ADC mains be like

PentaJump·Jan 24, 2015·59 votes·4,379 views

"Sona does way too much damage with an auto attack!"

49 Comments

JJ H0GJan 25, 20158 votes

Pretty sure the only ADC that can do that much damage at low levels with an auto is Draven. Other adcs can't really trade 1 AA for 1 AA with her. Imo she does need buffs in her other departments, though.

DirewolfiezJan 25, 201522 votes

SHE WAS DESIGNED TO POKE EARLY. That is literally what she did best before the rework. Not every champ needs to have a mid/late game focus, you know.

GamersEyeJan 25, 20155 votes

{quoted}

SHE WAS DESIGNED TO POKE EARLY. That is literally what she did best before the rework. Not every champ needs to have a mid/late game focus, you know.

The funny thing about that is that it is about that in bot lane. The whole point of an ADC is to be weaker early and scale up. Any time something is put into bot lane that is strong early, it is really dangerous because of how it messes with most adc's and how easily it can do things to the enemy team's power curve. I'm not saying its bad for her to be strong early, but as an ADC, something being strong early easily converting into the enemy being strong later as well makes it a difficult game.

DirewolfiezJan 25, 20151 votes

It's kinda stupid that Riot won't let that many champs be strong bot lane aside from Thresh, Leona and the like. Her early strength in poke was balanced by her complete vulnerability pre-6 to ganks of pretty much any kind, as long as the lane was frozen. Apparently only Sona's poke was oppressive, according to the Sona QQ'ers and Riot themselves, but not Lulu's or Janna's.

SaixosJan 25, 20154 votes

Sona's is ontarget, lulu and janna use skillshots which can be dodged, take time to ramp up, or consume a lot of mana. Can't dodge sona's Q :/

DirewolfiezJan 25, 20154 votes

Still, though, that said, a lot of other support champs WITH POKE can be just as oppressive. If Sona is so bad, then why aren't things like Support Annie nerfed into the ground completely?

SaixosJan 25, 20152 votes

Because support annie has lower range, lacks sustain and mobility, and her Q is single target, with her other abilities dodgable. In addition, support annie won't deal Sona-level damage at level 1. Sona's passive basically lets her level 1 poke be just as strong as annie's level 2 poke can be with Q-W.

I'm not saying I agree that Sona should be nerfed the way she is, quite honestly I believe that the fact that she needed to be changed the way she was showed a failure in her rework. But there is some justification for her changes.

WydiwygJan 25, 20152 votes

That's only half true though. Annie's AA range and the range of her Q are 625, which is higher (!) than the AA range of every other champ except Caitlyn. Sona's Q has a range of 850, but in order to hit her power chord, she needs to get in AA range, which is 550, thus quite a bit closer than Annie ever needs to be. Annie's base movement speed (=mobility) is also higher than Sona's (335 vs 325) and with a single rank in her E (which few players ever take before lvl 4 or 5 anyways) Sona will only slightly exceed this value (by 3+7.5% AP, to be precise) and burns quite a bit of mana. Just for clarification. :)

maikokkJan 25, 20151 votes

i take E level 2, and everyone else should too. i only level her heal before level 4 if we lost trades in a huge way, which never happens when you level e

Hinagiku33Jan 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Ejzj3KO,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-25T03:11:01.781+0000)

Sona's is ontarget, lulu and janna use skillshots which can be dodged, take time to ramp up, or consume a lot of mana. Can't dodge sona's Q :/

Considering Sona also can't aim her Q...maybe you can just do what I do and stand near the minions? Sona's basically a caster minion at Lv 1 and even light harass generally scares her away.

maikokkJan 25, 20152 votes

not that im on the "sona OP" bandwagon, but sona not being able to aim her q is irrelevant, especially in a 2v2.

it targets the 2 closest champions in range, if there aren't champions in range it targets minions that are closest to her.

when you are sona, and know your range, you always know what it will hit and what it wont hit before it hits. once it selects a target, you cannot step out of range. thus you literally cannot dodge her q.

also, most of the damage is in the AA after the q.

ErockandrollJan 25, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Ejzj3KO,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-01-25T04:30:17.573+0000)

Considering Sona also can't aim her Q...maybe you can just do what I do and stand near the minions? Sona's basically a caster minion at Lv 1 and even light harass generally scares her away.

um, as someone who plays sona, I would say this is false. Don't forget that her Q prioritizes Champions. A minion wave will not be the best Protection against her. Also Remember that she has sustain. light harass would not scare her that much. And you Probably won't win a poke war.

AudiomancyJan 25, 20157 votes

{quoted}

um, as someone who plays sona, I would say this is false. Don't forget that her Q prioritizes Champions. A minion wave will not be the best Protection against her. Also Remember that she has sustain. light harass would not scare her that much. And you Probably won't win a poke war.

Sona's sustain is pathetic if she is leveling Q. If she's leveling W, her poke will be pathetic. Either way, she can't do it very much or she'll go OOM in no time.

ForgiveColourJan 25, 20159 votes

when there is counterplay to her q then we'll talk

DecaedeusJan 25, 201521 votes

When there's counterplay to autoattacks then we'll talk.

Zach xDJan 25, 201519 votes

{quoted}

When there's counterplay to autoattacks then we'll talk.

item 3082 item 3075 item 3143 item 3110

MEMEME670Jan 25, 20153 votes

So the counterplay to her Q is Spectre's Cowl, OR some other form of sustain.

AudiomancyJan 25, 201520 votes

{quoted}

By that logic, the counterplay to Sona's Q is item 3102 item 3065 item 3156 item 3091 .

Counterplay =/= Items.

KillSwitch427Jan 28, 20152 votes

Champions like Leona and Thresh with hard engage can cc and kill her outright. It's her lack of mobility and health pool that can be counter-played, not one off auto-attacks.

DecaedeusJan 30, 20151 votes

Yeah, I get that. But the above post was talking about how there was no counterplay to Sona because it was a targeted spell. I mentioned, in response, how autoattacks were also targeted. I wasn't saying that Sona's Q or autos were the point you countered around.

DirewolfiezJan 25, 20155 votes

Blame Riot and Fearless for the focus on her Q. All of her old spells were useful, and there wasn't one that was used the most (after laning, anyway), but after the rework, all she has is her Q, really.

What Is SmiteJan 25, 20153 votes

Meet Kog'Maw: The Mouth of the Void

Kog'Maw's W allows him to increase his range while also dealing %hp damage

This example has been approved by Phreak #TonsOfDamage

RisurinJan 25, 20153 votes

as adc main, i miss sona...

xVaseFullofAcidxJan 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

as adc main, i miss sona...

I completely agree with this as an adc main I have never once thought she did too much damage i wish I could go against her and actually say that but now im pretty much look at her as a free kill and it makes me sad. She needs her stats back.

OrangesilkJan 25, 20152 votes

Specially so for Cait or MF mains

manbearswineJan 25, 20152 votes

yes no that's not it.

"sona's winrate is too high-let's reduce it"-riot

that's basically all there was to it,there were no complaints about sona from anyone.

RikariJan 25, 20152 votes

Sona Q+AA+ ADC AA = Half HP

BeersteinJan 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Sona Q+AA+ ADC AA = Half HP

ADC sees sona opponent, puts 0 defense in runes, sorry but ADC deserves to die. What's next, crying about kayles lvl 1 auto attack?

maikokkJan 25, 20151 votes

kayles level 1 E OP

WydiwygJan 25, 20158 votes

Ya, well.. Blitzcrank 's Q+E empowered AA + 2 or 3 ADC AAs while you try to move back to safety again = Easily the same while being perfectly protected by the turret and knocked up for quite some time. Leona 's Q+W+E+AA combo + 2 ADC AAs = Dito (You are stunned and rooted) Morgana 's Q+W+AA + 2 or 3 ADC AAs = Dito (You are stunned) Nami 's Q+W+E + AAs from each enemy = Dito (You are suspended) Lulu 's Q slowly pokes you down instead, and there is little you can do, thanks to her W (Polymorph) which is also a free ADC AA every time.

And then there is the rediscovered trend towards pure mage "supports" such as Annie or Velkoz dealing ridiculous amounts of long range damage.

Sona has an easier time to actually land her skill on you, true. And her damage is also more sudden than that of most other champs. But she makes up for it by extreme squishiness combined with her mediocre AA range, her lack of escapes (or any other safety mechanisms such as stuns or knockbacks) and her high mana usage. If Sona was as oppressive in lane as some people make her out to be, she would be a priority pick/ban, but her actual pick rate (7.98% in ranked, even lower in higher elos) strongly suggest the opposite.

RikariJan 25, 20151 votes

funny how these are 2+ spells and skillshots. Lulu though has high mana costs,basically her only source of damage and is also a skillshot. They are also mostly squishy with no escapes while sona brings a 2 man heal and shield,and a move speed boost. She has an opressive lane,but is insanely useless out of it,if it weren't for her ultimate.

WydiwygJan 25, 20152 votes

Sona effectively needs 3 spells for her power chord for a minimum of 135 mana (3 lvl 1 Qs) over 16 seconds or 190 mana for a W/E/Q rotation with arguably less benefits.

Her shield costs 80 mana for 35 base strength limited to 1.5 seconds and with a pretty terrible AP ratio, which is far less than Lulu's E (80 strength/60 mana/6 seconds), Lux's W (80 strength/60 mana/3 seconds), Thresh's W (60 strength/50 mana/6 seconds) etc. Whether or not her heal (max 45 HP) makes up for it depends on the situation. Her movement speed boost on early levels, however, barely negates her recent nerf (325+13 from her E = 338 vs 335 on many other champs) and is easily beaten by other supports such as Lulu, Blitzcrank and Janna's passive.

It is obviously hard to compare Sona to other supports due to her pretty unique and situational kit and with some decent compensation I would be perfectly fine with making Sona's Q a skillshot. But I really can't understand why she is considered to be oppressive when most other supports can do a lot of the same if not more, given they hit their one relevant skillshot.

RikariJan 26, 20151 votes

shes considered oppressive because she only has one (quite powerful) skillshot. Her Q poke hones into champions and if i remember correctly it resets her auto attack,while her heal helps with her being poked. Less drawbacks than leona while almost as good as annie.

PentaJumpJan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

shes considered oppressive because she only has one (quite powerful) skillshot. Her Q poke hones into champions and if i remember correctly it resets her auto attack,while her heal helps with her being poked. Less drawbacks than leona while almost as good as annie.

I don't know. I've never felt oppressed while laning against Sona. She doesn't poke as hard as Vel'Koz or Zyra, and she doesn't scare me as much as Thresh, Blitz, or Leona. Her sustain doesn't even strike me as being better than the sustain that the targon's item line offers.

Looking at her win rate vs game length graph, it appears that lane phase is when she is weakest. http://champion.gg/champion/Sona

From both the stats as well as personal experience, she just doesn't strike me as oppressive in lane. The champions I mentioned as being oppressive in line all have a win rate that decreases as time goes on, which seem to suggest they are most oppressive in lane phase.

Like, maybe Sona was too strong. But I totally don't believe it's for the reasons they stated.

BallisticMouseJan 25, 20152 votes

"Marksman" mains.

The Red WardenJan 25, 20151 votes

Don't kid yourself, they are called adc mains. The title "marksman" means that they have accuracy, but since they rely on unavoidable autos they can't really say that they rely on accuracy.

The champions that should be labeled as marksmen are the ones who rely on skillshots (Varus, Ezreal, Vel'koz, Xerath, etc.)

missinggraveJan 25, 20153 votes

The title "marksman" was to differentiate between melee and ranged Attack Damage Carries. I could call Master Yi an ADC just as easily as I call Caitlyn an ADC. The only reason we don't use the term "marksman" commonly anymore is due to the popularity of ranged ADCs in bot lane compared to melee carries for obvious reasons.

BallisticMouseJan 26, 20151 votes

Woah man, I was trying to joke about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqakQqxkcME

MeleeNukeJan 25, 20152 votes

Am I the first adc main to not bitch about "op" champs or something?

MiracleSpireJan 25, 20152 votes

Honestly, I play a lot of ADC, and I would rather lane against Sona than most supports. Even pre-rework she was nowhere near the level of Leona, Thresh, Morgana, Annie, Veigar, Zyra, Blitzcrank, Thresh, Support Draven, Thresh, Nami, Darius, and especially THRESH.

Sona may have had low counterplay, but she didn't feel as overbearing as many other low counterplay champions.

Valhalla RisingJan 25, 20151 votes

lol for a champ with that much buff's and heals, it shouldn't be bullying 1v2 like she does.

rework that trick.

BeatzBoyFTWJan 25, 20151 votes

Cause umm, when's the last time you seen Sona go top?

Misaka WORSTJan 25, 20151 votes

Personally, as an ADC main, I complain about anything that gives me a tough time in laning phase. Which is nearly anything that kills me with relative ease (everything).

Hard PenetratorJan 25, 20151 votes

Sona survivability and playmaking options are garbage. The worst part is that in case your adc is out of position you are actually useless for him unless you go out of good position yourself. Why would I like support skills I can't use from afar in really dangerous moments when enemy assassins are lurking around.

InsaneSamuraiJan 25, 20151 votes

I thought ADC mains be like: "I am so godly at this game the only way I ever lose is if it's the sup's fault"

MarthritisJan 25, 20151 votes

i've said that before sadly

ImHerVoiceJan 25, 20151 votes

adc mains be like "i right clicked for 400+ damage with 1 auto 3x in a row and won the teamfight"

Original QuitterJan 26, 20151 votes

The only thing that makes Sona broken is the amount of Mana regen you can get at level 1 with 4 runes and the support masteries.

You should never run out of mana on Sona. I don't know what you people are running on your yellows but 4 flat mana regen give you 2.0 plus the 3 from masteries and then your support item. You have to have a really crappy ADC or be spamming fast as you can press the button to run out of mana on sona. Trading 4 armor or 32 hp for that 2 xtra mana regen is worth it on her and puts her just over the top of having to watch her mana bar.

Maybe in bronze/silver you will go OOM but in higher level play where people don't just stand there and take free harass she has a nearly unending pool of mana.

From what I see people either play her with 9 scaling Mregen yellows and build offensivly maxing Q or build 4 flat MR yellows with some armor or hp and build tanky and max W.