The terror of "it's not meta" HAS to stop

JPlayah··137 votes·7,139 views

I understand that there is a meta for a reason. It's nice to have some clarity that certain things will work, and when you expect certain roles to be in certain places, you have a better chance of putting together a decent, balanced team. However, there's a problem when a few limited combinations of champion, role, and position get so cemented that people freak out whenever something different appears; i.e. when someone tries to break the meta and the immediate reaction of their peers is to ASSUME that it won't work just because it's DIFFERENT. That is when we have a problem.

Now the context for this came when I decided to try Ashe mid (I like mid lane because it feels less stressful to me than bot lane), and almost every time I found a match, I would be either immediately kicked or everyone else would panic-leave (if it was team builder), or someone would dodge as soon as I called Ashe mid (in other queues). This makes it pretty clear to me that people are reacting to seeing something new without thinking about it ("Oh I haven't seen that before it's not meta it must not work bye-" dodge).

The few times I did find a team that would take me, I tended to do okay, especially in my more recent matches (9/1/5, 5/1/8, 12/5/3), but that's not the point. The point is that there are unfair standards being placed on things which are not accepted as "meta" compared to those that are accepted. No Ezreal bot lane has to call his scores in chat to avoid being kicked. No one questions a player who picks Darius top. But try bringing an ADC mid and by my count, ~95% of players will refuse to even TRY playing with you.

The problem isn't that there is a set of things which is believed to work. The problem is that everything outside of that set is assumed to not work, including the things people haven't even tried yet.

TL;DR Give people a chance to try new things. Don't be driven by fear.

217 Comments

Lugg59 votes

I have no problem with people trying out new things in normal. I do have a problem with people trying things out in ranked without mastering it in normals first.

Krigjer18 votes

I have no problem with people trying out new things in normal. I do have a problem with people trying things out in ranked without mastering it in normals first.

I'm not sure why you were downvoted. I'm all for breaking the meta. I'm getting sick of 'lol first time Lee Sin' in my ranked games. (You get the idea).

Ariel the Cruel29 votes

Simple answer: Don't play ranked. It's done wonders for not raising my stress levels.

PhoenixOfHeaven12 votes

I gave up on ranked a LONG time ago... Id rather keep my sanity.

sp4418 votes

I only play ranked to get the free skin. I refuse to participate in the dick-measuring contest that is ranked play. Everybody is an elitist snob.

Swift25683 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c7IHvg3Y,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-08-31T08:02:35.069+0000)

Simple answer: Don't play ranked. It's done wonders for not raising my stress levels.

Haven't played ranked since I fell out of silver in season 2. I enjoy the game a lot more these days.

Arbitron1 votes

I couldn't even get through my first ten games of ranked... Like, I played 5 games or so, went "DONE" and never looked back. I have never had so much stress playing a game then when I tried ranked. I don't know how people can deal with it.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

<-- used to play competitive chess.

63536895_DEL3 votes

{quoted}

I have no problem with people trying out new things in normal. I do have a problem with people trying things out in ranked without mastering it in normals first.

You're on like every post I go to lol

Phife2 votes

Like seriously... you might think the idea of an ADC janna is cool but, i dont.

Ariel the Cruel9 votes

ADC Goat is better. Bananas make everything better.

Odesza4 votes

I agree, sometimes, when mastered, out of meta picks can be really strong.

I also understand why many people dodge right away though. Once in ranked, right about the time Runeglaive was released, our first pick locked in mid Quinn with smite to build Runeglaive. I had already used my dodge for the day, but the match went as badly as Quinn with Runeglaive sounds.

MudintheWater29 votes

This. 100%. Today I got a pentakill. I was playing Morgana jungle. Not a tank. Not a devourer. Not "meta" at all. The meta is boring. Some people just want to have fun.

KatCraft8 votes

Most people don't care if you pick none meta champs so long as it makes sense in some way. I've played warwick top a few times and no one cares much unless I feed my arse off.

But if you choose nonsensical shit like Nami jungle and play like ass then you deserve to get called out for it.

Valenten4 votes

Warwick top was a very strong pick either the last season or the one before for a while. I dont remember if he got nerfed or if he just fell out of favor.

FistOfSharkiesha4 votes

He has amazing sustain and fair sustained damage which isn't good in the current meta where most top laners are bursty. He counters people who can't 100-0 him like Cho'gath, Gragas, Malphite, etc because he can heal his hp back so quickly. Against someone like Riven, Fiora, or Tryndamere he can barely scratch them for like 30% health before dying.

Tuss4 votes

Even people who play meta champs who play poorly get chewed out for it. If they were going to have a bad game, it doesn't matter what role or champ they picked, they probably would have done poorly. In fact, Nami being a support wouldn't be the worst feeder, what with her abilities being built to work on less than optimal gold. The enemy snowballing from that feeding is another matter, but then that's just a thing you have to deal with in this game no matter who plays what where.

Atlas Mason18 votes

{quoted}

This. 100%. Today I got a pentakill. I was playing Morgana jungle. Not a tank. Not a devourer. Not "meta" at all. The meta is boring. Some people just want to have fun.

Ok thats great, but any jungler worth their salt is going to notice that and counter jungle you or kill you till you 6 levels behind. Just because something worked once means you should take it to ranked.

Tuss12 votes

If an enemy jungler wants to counterjungle you, it doesn't matter what champ you're playing. If you're low rank, you won't be expecting it and be taken by surprise. If that's the strategy in high rank, you'll know to expect it and know not to take a champ that's bad against it.

Also he never said he was taking it into ranked. Not everybody plays games just to get to Diamond.

Hayaishi218 votes

Why jeopardize my chances of winning because someone wants to be a special snowflake?

Shroom Junkie25 votes

{quoted}

Why jeopardize my chances of winning because someone wants to be a special snowflake?

I once heard somebody say Shaco wasn't meta. I asked them why and they said because it wasn't played in the LCS. No. I don't care what you call me I can play whoever tf I want and just because its not in the LCS does NOT mean it isn't meta.

Maybe if it doesn't make sense, maybe if its better to go something else, but if it works, then it works, don't be a douchebag. Braum jungle? No real ganking potential besides a slow if he can land it(though its awesome if he does), and no real waveclear to clear the jungle. Okay, I get your rage at that. But lets say someone goes Azir jungle and just because its not meta you rage at it. Why? He can gank with his dash, and waveclear with his soldiers. Why not? Just because its not played in the LCS? Wtf?

Hayaishi27 votes

{quoted}

I once heard somebody say Shaco wasn't meta. I asked them why and they said because it wasn't played in the LCS. No. I don't care what you call me I can play whoever tf I want and just because its not in the LCS does NOT mean it isn't meta.

Maybe if it doesn't make sense, maybe if its better to go something else, but if it works, then it works, don't be a douchebag. Braum jungle? No real ganking potential besides a slow if he can land it(though its awesome if he does), and no real waveclear to clear the jungle. Okay, I get your rage at that. But lets say someone goes Azir jungle and just because its not meta you rage at it. Why? He can gank with his dash, and waveclear with his soldiers. Why not? Just because its not played in the LCS? Wtf?

i thought you meant stuff like AP tryn support, or AP Lucian mid.

Soloq has it's own meta which includes almost every champ provided you can play it, so my apologies

pacifishstick11 votes

I have (unfortunately) played Jungle Azir. I do not recommend it for anyone who wants to enjoy their match.

Ariel the Cruel10 votes

Had a jungle Soraka not long ago. The drive-by heals were entertaining. But it just doesn't work like it did before she stated doing banana transfusions.

Valenten9 votes

BRUH before her rework jungle soraka was HILARIOUS because it worked so well.....

NewFoundAbility12 votes

Now the context for this came when I decided to try Ashe mid (I like mid lane because it feels less stressful to me than bot lane)

Mind if I share my opinion on this? Two things stick out to me as to why nobody wants Ashe mid, as it's not a 'Meta' fear. Also your opinion on midlane is wrong for one reason; I might be completely wrong though.

First off, you want to go Ashe mid. That's cool. But the reason nobody wants this is because Mid-Laners are 80% mobility and burst-mages/assassins. Ashe is immobile and the only way you'd win is if they were Melee

The fear itself comes from your team probably thinking you'd have to face any of these champions, you lose because you're too squishy compared to them. But that's my thoughts if I saw Ashe going mid... Annie Katarina Fizz Malzahar Yasuo Zed Xerath Talon Akali Lux Orianna

Secondly, you say Mid-Lane is less stressful than Bot-Lane? ... Want to try top? Top lane can go one of three ways:

  • Being hard zoned because your damage/or/range doesn't compare
  • Both of you are noodle fighting, having to farm and wait on ganks to break the top lane tug-of-war
  • One player is pushing so hard that they can't do anything after they've reached the turret range (because Melee) and when they do, the enemy player farms under turret, and repeat... Until one leaves/or/recalls

The reason I don't like Mid and why it's the most stressful to me, is because has 6 ways to be ganked; that alone makes me grow grey hairs. The champions you have to face in Mid are annoying to me, all of them are too quick and bursty so you always have to be on your guard for them to hit level 6 and 3-shot you... I'm over exaggerating, but I still hate Mid.

Champion Skin4 votes

Also an AD mid laner does kind of put pressure on the top laner or jungler to pick an AP champion also having 2 ADC's probably also means you want more peel and protection compared to usual

IcyPepper3 votes

It is possible, however, to take an APC bot lane if there is an ADC going mid already. No rule against that.

Champion Skin4 votes

That however put pressure on the support/APC on bot lane to actually know how to play with a APC/support Well I guess there is that whole Mordekaiser bot thingy which I haven't really seen much to

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

I've done ADC mid with Azir/support bot. Works better than you might think.

Häßlich2 votes

I've contemplated using APCs for bot lane instead of AD for a few reasons:

  1. ADC are squishy and most of them lack burst or escape
  2. Mages tend to have good wave clear, some kind of CC, and sometimes some form of escape
  3. The main reason bot lane takes a support is to protect the early game vulnerability of ADCs, so an APC/Support lane could probably exploit that weakness. It's the same reason you generally don't take ADCs mid.
  4. AP is much harder to itemize against, defensively, than AD is, so having and AD/Bruiser jungle and AP mages in mid and bot could actually be fairly hard to deal with.
  5. The real reason, you bring an ADC at all is for sustained dps, which comes into fruition late game, and is usually used for taking objectives like Baron, Turrets, and Inhibs. With certain APCs and the correct build, you could probably achieve similar results without one.
Mike170327 votes

I hate metabads, the shit players that rage if you do anything different at all (even item builds). They are always 100% of the time trash players with no ability to make their own choices, and just copy cat what they see the pros do with no understanding of why they do it.

I run off meta all the time. Not really with champs and roles, but for sure with items and summoners.

Right now I run Vayne with BT first and Teleport. Good luck pushing me out of lane. I don't give a shit who thinks it's bad, I win more games than I lose by a healthy margin. I also don't give a shit if it doesn't work in Diamond 15, because guess where I don't play.

Marinaras Trench1 votes

i mean when i see a lucian build last whisper first i don't rage at it but it is suboptimal

Bouncemaster Zac2 votes

{quoted}

i mean when i see a lucian build last whisper first i don't rage at it but it is suboptimal

Although due to Lucian's kit most build paths that at least resemble an adc or even ad caster work on him. Granted, he got gutted hard a while back and just isn't that great right now. I'm just amazed that there are people that rage when you buy Triforce on Luc when it used to be a core item on him because he has mixed scalings and a spammy kit.

As for the topic of off-meta as a whole; yes you can play whatever wherever and however, so long as it actually makes sense and works in some capacity. The thing is (and most likely op's point), a lot more things work than people are willing to believe. I play bruiser Bard jungle with sated devourer and do well consistently. Things work, even when people are convinced they don't.

AirSonance6 votes

Perhaps people are looking for their champions' best interests? Just saying, every time something works outside of their meta role, it gets hammered by nerfs just to keep it from working out of the meta. Not saying you shouldn't test boundaries, but Riot's nerfing champs into oblivion because they work out of their meta role isn't helping anyone.

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

Just go support. Everyone is allowed to go support with impunity. Hell, you can even invalidate almost the entire support roster for months on end before Riot will even begin to suspect something may be off.

Lady Hammerlock3 votes

lissandra support leblanc sup it actually works due to leblanc high numbers she can literally buy frost queen sightstone ludens boots and tank its hilarious that she still can 100-0 a squishy

Count Zubat6 votes

"ADC can't be played mid"

Varus

Lady Hammerlock5 votes

a long time ago people would report you for varus mid and suddenly OMG FAKER TOOK HIME MID OMGGGGG it becomes meta

Orbv3 votes

Faker wasn't the first to use it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvOrpNfnEE8

Also at 2:14, Phreak says it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twiHstUjNkY#t=02m14s

It was never reprehensible. People may have reported it, but it would literally be ignored. Versus when Fiddlesticks was first being used support and actually got people banned.

Lady Hammerlock3 votes

people seem to only trust the LCS players

TurquoiseYoshi7 votes

Well, Varus is honestly just an AD poke mage. His ADC form is really weird to use, but his mid form just makes sense with his kit. Normal marksmen are a lot wonkier to use mid.

PhoenixOfHeaven3 votes

And Koggy, which im seeing surprisingly more often.

Orbv3 votes

I don't understand this, because was shown to be used mid in his champion spotlight....do people just assume all ranged AD are ADC? Reasons why Urgot failed =/

1000angrybees4 votes

forget off meta. People don't even generally like secondary roles being in their lanes. That's just absurd.

Noctius283 votes

one of the most fun games I had was when me and my friends decided to take champs that had 3/4th ad or ap scalling and build them for the 1 in 4 scalling meaning like: AD Malzahar AP Ashe AD Vladimir and so forth It was so fun XD But granted that was a game we were prepared to loose from the start XD

Then another game we took all the line skill shot global ultis we could Ashe Jinx Draven Ezreal

Also incredibly funny to go all mid and shoot everything at the same time

But this was all with friends in an "we don't mind loosing" mentality

You can't expect random people to just accept what (most likely in their experience) looks like a troll

Auz the Ripper2 votes

Try AP pantheon, it's hilarious

Quort3 votes

I had a LeBlanc jungle a few days ago! She was awesome!

I always try to accept most reasonable picks, regardless of the meta. The only thing I generally will not go for are unconventional, poor utility Support picks (generally when someone wants to bring an Assassins like Katarina or Akali to support in bot lane; I've seen it work, but generally it's a very risky choice).

The Ecdysiast3 votes

I don't think there's an issue with trying new things. My friend and I do it all the time.

The issue comes when you try new things, and like my friend, you allow others to also be trying things that don't synergize with your idea at the same time in the same team. Like, he wants to go Yi+Jax bot. Solid plan, since both are strong and easy. It falls apart when he says, "since we're doing something non-meta, we'll accept the Taric top, Thresh mid, and Ahri jungle." I'd be fine with all those... separately, with the other four on the team being proven strong in their roles.

That, or a team that might work well together like an Anivia supporting a Gnar with Vayne top, Jarvan jungling, and Gangplank mid. If there's at least some reasonable argument for the entire team comp, it's fine. But when two people are dorking around, and they let things that clearly have no synergy into the group, it screws everyone.

I'll accept a Vayne top if and only if we have someone who can build structures on the team.

ahferroin73 votes

The funny thing about this is that a while back (sometime around when Morde was originally released), ADC's went mid and APC's went duo bot with a support. There are a lot of things that aren't meta right now that work great: Jinx anywhere but bot lane (yes, she can jg, but it's really hard) Any of Sejuani, Shen, Amumu, Anivia, Yorick, Gragas, or Yorick as support. Pantheon in place of an ADC bot lane. Urgot bot as an ADC. AD Malzahar (this is seriously scary, if you play Malz and haven't tried it, you should). Garen/Shen jg. Zac or Xin top or mid. hundreds more I can't think of right now.

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