Boards›Gameplay

Leblanc is more oppressive and more Clunky

superfire444··5 votes·1,886 views

I am a leblanc main. I do admit her pre-rework state was toxic. She only need a tiny bit to snowball out of control and one shot everyone. The counterplay being "I hope she can't farm and doesn't somehow get a kill" wasn't a healthy play pattern.

However I do think that her rework failed to do something about her frustrations. She's very clunky and even more oppressive now. Her W now has a 0,25s CD which could be the difference between life and death. Her burst is delayed by 1,5s which means you can't successfully assassinate someone once people group up and she has a 5s cd on her passive. All of these factors made her from a high-speed assassin into a medium-speed burst-mage with mobility and safety.

The oppressive part is her passive. It does waaaaaaay too much damage and is basically her main damage thing. She needs to apply her passive by using one ability and proc it with another after 1,5s. To not be really bad her numbers needed to be super high. In lane she's extremely oppressive since her passive can actually be procced in lane, and when it does you're near death. Basically her burst takes longer but it takes less skills (from W-Q-R-E to simply E or Q-1,5s-W). This leaves even less counterplay because once you're procced by her you're zoned or you're going to be (near) death. She basically feels artificially strong because her numbers are high to compensate for a bad kit.

Also her R-R should have a separate CD. Once her R is on CD you can't use R-R even though it's ready to be used.

I suggest lowering her passive CD to 0,75s and lower her damage to compensate. This should give her more procs and a faster gameplay.

24 Comments

ChaddyFantome2 votes

play a few games and get used to her new combos and trust me you will see she is just as capable of what she did before if not better. Take my word for it. it will take a while, but you will get used to it and you will feel the power of new LB.

I recommend rushing DCAP now. She scales harder with AP than MR reduction now.

superfire4442 votes

The point of my post was that her kit is pretty terrible but her damage is so high that she's strong. She's more oppressive because her damage is simply "unfair". Once she procs her passive you're done for.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

The point of my post was that her kit is pretty terrible but her damage is so high that she's strong. She's more oppressive because her damage is simply "unfair". Once she procs her passive you're done for.

And if she doesn't, you are home free.

The point of the update was to allow assassins to be strong and safe without making them unfair by giving them counterplay.

Riot has done this with assassins by applying what I have dubbed "the Zed effect"

In essence, her passive mark is like her "Zed ulti" , if she gets it, she likely got u, if she doesn't, you are safe for a good margin of time before she can go again.

Talon has a similar effect with his Bleed now. If you don't let Talon get 3 hits of spells on you, you are safe. But even if he does, as long as you don't let him pop it with an auto attack, you are also safe.

Even if we were to say Leblanc is currently overtuned, these changes make it so that it is far more possible to balance her without making her outright weak or gutting her.

superfire4441 votes

Except Zed actually has kill pressure in the sense that if he hits his Q and E you're probably dead (and the counterplay is to dodge/flash)

Leblanc goes in and has to wait 1,5s before she has a chance to deal any significant damage. She's useless in teamfights and lategame ADC's will 3-hit her before she has a chance to proc her passive.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Except Zed actually has kill pressure in the sense that if he hits his Q and E you're probably dead (and the counterplay is to dodge/flash)

Leblanc goes in and has to wait 1,5s before she has a chance to deal any significant damage.

I fail to see how this is any different from Zed in this scenario.

She's useless in teamfights and lategame ADC's will 3-hit her before she has a chance to proc her passive.

I disagree. Especially on that last part, especially since we are talkign about Leblanc here. Even if we were to take your assertion as a given, Leblanc has the benefit of being able to play as a straight mage mid to late game as well, and she doesn't even have to alter her build to do so.

And her passive only helps her do that even more now.

Last Survivor641 votes

It's far different. Yea the mark did kill people a lot but come on. First many times as Zed the third shadow was the reason I would ult and they'd die b4 the mark proc'd. And second, you can w r w as Zed and use ur shadow to deal damage from a safe distance and have the mark kill them. You can't proc lb's passive as easily. Although I must say that lb is in a far bttr spot than Zed atm since they wanted to gut him.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Last Survivor64,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVBWaps6,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T02:12:35.471+0000)

It's far different. Yea the mark did kill people a lot but come on.

You aren't presenting much of an argument here.

First many times as Zed the third shadow was the reason I would ult and they'd die b4 the mark proc'd.

And likewise, if you are fed enough as leblanc, you can kill someone with just a full rotation. Or even better, less than a full rotation.

And second, you can w r w as Zed and use ur shadow to deal damage from a safe distance and have the mark kill them.

Doing so isn't as reliable or effective because it limits your options of even getting to your target to R, as well as your ability to get your passive and E damage off on the target.

it also makes it much easier to telegraph the doge pattern and your melee presences isn't there to pressure the target.

Lastly and most importantly, Leblancs Mark has a much shorter CD than Zed's Ultimate.

She doesn't need to be able to do what Zed does, because she ultimately ISN'T ZED, even if the philosophy itself is exactly the same here.

Leblanc also has the freedom of jumping and porting back twice while still moving the entire time for much longer and more frequently than Zed does, btu I digress.

This little tidbit isn't really describing how it isn't the same principle, as much as telling me Zed and Leblanc aren't the same champion, in which i have to retort with : "no duh".

You can't proc lb's passive as easily.

You can proc it even easier. All you have to do is Wait 1 second and then click Q on someone.

Although I must say that lb is in a far bttr spot than Zed atm since they wanted to gut him.

Zed I wouldn't say they wanna gut him. What they wanna do it make him more specialized. The issue with Zed and leblanc before is that they were frankly just better than every other assassin in the game.

They were jack of all trades that just did everything very effectively and more efficiently with less risk than the others.

What Riot is doing is skewing his power from certain aspects and pumping them into others, so u have more of a reason to choose certain assassins in certain situations over others as opposed to Zed just being a better Talon.

Last Survivor641 votes

They gutted him. He was already not used in high elo and now he's weaker. He's forced to ult the ad all the time to stay relevant. Late game he needs to kill someone that has roughly 410 ad to make his ult better than his maxed w. Now a few stages of the game he might be better with this ult. Don't feel like doing the math.

Next her early is extremely broken and at this point of the game proc'ing her passive is. But late game she cannot go in for any assassination because of her passive.

A lb would need to be extremely fed now to not have to proc her passive for the kill. Her passive out damages her other spells by a lot. It even out classes her ulted q and w late game. Her kit now is to kill people popping her passive with another spell.

The cd on her w and e late game are very short so she can keep the frontline chained up now. That's prob how she will have to play late game now. No way she should be able to jump in a fight and not get punished. W dash isn't the fastest and that slight delay on returning both allow her to be caught up in cc and killed.

And proc'ings zed's ult is super easy... You press r... That's it.. Marks on the person... Therefore... Easier than leblanc. May not do much damage then. He can also burst someone in less than a sec and be out while she has to wait at least 1.5 secs to do her dmg. Not that it's a bad thing for her, but that makes them be different. He can r and instantly burst and run. Or r w full combo and kill a squishy. (Not easy but skilled players can definitely make it work. Yes like lb to do do MAX dmg it would be best for him to r and stick to target for aa's n spells but he can do his burst far quicker and allows him a different style of playing than her. (Right now I'd say she's a frontline attacker and he's a backline attacker for the most part.)

All the changes they had done to Talon sorta did that. Him being safer is the main reason why zed was more valued. Talon always had higher aoe burst which would make him better in teamfights (if he didn't fall behind.)

Catastrop1 votes

Personally I like to rush Ludens. E basically becomes a 2.1 AP ratio spell with the second proc.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Personally I like to rush Ludens. E basically becomes a 2.1 AP ratio spell with the second proc.

I did that before but I find you rely too much on it's damage to do your job and finishing targets becomes very close to the wire. Deathcap has giving me far more consistent results.

Catastrop2 votes

That's understandable, I've had to snap back in shame a few times because I missed the chain entirely. It's pretty satisfying to watch though someone explode from one spell though, I'm like discount Veigar.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

I think the new LeBlanc is going to prove impossible to balance. Her skill floor is now insanely high which will probably make her more or less dumpster trash in low elo. In high elo she will likely end up being either really strong or really weak. Her damage is really high right now, but as you mentioned she is very clunky. Making her kit clunky is not a proper way of balancing a champion and it won't work for long. Once people get her kit down she will be a very toxic champion yet again.

BakedLotion1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Penguin Eclipse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVBWaps6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-14T22:49:04.523+0000)

I think the new LeBlanc is going to prove impossible to balance. Her skill floor is now insanely high which will probably make her more or less dumpster trash in low elo. In high elo she will likely end up being either really strong or really weak. Her damage is really high right now, but as you mentioned she is very clunky. Making her kit clunky is not a proper way of balancing a champion and it won't work for long. Once people get her kit down she will be a very toxic champion yet again.

Her skill floor stayed the same. She's not hard.

As for the OP, clunky, yes. Oppressive? Nah. She's useless in teamfights and her damage is extremely predictable

dakota saturn2 votes

{quoted}

Her skill floor stayed the same. She's not hard.

As for the OP, clunky, yes. Oppressive? Nah. She's useless in teamfights and her damage is extremely predictable

You say she's not hard to play, yet you struggle to play her in teamfights. Hmmm...

BakedLotion1 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVBWaps6,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-11-14T22:53:52.641+0000)

You say she's not hard to play, yet you struggle to play her in teamfights. Hmmm...

She's useless in teamfights because that's how she's designed wtf LOL. "Tryndamere/shaco is useless in teamfights" Oh boy it must be my fault that the champion is designed to splitpush and falls off hard

dakota saturn1 votes

{quoted}

She's useless in teamfights because that's how she's designed wtf LOL. "Tryndamere/shaco is useless in teamfights" Oh boy it must be my fault that the champion is designed to splitpush and falls off hard

No she isn't - OLD lb was pretty useless in teamfights. If she couldn't oneshot the carry, why would anyone pick her over Annie/Syndra/Viktor who can oneshot the entire team?

It was incredibly difficult to play her end game before rework because all their supp or tank had to do was disable you during your dash and you were done. You were basically required to land W or E on the enemy carry to do any meaningful dmg, which was just impossible once they grouped. I have 1m mastery points on LB and mained her for 3 seasons. The best teamfight utility she had was having Malph/Amu ult and then W R'ing on top of everyone and QE'ing someone if possible.

Now, she can RW - W (hit enemy team) - snap back to RW while passive cooks, snap to W when ready, then Q for giant AOE. Add any stun/disable for maximum effect.

Her Q ... RQ combo is also way better then QR.

You just need more practice on her.

Last Survivor641 votes

No one seems to really understand her yet. I do feel like she is clunky now and I hate it. But in teamfights she won't want to w in unless they are cc'd. Her dash time is fairly slow and with that slight delay it has on the return will mean death for her b4 she q's. I think her e has a shorter cd now and her passive damage is ridiculous. She pretty much just wants to hang back e'ing people to death using q's whenever it's off cd and w's to reposition or finish a kill.

BakedLotion1 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVBWaps6,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T00:02:35.700+0000)

No she isn't - OLD lb was pretty useless in teamfights. If she couldn't oneshot the carry, why would anyone pick her over Annie/Syndra/Viktor who can oneshot the entire team?

It was incredibly difficult to play her end game before rework because all their supp or tank had to do was disable you during your dash and you were done. You were basically required to land W or E on the enemy carry to do any meaningful dmg, which was just impossible once they grouped. I have 1m mastery points on LB and mained her for 3 seasons. The best teamfight utility she had was having Malph/Amu ult and then W R'ing on top of everyone and QE'ing someone if possible.

Now, she can RW - W (hit enemy team) - snap back to RW while passive cooks, snap to W when ready, then Q for giant AOE. Add any stun/disable for maximum effect.

Her Q ... RQ combo is also way better then QR.

You just need more practice on her.

Her old Q R was instant and had similar if not higher damage than the current one. And I'm doing fine with leblanc. I haven't lost a game with her since her rework. She's still terrible in teamfights regardless. 1.5 seconds is asking a lot for a squishy assassin that needs to jump on top of people

Also, if your opponents are letting u RW W into them without u instantly getting cced, I don't know what to tell you lol. And in what universe do people clump up enough for you to hit multiple people with a W lol

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

Her skill floor stayed the same. She's not hard.

As for the OP, clunky, yes. Oppressive? Nah. She's useless in teamfights and her damage is extremely predictable

You're kidding right? She has by far one of the highest skill floors now. She has multiple timers to watch now, including 2 ult timers.

BakedLotion2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Penguin Eclipse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVBWaps6,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-11-14T22:54:05.247+0000)

You're kidding right? She has by far one of the highest skill floors now. She has multiple timers to watch now, including 2 ult timers.

Multiple timers? Waiting 1.5 seconds isn't hard. Her ult clone is just a gimmick it doesn't make it harder to play her. You can go a whole game without using it and you won't see a difference Ever since my first game with her, I've never said to myself "wow this champion is harder than before!" and I've won/got fed in every single SR game.

It's probably because you've never played her before. Anyone who had a decent knowledge on her doesn't find her hard. In fact, the only assassin I find hard is Talon, but that's because I never play him. Kat is still easy to me. And so is Leblanc.

Last Survivor641 votes

I really don't think her skillcap is any higher but just her style of play as changed.

dakota saturn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Penguin Eclipse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVBWaps6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-14T22:49:04.523+0000)

I think the new LeBlanc is going to prove impossible to balance. Her skill floor is now insanely high which will probably make her more or less dumpster trash in low elo. In high elo she will likely end up being either really strong or really weak. Her damage is really high right now, but as you mentioned she is very clunky. Making her kit clunky is not a proper way of balancing a champion and it won't work for long. Once people get her kit down she will be a very toxic champion yet again.

Her kit isn't clunky when you get practice with it.

I still mess up after like 30-40 games with W RW and returning to the correct pad. But a lot of the other issues I had with it aren't a big deal.

The delay added to W is NOTHING compared to the removal of silence, and LB was fine after that too.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVBWaps6,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-11-14T22:53:21.612+0000)

Her kit isn't clunky when you get practice with it.

I still mess up after like 30-40 games with W RW and returning to the correct pad. But a lot of the other issues I had with it aren't a big deal.

The delay added to W is NOTHING compared to the removal of silence, and LB was fine after that too.

After enough games you can get her kit down I'm sure. But her kit is still very quirky.

Last Survivor641 votes

I think it's very quirky too. And for the other guy, losing the silence wasn't a major issue for her. It just allowed people like Ahri or kat to have a little chance of surviving you. That silence gave us lb mains too much power.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by superfire444

Can we please make Annie throw her bear instead of insta-spawning it
Gameplay199 comments
193
votes
Is it me or is it lately pretty easy to get frustrated with league?
Gameplay75 comments
81
votes
I don't think assassins were handled right
Gameplay134 comments
49
votes
League of legends isn't a game of skill anymore
Gameplay19 comments
17
votes
Since Riot is big about rework low counterplay (assassins?) kits why not take another look at mages?
Gameplay38 comments
13
votes
Matchmaking is broken
Gameplay10 comments
11
votes