Reduce the movespeed bonus from Night Hunter

Enosetc··3 votes·283 views

Yes, I'm suggesting a Vayne nerf. Hear me out for a second?


So, people are starting to acknowledge that Vayne has become a problem. Many people attribute this to the "tank meta", but I feel as though this is only part of the problem.

When we hear complaints about Vayne, most of them are associated with the %max hp true damage from her Silver Bolts (W). Personally, I think this should have never existed, but this passive ability only augments what I believe is the real problem: Night Hunter.

Vayne is identified by her ability to assassinate single targets extremely quickly. She has always done that extremely well and I think that Night Hunter is what allows her to do this so effectively. For those of you unfamiliar with the exact numbers, here is the tooltip for Vayne's passive:

Vayne gains 30 flat movement speed when moving towards a visible enemy champion. This is boosted to 90 flat movement speed when Vayne's ultimate ability -- Final Hour -- is active.

So why do I think this is problematic? Well, let's take a look at a few items that have been either changed or introduced to the League:

item 3153 This item is Vayne's bread and butter because of its passive and active abilities. It has also received significant buffs that have consequentially made Vayne stronger. item 3069 This item was already a significant item for supports because it gave them every stat they would need to be the "Batman's Belt" their team needs to turn teamfights in their favor. This item was also recently buffed into a more favorable state. item 3800 Oh lord, this item. It needs no description.

If you haven't found a pattern yet, these items all have active abilities that grant movement speed. These items are also ridiculously common and it isn't unlikely that you're seeing at least one of these items built in every game. All of these items give Vayne even more tools to stick to a target or peel herself off of a threat. But here's the thing, though:

She already had enough to begin with.

Vayne is one of the few ADCs in the game that can eliminate unfavorable situations for herself through the use of Tumble (Q) and Condemn (E). We saw a similar scenario with Tristana in season 4 where she was extremely safe and had two ways to peel herself off of people who wanted to get in her face. While Vayne doesn't have resets, she does have the ability to reposition herself every two seconds with a rank 5 tumble and can push divers away with condemn. Aside from this, because a lot of the items that give critical strike and attack speed -- which is what Vayne is encouraged to build -- also give movespeed. Vayne will likely be outrunning every enemy with Night Hunter active before we even consider the tripled effect from the ult. There are very few ADCs that could even rival Vayne's kiting ability to begin with. With tanks back in season, it's now much harder to get to Vayne when she's safely behind a 5k hp wall of meat or two.

In conclusion, I believe the shifts in the meta along with the item changes I described are creating situations where it's extremely hard to exploit the weaknesses in Vayne's kit. I feel that these items are healthy for the game overall and don't need any changes beyond the ones they've received (like the much-needed nerf to Righteous Glory). With these indirect buffs to Vayne, something has to be toned down so that she's less problematic.

TL;DR: Vayne's too speedy.

5 Comments

FantasySniper1 votes

{quoted}

Vayne will likely be outrunning every enemy with Night Hunter active before we even consider the tripled effect from the ult. There are very few ADCs that could even rival Vayne's kiting ability to begin with.

That's not how Night Hunter works. Vayne's kiting capability is purely in her Tumble and damage output.

Also, Vayne's Tumble is a reset.

Enosetc1 votes

{quoted}

That's not how Night Hunter works. Vayne's kiting capability is purely in her Tumble and damage output.

Also, Vayne's Tumble is a reset.

first, i don't mean an autoattack animation reset - i mean resets like tristana's rocket jump

secondly, i wasn't just referring to her kiting when i was talking about her outrunning enemies. i was talking about her chasing enemies (which i should have clarified)

FantasySniper1 votes

Vayne has to be in 550 to do literally anything. Even with Tumble, Night Hunter, etc, she must be put within that range to fight. This is her major weakness that keeps her in check because she will always have to put herself at risk, especially since she has to stay in that range to keep the damage potential open.

Her only overpowering strength is her relative difficulty in being shut-down. Of which, nerfing her passive won't really fix.

Enosetc1 votes

{quoted}

Vayne has to be in 550 to do literally anything. Even with Tumble, Night Hunter, etc, she must be put within that range to fight. This is her major weakness that keeps her in check because she will always have to put herself at risk, especially since she has to stay in that range to keep the damage potential open.

Her only overpowering strength is her relative difficulty in being shut-down. Of which, nerfing her passive won't really fix.

i understand the weaknesses vayne has in regards to all of her skills being the same range as her autoattack. i've defended her state in the game in the past and she's actually one of my favorite champions (i got my first and only penta with her)

i agree that she's relatively difficult to shut down, but how do you think this should be addressed, if not by nerfing her passive?

FantasySniper1 votes

The stealth on her Ultimate Tumble could be reduced to simply match the time of the roll. (Say ≈0.75 secs) The main reason why she feels so safe is because of that stealth letting her drop off the map for a whole second and gain even more distance after the Tumble.

Also reducing the Bonus AD ratio (40-45% instead) on her Condemn would help, because that thing already does insane damage before being given the ratio.

Beyond a kit overhaul where the % HP is reduced with follow-up compensations around her kit, those are the best options.

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