Akali's shroud is one of the worst abilities ever designed

Fisher No Chains·Aug 12, 2018·87 votes·15,850 views

Along with Yasuo's windwall and Zoe's W.

This ability has LITERALLY zero counterplay, all you can do is wait for Akali to show herself or try to run away. It covers a big ass radius, has its duration EXTENDED every time Akali enters stealth and provides stealth AND untargetability for a very long time if we consider what kind of game League is. And let's not forget that if Akali attacks while into it, after 0.5s she's already stealthed and you have such a little window to counter attack her that it's like there's none.

Really, who the fuck thought that an ability like that was okay for this game, especially on an assassin? Akali is so fucking hard to kill after 6 because she can just press W and hey you can't do shit about her except trying to hit skillshots like you're blind.

Removing its duration extension would be a step in the right direction.

100 Comments

NetorareAug 12, 201855 votes

I remember when pink wards were actually useful and revealed bullshit stealth.

MarothennanAug 12, 201830 votes

Yeah Riot was like "stealth had too much counterplay". So they decided it better have 0.

NaalithAug 13, 20184 votes

I mean, maybe this isn't the right thread to express this opinion but stealth DID have too much counterplay tbh. If there was a 75 gold item that countered any other class people would go berserk, but against assassins it stuck around a long time. You can't design a stealth champion around stealth when it can be completely invalidated by an item that costs virtually nothing that every character has access to. That would be like a 75 gold Poppy shield that covered half the screen and stayed until people put 5 auto attacks onto it, it would invalidate all dash characters and be absolutely obscene. Since everyone had access to it you could call it "balanced" but all it did was invalidate a game mechanic, and not in a cool TF ultimate or Lulu E way that could be a counterplay to put True Sight on someone.

LeetriAug 13, 20187 votes

Say you play ADCs, would you be ok with a 75 gold item that creates a field that makes all enemy basic attacks miss? People would buy it every game against you and plop it down whenever you tried to fight, so your main strength and what your kit is balanced around is gone. Since everyone buys this anti-AA ward Riot has to buff your abilities by a ton since it's expected you can't AA. That means that in low Elo where people don't buy it every game your champion is obscenely powerful since you have both powerful abilities and your basic attacks, while in high Elo you only have your abilities. That's how stealth and pink wards used to work. Stealth champions had to be balanced around not being able to use their stealth, so they'd have to be more powerful than they should since they essentially lacked the vital part of their kit. That meant that when you didn't buy a pink ward you were in for a bad time.

MarothennanAug 13, 20188 votes

Can we not pretend that that's a good analogy?

J EevoAug 13, 20183 votes

They could've made pink wards turn on their reveal invisible passive after a few (let's say 3) seconds to discourage in fight reveals and encourage preemptive warding. Could've made pink wards have normal vision but the reveal range be lower. Could've had made pink wards reveal directional (like vision plant is) so it reveals in the straight direction away from you when you first placed it to encourage smart warding(you have to place it towards where you think the invisible guy is coming from).

But no, let's just make invisibility have no counters at all because why bother balancing things.

Child of the PitAug 13, 20181 votes

What kinda comparison is this... Pink wards haven't been made to specifically unstealth any champions, they have been made to give some sort of vision controll field, what you suggest is basically a ward purely made to counter champions.

J Eevo (EUNE) - about 7 hours ago They could've made pink wards turn on their reveal invisible passive after a few (let's say 3) seconds to discourage in fight reveals and encourage preemptive warding. Could've made pink wards have normal vision but the reveal range be lower. Could've had made pink wards reveal directional (like vision plant is) so it reveals in the straight direction away from you when you first placed it to encourage smart warding(you have to place it towards where you think the invisible guy is coming from).

But no, let's just make invisibility have no counters at all because why bother balancing things.

what Eevo said is a perfect example of the flaw of removing the stealth invisibility totally, it was too oppressive? Fine, the wards purpose was not to reveal champs, so make that extra part a bit weaker, why remove it entirely?

S0kaXAug 12, 201847 votes

Who else but ~~Quagmire~~ CertainlyT could design such bad champions?

SirsirAug 12, 201821 votes

Don't get rid of the duration increase mechanic, reduce its base time and force her to reveal herself more often.

TBH I would be fine with her gaining overall duration if she had to reveal herself more (although i'm probably the minority there). And it lost the turret immunity BS

SwiftKitten88Aug 12, 201814 votes

actauly while i dont think the idea was very good the actaul implementation of it was executed flawlessly

true sight still reveals them,, it just makes it so they cant be dirtectly clicked on..

but even so it wont prevent abilies like lee Q or nid pounce from going in on her

Caitlyn ulti wont drop...

they executed her shroud VERY well.

im not saying the idea of making was good... but i have to give it to the team they executed it with the interaction of other champs.. flawlessly

SirsirAug 12, 20187 votes

If you made her targetable under tower and changed the duration it would be exactly like the old one.

sss1612Aug 12, 20184 votes

I seriously don't even consider true sight a thing anymore because akali's W breaks that rule

DearPearAug 12, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If you made her targetable under tower and changed the duration it would be exactly like the old one.

You also would have to buff the MS bonus, add the MS slow on enemies and add the blink on use. Then it'd be like the old one.

Wild GeeseAug 13, 201811 votes

The ability is incredibly overloaded- Energy return True stealth Duration increase Passive interaction Massive aoe Movespeed boost.

Akali needs less power in this skill and more power elsewhere (e needs an ap ratio for example...).

ModAcademy KaynAug 13, 20185 votes

That's not overloaded. Hell, "Duration increase" and "Passive Interaction" are stretches. If you wanted it to be overloaded, you'd add an Ally MS boost and a slow on enemies. At that point, it'd be doing too much. But as of the moment, it doesn't. It just enables Akali to play with her kit, that's all it does in the long run.

If you want Overloaded, look at Ekko's W ability: It stuns and shields Ekko, slows enemy in the zone, and has a passive that deals %missing health damage (or something). Right there, it can zone, stun, help allies catch up with the slow, and enables Ekko to safely get into a trade.

LimrickAug 13, 20181 votes

Not overloaded? The ability has three main effects: stealth, movespeed increase, and energy restoration. That's already plenty enough for a basic ability. Then on top of that it has: the ability to make it last longer, the ring expands over time, and she can mark it with her E. SIX EFFECTS IN ONE ABILITY. How is that not overloaded?

ModAcademy KaynAug 13, 20182 votes

You can have a complicated ability, and not have it overloaded. An overloaded ability is an ability that does too many jobs. Minor Example, Fiora's Ult. On-top of being a massive damage buff to her through having 4 readily available procs, if you kill the target who hit each one, you get a massive heal.

In this example, the ability is achieving two goals: It's increasing Fiora's damage, and it can heal her team. It has two jobs. Akali's ability, does one thing, and one thing only. It helps herself. It does this through various ways, but it helps her and only her. Her teammates are not beniffited by her using that ability, nor is it going to hamper an enemy into getting caught by teammates, like a slow would. It has a single job.

Once again, look at my example of Ekko's W. It can be utility to a team, ensure a safer trade for himself, or act as zoning. It does a lot of jobs, and that's not even mentioning it's passive.

LimrickAug 14, 20181 votes

So doing two things makes an ability overloaded? Okay, Lux W can shield herself, but it can also shield her allies. WoW, So oVeRlOaDeD. Rakan Q benefits both him and his allies, is that ability overloaded??? "Helping yourself" can be hundreds of different things, but according to you they're all the same. Akali is helped by her W in SIX FUCKING WAYS. Plus you could easily just say that the shroud can zone enemies, boom, now it fits your extremely stupid definition of overloaded.

Overloaded means that the ability just does too much, which I agree Ekko's W is a great example of. It slows, it gives Ekko a shield, and it stuns enemy champs that are in it when Ekko receives the shield. That's still only three things, although those three are very powerful. Akali's W does three main things that are pretty much just as strong as any of the individual parts of Ekko's, and then also has three other niche effects on top of that. Ekko's W is certainly more POWERFUL, but they are both incredibly overloaded.

ModAcademy KaynAug 14, 20182 votes

I said two jobs, not two things. I also said, a Minor Example, since I wanted to get across what "Doing multiple jobs is". Two separate jobs. Your 'examples' of my flawed logic all fit in the same category, since they're meant to be support-like abilities, that are sub-par on their own, but better with teammates by their very nature. They don't do two jobs. They do one.

That is my point. An overloaded ability does multiple jobs, not multiple things. Don't get pedantic with me.

LeBlanc RoseAug 14, 20183 votes

How about we simplify that

Energy Return Location Based True Stealth Movespeed boost.

You can make anything sound overpowered quite easily.

Ahri E

Base Damage Scalings Massive CC Damage Increase Synergises with Q W Better than Stun

LimrickAug 14, 20181 votes

That's not even close to the same thing though. You basically said CC three times. Ahri E does 3 things, damage, charm, and damage amp. Akali's W does 6 things, stealth, energy restoration, movespeed increase, provides a dash, grows bigger, and can be made to last longer.

LeBlanc RoseAug 14, 20181 votes

.... Wheres the dash? The growing bigger is the same as stealth, as is lasting longer.

LimrickAug 14, 20182 votes

She can mark her W with her E to dash to it.

LarrietAug 14, 20181 votes

How does it interact with her passive?

ModAcademy KaynAug 14, 20181 votes

It 'interacts' with her passive, by giving her a way to get out of her Passive's circle, before running back in with the empowered Scythe attack. It's an extreme stretch, since complimenting your playstyle isn't a part of an ability. It's the entire damned kit.

JustMonika13Aug 12, 20188 votes

Learn to skillshots.

Fisher No ChainsAug 12, 201860 votes

Sure, learn to hit skillshots on a stealthed champion with a movspeed buff.

Fermi ParadoxAug 12, 20185 votes

but she doesn't get a movement speed buff anymore in her shroud

Fisher No ChainsAug 12, 201848 votes

While in the smoke, Akali is obscured and has increased movement speed.

I see

Fermi ParadoxAug 12, 20189 votes

mb, I watched professor akali's video about the rework (just rewatched it) and he talked about the lack of movement speed on her w. It seems to be significantly less than before and also doesn't slow the enemy anymore. I thought it got completely removed.

as I said, mb

Slave KnightAug 13, 201813 votes

I mean... if you're watching professor akali of all people, you're in for a bit of misleading monkaS

ValiantKillerAug 13, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slave Knight,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNZWAluG,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-13T02:25:30.349+0000)

I mean... if you're watching professor akali of all people, you're in for a bit of misleading monkaS

Just like nightblue and all that bs youtubers.

Slave KnightAug 13, 20183 votes

Agreed.

BugsLivesMattersAug 13, 20182 votes

{quoted}

mb, I watched professor akali's video about the rework (just rewatched it) and he talked about the lack of movement speed on her w. It seems to be significantly less than before and also doesn't slow the enemy anymore. I thought it got completely removed.

as I said, mb

You know the league boards are toxic af when you get downvoted for making an apology.

JustMonika13Aug 12, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNZWAluG,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-12T17:45:23.921+0000)

Sure, learn to hit skillshots on a stealthed champion with a movspeed buff.

It really isn’t as difficult as you make it sound.

Are you Yenn’s alternate account?

Velzard of KozAug 12, 201819 votes

Looks Match History. Bunch of Zoe and Akali games. Yeah, you have right to use "Are you Yenn’s alternate account?" argument. Le LOL.

WolfeurAug 13, 20181 votes

You can still reveal her with true sight

After3permaAug 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You can still reveal her with true sight

True sight doesn't let you actually land basic attacks on her. It only gives that white shadow thing that disappears.

WolfeurAug 13, 20182 votes

You can't target her, but you know her location, so if you're mostly skillshot reliant you're mostly fine.

CloudedLogicAug 13, 20181 votes

Yeah if. But how many champs are? I see the argument on here quite often about how you can hit her with skill shots/when she goes to attack. Though if you are not a skill shot champion, or you are an AA reliant champion it doesn't feel like a viable argument considering how much of an advantage the shroud gives her, this is especially painful if you are a melee.

WolfeurAug 14, 20181 votes

True, but the point of her shroud is to make her safe. Now, I get that it's frustrating, but the thing is that it's not as broken as people make seem.

CloudedLogicAug 14, 20181 votes

I mean kind of, I wouldn't say it is broken. The fact is you can balance around it, so it isn't inherently broken, but is it fair? That being said balancing around it is all you can really do, because the ability itself is static. It does this. Sure you can change how long it lasts, how high the CD is, etc but without gutting those you can't really tweak those in a noticeable way I feel. I feel it should cost her quite a bit for what it does. How many champs does this one ability just kind of shut down? Like one ability mitigates so much of other peoples damage, and people complain about that on other champs already like damage reduction.

Sure that argument works with other stuff (like how many champs does grounded shut down), but I don't really care for those either, but I think that is more about how they applied it rather than the status in that case anyway.

GodlyBaneAug 13, 20188 votes

#Bring On The Salt

KFCeytronAug 13, 20184 votes

Uh...

[{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNZWAluG,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-12T17:37:58.324+0000)

LITERALLY zero counterplay

except if you...

hit skillshots

So, not LITERALLY zero, then? Contradicting yourself makes the hyperbole a little awkward.

Also, as odd as it sounds, the duration extension is actually a nerf from the old version. She used to get that much out of it by just plopping it down, with no need to play a hide-and-seek minigame. Would it be better if they reverted that and she could just sit there for 8 seconds without revealing herself?

FixHealsRemoveGWAug 13, 20182 votes

Just walking away is also counterplay.

ModAcademy KaynAug 14, 20181 votes

Ironically, sticking to Akali is also counterplay if you think about it. You get Point-black skillshots should she reveal herself (or you're just that close) and she doesn't get her empowered Passive's auto attack.

Akali is SO HOTAug 14, 20181 votes

That takes too much brain power for the average league player

DragonSheaAug 12, 20183 votes

A sad mid laners life: Here is Anivia , she ults Akali in her smoke. Then Akali Throws out her E and murderrapes her. Hell even the logical solution to countering her gives her an advantage as you will have missed out on a cast and she can then jump you.

Nasty bitch.

IfnethAug 13, 20184 votes

{quoted}

A sad mid laners life: Here is , she ults in her smoke. Then Throws out her E and murderrapes her. Hell even the logical solution to countering her gives her an advantage as you will have missed out on a cast and she can then jump you.

Nasty bitch.

Wait, what? There’s no way that Akali should kill Anivia unless she badly misplays. Anivia can ult the shroud and make Akali either back off, take damage, or all-in. If Akali backs off, then she loses minions. If Akali takes too much damage, then she can’t risk an all-in. If Akali goes all-in immediately, then Anivia can just dodge the E skillshot or Q-Q Akali when she dives after it.

And then Akali is just screwed. Anivia can drop her wall to force her ult or, with proper placement and positioning, keep her stuck in the storm while Anivia pelts her with E and basic attacks. And even if Akali somehow manages to outplay all that, Anivia still has her egg and can opt into Stopwatch at 10 minutes.

There’s a reason that Anivia thrives in Assassin metas.

Unlawful SalmonAug 13, 20182 votes

They need to increase the time it takes her to restealth when she reveals herself so you can at least hit her back. You know, counterplay.