Ardent Censer is finally nerfed

Abibyama·Oct 19, 2017·39 votes·3,226 views

Now supports will rush again

SOOO EXCITING ISN'T IT?

50 Comments

XeroS DongPanOct 19, 20175 votes

well guess what people say support is so boring and lack of attention in the past ..... now people hate support cuz of one support item xD guess people really don't want support to be effective/strong which they protest on ardent censor to be nerf lol guess Support Main will alway be useless in a way due people bash how effective support items it :/ but that what support champions does to help acc/mid by shielding healing or assist yet people want the support player to be invalid or can't help in late game situation zzzzzz .

Darkdemon653Oct 19, 20178 votes

{quoted}

well guess what people say support is so boring and lack of attention in the past ..... now people hate support cuz of one support item xD guess people really don't want support to be effective/strong which they protest on ardent censor to be nerf lol guess Support Main will alway be useless in a way due people bash how effective support items it :/ but that what support champions does to help acc/mid by shielding healing or assist yet people want the support player to be invalid or can't help in late game situation zzzzzz .

One type of support being useful because they can use a single item to give a buff to one type of champion is not the same as supports being strong.

MeritasOct 19, 20171 votes

It is, actually, Ardent Supports became so important for the game's outcome, that ADCs for the first time in history started helping them gain gold. There are many historical cases where certain champions in a role focused on a single aspect of the game and they were the most played picks.

Maybe it doesn't make the role strong in the way you would wish it to be, but it's still objectively strong.

MizayaOct 19, 20172 votes

The less interdependent those two roles are the better, honestly.

NakedGrannyOct 19, 20176 votes

And then there's Crucible over there making the actual clutch plays while being godly for sustain, defense and healers....

ShaydroxOct 19, 20177 votes

Well designed item if you ask me, wish more support items were like that

Rathar DashingOct 20, 20173 votes

I just wish there were more items like that.

As an enchanter I can basically only choose between item 3504 item 3174 item 3222 item 3107

If I want AP, welp, looks like I have to buy Ardent. If I want movespeed, Ardent. If I want to give my ADC more power, Ardent. Meanwhile the other 3 fill both niche roles for supports (damage+healing, cleansing and long range AoE heal), but if you pick the latter two then you're losing on a large portion of their value for 2 minutes at a time.

I think there need to be more options, for instance there could be a cool armor version of a item 3114 item, it would help if you're an enchanter and are losing lane, or are afraid of an AD assassin. Also, each option needs to be equally viable, and not make any type of support overshadow another.

The Yetii RiderOct 20, 20172 votes

Crucible is a good item to have but a poor one to rush. That's the main issue right now, Riot nerfed Redemption to make it a bad first item. They're planning to nerf Ardent to make it a bad first item. Athene's is also an item that scales. I don't know what item they think supports should be building first. Luden's, maybe?

NakedGrannyOct 20, 20171 votes

It's actually the perfect item to rush. You need that cleanse for when teamfights start happening, and in the meantime it gives crucial sustain during late laning.

The MR it gives is great, and that 20% heal bonus is insane.

The Yetii RiderOct 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's actually the perfect item to rush. You need that cleanse for when teamfights start happening, and in the meantime it gives crucial sustain during late laning.

The MR it gives is great, and that 20% heal bonus is insane.

Enchanters have stupidly low base stats and low MS. Ardent gives MS, Redemption gives health. The MR and regeneration just aren't the same for helping to make sure you actually live in team fights.

PaffWasTakenOct 19, 20175 votes

Some people might disagree but... I miss aura effects. They actually had impacts while not being obligated to give godly stats to the items who had them

SweedishGunnerOct 20, 20171 votes

Things like the +10 (originally 15) from Locket wasn't that bad. Everyone was given scaling MR anyway so it's like you've had an old Locket every game now.

Colgate GatorOct 19, 20174 votes

This was never about the item itself, but that it made any Support who couldn't abuse Censer unviable.

Let them build these items once again, at least now you won't be borderline inting if you don't pick a healer/shielder.

MizayaOct 19, 20174 votes

Those items actually require proper timing, or at least some sense of timing, to use, so it's a step forward

FairyfleurOct 19, 20171 votes

But, what about all the complaints when Redemption was rushed and too strong just like Ardent Censer?

My Waifu VanillaOct 19, 20171 votes

The difference is Redemption is not a very good rush item anymore now that they changed how the heal works. You aren't going to get 30-40% health heals off a level 9 Redemption only Soraka anymore.

FairyfleurOct 19, 20172 votes

Since ardent is getting dethroned, most first items for enchanters will just feel bad.

MizayaOct 19, 20171 votes

Well, then it's time to design an item for enchanters that

a. encourages dynamic gameplay, not just plain stat boosting.

b. isn't geared specifically for ADCs, or isn't such a constant stat boost to ADCs to the point where the enchanter is more or less buying into the ADCs power budget.

FairyfleurOct 19, 20172 votes

I agree with B, but why should supports be condemned to actives? Every other type of champion that goes support rushes a stat boosts; why should supports be different?

MizayaOct 19, 20171 votes

what stat boosts do you mean

I personally think actives that require precise timing are just healthier in nature, and riot should go in this direction.

FairyfleurOct 20, 20171 votes

By stat boosts, I meant pure stats and passives. Like item 3165 , item 3071 , or item 3031

MizayaOct 20, 20171 votes

Not too worried about that. Just that certain champs can spam heals which basically makes ardent buff permanent on champs like soraka.

chipndip1Oct 20, 20173 votes

You should probably start with designing enchanter CHAMPIONS that are dynamic in game play before worrying about enchanter ITEMS that are. Itemization reflects its buyers.

Akali is SO HOTOct 20, 20173 votes

Those 2 items are infinitely less irritating to deal with than Ardent

Zed geniusOct 19, 20172 votes

riot will be looking for locket nerfs https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/RWtlGHrp-quick-gameplay-thoughts-october-18

AbibyamaOct 19, 20171 votes

Good stuff

GaliöOct 19, 20172 votes

Im so excited for tanks and redmeption. Woooo

Variks the LoyalOct 19, 20171 votes

Redemption is extremely weak on Tank Supports because they lack sources of Heal and Shield Power.

GaliöOct 19, 20172 votes

Thats not what i meant.

Spank the FoxOct 19, 20172 votes

Dude there was another thread where someone was excited to begin re-building those two items again on every support.

Boards makes no sense. How is being forced to build Redemption every game now different than being forced to build Ardent every game

DoozkuOct 20, 20172 votes

At least Redemption is actually a button you press instead of a brainless stat-stick. Not much better, but more than nothing i guess.

AbibyamaOct 20, 20172 votes

Sense

Boards

Pick one. And that was a low quality shitpost

muted team chatOct 20, 20172 votes

Wow you're a complainer

I mean really, they are always going to be rushing SOMETHING. If it's not an item like that it's sightstone. Will you complain about that?

AbibyamaOct 20, 20171 votes

Vision too op plz nerf sightstone

DurzakaOct 20, 20172 votes

At least Redemption and Locket dont give hyper carry ADCs basically a full item for free.

Time to go back to lane bullies I guess.

chipndip1Oct 20, 20171 votes

So we go back to whole teams having a ton of gold in bonus health per team fight? THAT'S the greater of two evils?

DurzakaOct 20, 20171 votes

I believe the term you meant was lesser of 2 evils, and absolute yes, it is.

Because both sides, and all 10 champions can benefit from bonus health in a team fight. its good power for a support supporting their entire time, whereas Ardent ONLY supported the ADC, and too much support in that.

PePsiLemoNNOct 20, 20172 votes

You sound like you will always find something to cry for. And you will.

YuGiHoOct 20, 20172 votes

what are you trying to say? there arent any other support items for champions like janna or lulu.

WinterwingsOct 19, 20171 votes

Ayyy someone finally understands the situation...

MeritasOct 19, 20171 votes

Why is it that Riot can't balance things right(for the most part)? Why are they simply destroying items/champions because of the community backlash? What's so difficult about bringing the item down bit by bit, lowering its effect values 5%/dmg at a time?

"Maybe they don't want this kind of effect to be a thing in the game at all" - I for one think that such an effect being strong is good. It's just that its competition should be equally good. Playing Leona/Blitz should be equally as competitive as playing Janna/Soraka.

Speaking of equal competition, such a thing is nigh impossible in this game, apparently. Locket becoming the next item rush is only logical. If you delete Locket, Redemption will become 100% mandatory. And if you delete that, something else will follow. And that's only natural, when we can't have equally strong items. And we can't have equally strong items when both buffs and nerfs are over the top - such as is the case with Censer's history.

It's decisions like these that make me happy with my choice to move away from a role that was core for me for a long time. The jungle changes each year may be stupid to some, but I personally find this role giving way to more diversity and to less frustration with the Balance team's decisions.

ErockandrollOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why is it that Riot can't balance things right(for the most part)? Why are they simply destroying items/champions because of the community backlash? What's so difficult about bringing the item down bit by bit, lowering its effect values 5%/dmg at a time?

Part of it is just Imbalance and the meta.

You could keep the classes relatively balanced to each other. But inevitably one class of champ will still be favored by the meta. In that case, your really can't just buff the others until they can compete, if you did they would be powerful enough to dictate the meta. (Where everyone and their mother realizes that they are OP)

Dumpstering Censor is taking the inverse approach, trying to remove enchanters form the meta by targeting their items. (Which I doubt alone will actually accomplish that.) In fact, it could make it worse, when the meta shifts at another date.

The interesting thing about the Redemption/Locket meta however, is that it did not especially favor enchanters in particular. They were picked up for it's active, not because of how the item interacted with the supports kit. So the items ended up being some what agnostic in that regard. Yet people complained that even Thresh/whoever was getting redemption. So riot ended up changing that a bit, by making redemption's active scale with more Healing/shielding power, and make Locket scale with bonus HP. (Favoring them towards specific classes.)

Variks the LoyalOct 19, 20171 votes

At least those are active and require the Support's input, unlike Ardent which automatically activates whenever you do your job anyway.

IcyPepperOct 19, 20171 votes

item 2049

SasogwaOct 19, 20171 votes

Tbh while support is a nice role that deserves respect and everything, they are Also the one class that doesn't soak up much exp (due to being duo lane and roaming) and gold due to not lasthitting. You can't make them too strong without breaking the game.

RookPusherOct 19, 20171 votes

Finally! The oppression of our Support Overlords is over!

XenomancersOct 19, 20171 votes

Never seen an item gutted this hard. Back to playing AP supports and building full damage for me.

FCJAAAAGOOOOOct 19, 20171 votes

Yep. Next up's making both of those items much more expensive, then nerfing every ADC item, and finally buffing every champion in general.

Let's see how far Riot's willing to go, shall we? Hope you get comfy 'cause it's gonna be awhile. The game may die before they make these changes lol.

notice me Sin piOct 20, 20171 votes

i think the nerfs are too harsh, but at least i can now start playing Leona Sion Zyra and to some degree Alistar Thresh without getting flamed in ranked. ~~the number of games i had as Orianna support thruout this season is unbelievable, at 50%+ win rate~~