How to fix last whisper and void staff elegantly for non-ADCs

PentaJump··5 votes·761 views

Make percentage penetration apply after flat penetration. In season 3, the way the math works was changed to the way it is now, which promotes building percent penetration against people with low resistances. At the time, the public figured who were into math (think Cloth5 style websites) were freaking out about how this would break the game.

Let's compare using the two separate systems. How it is now, void staff+ sorc boots vs 45 mr: (45 x .65) - (15) = 14.25 remaining mr How it is now, void staff + sorc shoes vs 200 mr: (200 x .65) - (15) = 115 remaining mr

How it was, void staff + sorc sneakers vs 45 mr: (45 - 15) x (.65) = 19.5 remaining mr How it was, void staff + sorc footgear vs 200 mr: (200 - 15) x (.65) = 120.25 remaining mr

With the new system, building void staff with sorc flip-flops will result in a squishy target having 27% less mr than it did with the old system. With the new system, buulding void staff with sorc slippers will result in a tanky target having 4.3% less mr than it did with the old system.

Conclusion: the old system of calculation better matches the expectation that percent penetration is a good purchase against tanky targets, and a bad purchase against squishy targets.

Note: this will affect ADCs very little, as most of them do not build any flat penetration.

5 Comments

Pikmints2 votes

I think that with how fast tanks are melted right now, those number changes wouldn't be enough to feel satisfying for tanks. I'm a subscriber of the idea where reducing the raw damage of Last Whisper and Void Staff would make those items more situational purchases.

Right now, people buy items like those because they give useful stats regardless, even if the enemy team's tankiest person isn't that tanky. I feel that these items should be specifically defense penetrating items, not standard purchase against all foes. If the raw stats (AD and AP) were reduced on those items, it would then actually give players a choice, "Would I rather be able to penetrate their defenses, or buy an item that gives more raw damage?" If the enemy team has very little armor, this makes buying Last Whisper a mistake and the same for Void Staff.

The tank the only one with armor? I should probably not get LW but rather get something like BT and simply not focus the tank in teamfights. Tank lives longer while people are less likely to buy the item in the first place.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

Even if that works, it's just not satisfying to use. Seeing it say "applies before Apen" feels satisfying because it implies you're getting the most out of it.

Better to just make it %Bonus Armor or something.

GuiltyGecko1 votes

This basically. It feels bad to have it apply before. That's one of the reasons it was changed in the first place.

Dreampod1 votes

The real issue IMO opinion is that it felt unintuitive and disappointing to have it apply first because most people didn't actually understand the math involved and just knew that 'it was bad' and felt they lost value for their flat pen. However the change makes it actively harmful for the balance of the game and the item serve the opposite purpose of what it should. As it exists right now the item, frankly, ought to just be removed from the game because it isn't a tank buster but a 4th multiplicative stat for AD carries - thankfully most players (still) don't know how to itemize correctly or are just copying the experts.

Cindikle1 votes

I don't think changing the penetration system is what is needed.

What we need are itemization options.

Why not an item that gives a % reduced damage vs activated abilities(meaning Fizz's W passive wont be reduced, but the active damage will)? You can't penetrate this reduction. But you are spending gold on specializing this in place of more general defense vs on hit effects or item actives.

Right now the system works on only MR or Armor reducing damage taken outside of Ninja Tabi. Thus the counters to both of those are going to be strong. We need other options. But it can't just be "armor type 2" or something.

Or say the enemy team doesn't have a lot of AD damage from abilities. You can buy an item that increase the effectiveness of your armor vs auto attacks by 10%, but reduces it from other sources by 10%. It's not a huge increase. But it's an option.

More from Gameplay

More by PentaJump