item 3089 in the same way that ADCs must buy item 3031; the fact that Deathcap is more expensive is balanced by the fact that mages have way more range than ADCs and in the first 15+ mins of the game can defeat ADCs 1 vs 1 through level advantage alone unless the ADC is fed as hell.

item 3003 is not the only viable AP item, some mages build item 3285

As for mage itemisation, its not any more or less restricted than ADCs. Each mage has a "meta" more or less fixed build path with slight adjustments depending on the matchup and team comps... just as each ADC has the same.

There's one meta build for Vayne and Tristana in the same way that there is one for Viktor, Ziggs etc. I don't see how mage itemisation is particularly poorly designed.

You have to remember that despite the hype of ADCs hard carrying, the truth is that for the first 20 mins of most games, the mid laner (whether mid or assassin) if he's even or ahead in lane can 1 vs 1 and murderstomp the ADC without the help of his team through EXP advantage alone.

Dead flag blues2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lannister Gold ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chuiENxm,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-04-20T05:01:30.057+0000)

mages must buy item 3089 in the same way that ADCs must buy item 3031; the fact that Deathcap is more expensive is balanced by the fact that mages have way more range than ADCs and in the first 15+ mins of the game can defeat ADCs 1 vs 1 through level advantage alone unless the ADC is fed as hell.

item 3003 is not the only viable AP item, some mages build item 3285

As for mage itemisation, its not any more or less restricted than ADCs. Each mage has a "meta" more or less fixed build path with slight adjustments depending on the matchup and team comps... just as each ADC has the same.

There's one meta build for Vayne and Tristana in the same way that there is one for Viktor, Ziggs etc. I don't see how mage itemisation is particularly poorly designed.

You have to remember that despite the hype of ADCs hard carrying, the truth is that for the first 20 mins of most games, the mid laner (whether mid or assassin) if he's even or ahead in lane can 1 vs 1 and murderstomp the ADC without the help of his team through EXP advantage alone.

item 3031 is a huge powerspike item 3089 is most of the time the latest item you buy (if you aren't way ahead).

Malix Farwin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lannister Gold ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chuiENxm,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-04-20T05:01:30.057+0000)

mages must buy item 3089 in the same way that ADCs must buy item 3031; the fact that Deathcap is more expensive is balanced by the fact that mages have way more range than ADCs and in the first 15+ mins of the game can defeat ADCs 1 vs 1 through level advantage alone unless the ADC is fed as hell.

item 3003 is not the only viable AP item, some mages build item 3285

As for mage itemisation, its not any more or less restricted than ADCs. Each mage has a "meta" more or less fixed build path with slight adjustments depending on the matchup and team comps... just as each ADC has the same.

There's one meta build for Vayne and Tristana in the same way that there is one for Viktor, Ziggs etc. I don't see how mage itemisation is particularly poorly designed.

You have to remember that despite the hype of ADCs hard carrying, the truth is that for the first 20 mins of most games, the mid laner (whether mid or assassin) if he's even or ahead in lane can 1 vs 1 and murderstomp the ADC without the help of his team through EXP advantage alone.

Mages have more range then ADCs. uh it is based HIGHLY on the mage and the adc, they are the most equal in that regard but thats it. As far as what people are talking about when we mean power spike we mean the cost of say item 3087 and item 3285 .

Athenes Lulu3 votes

Oh no, someone just said the truth! Burn this witch!

/s

LVL99 Helper TK1 votes

thisisfine.jpeg

Teridax681 votes

It's worth noting that Scarizard, a former member of Riot's Live Gameplay team, publicly admitted on Reddit that marksmen are unequivocally the most powerful class in the game, and that this discrepancy in power relative to other classes is "not particularly close" (his words, not mine). He and Riot Axes also mentioned how only a couple items are now enough for marksmen to enter late game mode, and how bot lane holds the most sway in the outcome of a match. Dismissing these complaints with retorts that are themselves both trite and unsubstantiated does not move discussion forward, and merely serves to spark yet another argument on a topic that has been addressed in much more interesting ways in the past.

Malix Farwin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lannister Gold ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chuiENxm,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-20T03:25:30.040+0000)

Many calls for ADCs to be "fixed" are based on blatant falsehoods. For instance, the following notions are completely wrong/misleading:

  1. ADCs deal 80% of the team's damage (in fact, in a large proportion of games, Mid deals the most damage and in nearly all games, any other 3 roles added together surpass the ADC's damage)
  2. ADCs are mana-less sustained burst damage dealers (in fact, this is not the case by default, unless massively fed, they are DPS champs who rely on the front line to set up plays and appropriate peel and positioning by team mates)
  3. **ADCs right click to win **(in fact, this is a gross oversimplification of the positional complexity, mechanical skill and game knowledge needed to actually play the role well consistently)
  4. ADCs have an extremely cheap build that immediately allows them to massively power spike even when not snowballing (this is actually not the case, ADCs do not power spike to "god mode" at 1 or 2 items, in fact, the vast majority of ADCs like Jinx, Tristana, and Vayne in fact now require three items before hitting that hyper carry phase. For the ADCs that hit their spikes earlier, such as Jhin or Ashe, they fairly fall off relative to other hypercarries later)
  5. The better bot lane wins the game (the truth is that this is true half the time and false half the other time, mid in fact deals the most damage in enough games that statistically speaking, a stomping bot lane doesn't guarantee the win condition)
  6. ADCs are mana-less burst mages/mana-less assassins (This is a blatant falsehood. The comparisons are hyperbole to the max but suffice to say, ADCs do not have the range or utility to be compared to mages and they don't have the mobility to be compared to assassins; plus they are not burst by default, only if fed through appropriate teamwork and coordination)

Since the calls for ADCs to be fixed are based on so many misleading statements; I think I'm leaning towards them being fine in this meta

They arent based on those they are based on real stuff like how fast they spike due to how cheap their items are compared to other laners. That is indeed a fact.

I notice your counter arguement about them spiking. It seems that you are confused when people say spike. They do not mean they reach their strongest point. They mean they are outscaling everyone else early because their first item is cheaper than everyone elses. Theres a difference. Furthermore you getting your first three items is much quicker than everyone else getting theirs. Not to mention as soon as u win your tane you are taking cs from most lanes and snowballing even harder.

WitchQueen Annie2 votes

The ADC with the 1 item isn't going to do a whole lot unless he's way fed and got there way early.

Assuming neither the ADC and Mage is fed and both are even with laners... at 1 item the Mage has far more contribution to the team for the next 10 mins.

I play both Mages and ADCs and I'd take the unfed Mage with the Luddens over the ADC with the single Crit item any day.

With your range, EXP advantage, and AOE damage capability you do so much more.

From my experience unless fed, the ADCs not going to have ground-breaking impact until 2-3 items. A mage and assassin can hit the game immediately at 1 item and start making super big plays.

Malix Farwin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lannister Gold ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chuiENxm,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-04-20T13:40:36.811+0000)

The ADC with the 1 item isn't going to do a whole lot unless he's way fed and got there way early.

Assuming neither the ADC and Mage is fed and both are even with laners... at 1 item the Mage has far more contribution to the team for the next 10 mins.

I play both Mages and ADCs and I'd take the unfed Mage with the Luddens over the ADC with the single Crit item any day.

With your range, EXP advantage, and AOE damage capability you do so much more.

From my experience unless fed, the ADCs not going to have ground-breaking impact until 2-3 items. A mage and assassin can hit the game immediately at 1 item and start making super big plays.

The Mid and top are not going to do much with just 1 item. The problem comes with how fast you get that 1 item before anyone else. That is what is known as a spike. Furthermore what makes you think once they reach that spike they will suddenly get the second item before the people that were behind them will.

When people say bot is the problem they mean exactly that, they are getting their items too fast and that situation gets compounded when there are too people down there to feed the ADC kills instead of 1 like solo lanes.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

people over-fixate on the complete gold cost of the ADC's first item and the Mage/Assassin's first item and not on actual capability and EXP...

At 10-12 mins into a game assuming the Mage/Assassin ad the ADC has the same gold they will each have a semi-completed first item (the ADC's first item is cheaper so they have a closer to complete item)...

Now the mage/assassin has more EXP (from solo lane), has a kit that has more range/mobility/safety/CC.

So who is going to do more?

The mid.

In the first 15 mins of the game, its mid lane's show. They are the big guns in team fights and skirmishes, not the ADC.

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