@Statikk Are you okay with the state of Support Lulu?

GuiltyGecko·Oct 8, 2014·8 votes·780 views

Hi Statikk, or everyone else that reads this. 6 months ago, I made this thread. Not to throw your words back in your face, but you said:

I will say, if we do make changes again to address her power level in Mid Lane, we will most definitely have to compensate her in Bot Lane.

Well since then, Lulu has had more nerfs, and no compensation buffs for her support role. All she has done is get weaker as support, and move to top lane. I will agree that she isn't "unplayable" in her current state, but she has fallen SO far as support from where she once stood, that she doesn't really feel the same anymore. Lulu used to be my go-to support, but she just isn't as effective as she used to be. Is there anyway we could get a discussion going on this topic?

4 Comments

AcolarhOct 8, 20141 votes

Yea I agree with you and wish they'd do something to help her out. Some of her abilities will probably have to be changed first so she can't go top lane as effectively for her to be taken as support again. I do wish they'd do that though, I miss playing her as support also.

YGW CaspieOct 8, 20141 votes

Lulu discussion? I'm always down for that.

I think a lot of their decisions regarding Lulu weren't necessarily bad and the last nerf was 4.13 which was a few patches ago. I think removing utility scaling is a good thing but that's because I think utility scaling is a failure in general and should have never been implemented in the first place. I do however think the change they did to her E reveal going from 6 seconds to 4 seconds was a bad decision. I understand that her ability to double Q made laning against her problematic but removing that combo almost entirely was a bad decision. I think a better option would've been to increase the cooldown of Q by 2 seconds but keep the E reveal at 6 seconds. In other words remove the option to double Q at lower levels of CDR but keep it possible in the later game with higher levels of CDR. For comparison I'll do some math:

#Current Q = 7 seconds E reveal = 4 seconds

To double Q you need about half a second to aim Q's after you E so about 1 second total. So in order for that to happen you need to get your Q to a 3 second cooldown but you can only get it down to 4.2 seconds with 40% CDR which means the only possible way you can double Q is if you lead with Q, wait 1.5 seconds, E and then in the last .3 seconds of E you Q again and that is only possible at 40% CDR with extremely good reflexes.

#Proposed Q = 9 seconds E reveal = 6 seconds

Same prerequisites as above (1 second of aiming time). At 40% CDR you would have a 5.4 second cooldown on Q but with a 6 second reveal it means you can E - Q - Q with .3 seconds to aim each Q and if you Q - 1 second pause - E - Q then you would have 1.6 seconds to aim your second Q. You can also do a Q - pause - E - Q at about 20% CDR but higher levels of CDR give you more breathing room to aim the 2nd Q.

Now this is just my opinion on what should've happened instead but it is debatable and I would love to have that discussion but I personally love the double Q combo, so when it was practically removed I was a little sad inside. Now as it stands what does Lulu need compensation in? I think her base mana regen needs to be buffed to start and I also think having her E snap to targets after they use a blink would be a nice little buff because currently if they blink or move really fast it takes a decent amount of time before pix catches up to them especially if they go over terrain since pix paths around.

I've also heard a lot of great suggestions on how to rework her E but since there isn't any real plans on reworking Lulu even just for one ability I think that discussion could be held for another time.

EDIT: Another alternative could be to have her E reveal scale with levels for example: 4/4.5/5/5.5/6 This means she would need levels in E to double Q but it would be a rather weak Q so it really wouldn't be that effective until you have levels of Q and E.

FiorinolOct 8, 20141 votes

Lulu main here. Most played champion.

I've stopped playing Lulu, she doesn't feel good to play with anymore. Her mana costs are steep, her E damage/reveal nerf as well as her Whimsy allied duration nerf hurt her a lot, there was also a nerf on her Q's slow decay.

She hasn't been compensated in any way bot lane for those nerfs; the mana costs of her spells are still the same but give you less. I just feel like I can outpoke her with Nami who has sustain and an actual disable.

The only reason I would play Lulu right now is if I'm playing against Thresh and Morgana is banned, since Whimsy will keep Thresh from pulling in from a hook.

GhiefelsteinOct 9, 20141 votes

Things I miss about support Lulu:

Different skill orders. I used to adapt my skill order to the situation. Max E for the shield in a difficult lane, or keep W as a one point wonder if I primarily used it for the speed boost. Now I find myself blindly maxing Q>W>E. If any champion should be about adapting to different situations, it is Lulu with her offensive/defensive skills.
Making a decision which E to use. With the 6 sec reveal duration and the option for a double glitterlance it was a meaningful choice which E to use. Now I use defensive E without thinking in almost all cases.
Feeling like I make an impact. Lulu has been balanced for her solo lane, and a solo laner gets more gold, more xp and more freedom in build, runes and masteries. That makes it really hard for me to keep appreciating support Lulu. In terms of game balance she is far from unplayable, but she no longer feels like a satisfying pick.

If anything, I hope Riot expresses a vision for support Lulu. They made a bold decision to keep solo Lulu, which caused some problems. After 6 months they should at least follow up with some form of communication. There was plenty of time to answer the most important question: What would the ideal Lulu look like? I believe support Lulu is further from that ideal state than ever. I would love to hear Riot's thoughts on the subject.