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The state of Tanks, and late game fantasies

Crett··2 votes·507 views

A fundamental issue with late game tanks is that HP and resistances cannot keep up with the hyperscaling advantage AD gets.

Tanks right now get to have 3 multipliers. HP, HP regen, and resistances. Resistances are pretty much nullified by %pen (Frozen Heart gives 59 armor once late game %pen is taken into account), and tanks don't last long enough under fire for HP regen to really come into play, while Cinderhulk gives 25% BONUS health.

ADCs get AD, attack speed, crit chance, crit damage, and armor penetration, all of which are massively overtuned in comparison to tanks (Tanks scale linearly the whole game, while ADCs get to scale exponentially with attacks dealing 250% AD). This is fine, because ADCs are just about your best bet against a tank, and we don't want Season 2 again

But when I'm looking for a durable champion, there just aren't any anymore, all these champions dealing their PRECIOUS damage and hopping around like monkeys (Kalista) which is all they're good for, with way less room for utility and tankiness. It feels like the only reason I'm building tanky is just to survive just long enough to get my CC in, when tanks ideally should have real staying power.

Even Mundo can't really go where he pleases anymore. Sion is my best bet, but even he goes down in 5 seconds when even one assassin is on me.

But another HUGE problem is when tanks are strong, they dominate certain compositions, (Teams without a whole lot of sustained damage, like Ezreal ADC) making the whole thing a difficult mess that leaves me wanting to just play Warcraft 3 and make a map where the game is balanced around strong tanks.

I feel like tanks should be REALLY tanky, but in a way that doesn't dominate the game (late game transitions into a meta where adcs are steamrolled, leaving tanks to slap eachother for the next minute and a half while Trundle laughs). How can we possibly achieve that?

It could be that I'm just frustrated and need to get with the program. In which case maybe I should try making that map. I'd love to get into game design that way.

5 Comments

SoberToaster4 votes

IMO get rid of stupid true damage on characters like vayne. she is cancer

you can blatantly build to counter adc but can't counter her, yea that's DUMB POOPFACE DESIGN

brb warmogs thornmail omen. doesn't matter melted before you can unpin yourself from the wall.

ValyrianBlade3 votes

I think it makes sense that adcs outscale tanks theoretically. Games already last longer than Riot (and presumably most players) would like - you'll get a larger player base if we can achieve more certainty in game time.

I.e. if i know a game will be 30-45 minutes in length, i can play whenever i have 55 minutes available (queue time, champ select). If i know a game will be 20-70 min, i need almost an hour and a half to risk starting a game. Worse yet, when i get that hour and a half i might have a 20 min blowout then be unable to play another because i only have 70 min left and might get a long game...

The reason this is relevant is because tanks prolong games, damage ends games. If your typical late game close teamfight ended up with the winning side's tank and support being the sole survivors, they might take a turret or two. If the adc survives they'll take the base. The comparison broadens even more when you consider each team having survivors.

If tanks kept up with carries late game, games would take too long. They already arguably can take too long.

Not to mention this argument entirely ignores that tanks can and should survive for more than a few seconds late game. Most teams don't target tanks first, and if they do your team should win the fight and game anyways so why complain about it :p. I wonder if you're just engaging too fast/hard before your team can follow up to support you.

Abyssphere3 votes

The problem is that tanks aren't really meant to have a late game fantasy. They are designed to peak in the mid/early late and fall off from there - you can see this in the fact that their items are cheaper than the equivalents for ADCs/APCs - they are meant to hit full build quicker, which makes them very strong in the mid game, but offensive characters outscale them because... they are still building after tanks stop.

Unfortunately tanks getting a comparable late game fantasy to carries would fundamentally change the game and not necessarily in a healthy way. Games need to end and that requires people to die. Tanks are still useful late of course but their role shifts to just engaging and peeling/providing general utility as you can't really get in the ADC's face to the same extent anymore. You just need to expect to die in fights once you reach a certain point, but that should be fine because you don't pick a tank to carry anyway. Their role has always been helping their team, not being the only person alive to push down the base after a fight.

WalkingInACircle1 votes

A fundamental issue with late game tanks is that HP and resistances cannot keep up with the hyperscaling advantage AD gets.

That's not an issue, that's intended.

Crett1 votes

{quoted}

That's not an issue, that's intended.

I know. It's their weakness, that's what I was trying to imply

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