New support items are literally institutionalized poverty

JPlayah·11/24/2019, 6:37:25 PM·93 votes·19,234 views

Yes, there are plenty of "new support items suck" threads which all make great points about how supports are screwed as soon as they hit their tier 3 support item (for anyone who isn't aware of the issue, tier 3 support items lose the quest that lets you execute minions or poke enemies for gold, but continue to punish farming). But let's talk about the underlying problem, which comes in three parts.

  1. Supports don't get as much gold as other roles. This started as a matter of circumstance. As other people have pointed out, there are 4 sources of gold on the map (3 lanes and jungle) and 5 players on each team, so either one of those sources needs to be shared, or someone gets left out. As it turns out, people are greedy, so someone has gotten left out, and that person is the support.

  2. Riot has taken this idea that supports don't get as much gold and they've turned it into "Supports shouldn't get as much gold," and they've done this by hard-coding it into the game in the form of the new support items.

  3. The only way to supplement the amount of wards you can place from trinkets/red wards is for someone on the team to take one of these support items, locking themselves into this situation.

So Riot starts by saying to players:

"If you want to ward beyond your trinket and red ward, one of the reliable income streams (farming) is going to be penalized, and we'll give you this other income stream based on this quest instead."

So we've established that there is this person who doesn't get access to minions or monsters anyway (because there aren't enough gold sources on the map for everyone), but you're giving that person an alternate source of gold via this item. Sounds good so far. But then what?

"When you've earned 1000 gold using this item, you lose the alternate income stream we gave you."

[sg-janna]

So we end up with two problems.

  1. The point of support items is to give this person who gets left out of farming another income source, while also deterring people who are already farming from taking these items, but that doesn't work so well when you take away that income source partway through the game.

  2. Why does it have to be this particular player who has to supplement the wards? What if the jungler wants to help ward? They're in a great position to do that with all the roaming they do, right? But no, they have to go through this quest which is designed so that only a duo laner can complete it (unless the jungler ganks a shit ton, but they can't do that anymore, which is a whole different issue).

In conclusion, I suggest the following:

  1. Riot, if you want a gold income item that meets both of your needs, then allow supports to keep getting gold through their quest after tier 3 items. Don't say "You can't keep getting gold this way and you also can't farm minions." Players should get one source of gold or the other. They shouldn't ever lose both.

  2. Give us more options for placing (and maybe clearing) wards. Vision should be a dynamic game with opportunities for everyone to contribute, not a burden heaped on one player in a specific role. You know how there are a ton of different boots? What if there were a ton of different warding items?

And you wonder why so many people hate playing support?? Give them the tools they need to meaningfully contribute to their team, and let them have fun!

71 Comments

Mahoh11/24/2019, 7:12:04 PM51 votes

Riot hates vision. Don't expect them to let a jungler ward too, because it makes it harder for LCS super clips.

TobiaskJ11/25/2019, 1:58:06 AM31 votes

So

In other words, in late game, no matter how active you are as support, you get the same amount of gold as an AFK support sitting in base. (past the 15 min mark) wtf is this?

FURRY V211/25/2019, 7:25:47 AM19 votes

I'm a support main too and I've got a silly idea...

What if, champions with SUPPORT role (in their official roles) and with a support item got unique methods to get gold income FOR fulfilling their support role?

► X amount of gold for every enemy champion being seen by their wards (a short cooldown / champion to avoid gold spam for constantly leaving and re-entering into the vision of the ward.)

► X amount of gold for finding wards with lens

It is always needed till the game ends. Perhaps the gold received could grow with the level of support item..?

Ensign Torpedo11/25/2019, 1:51:08 PM12 votes

I think the supports should get more things in the Inspiration rune tree - special runes that would

  • allow you to place 2 pinks
  • get your wards broader vision (So you could place on ward in the middle of the river and see both river entrances, or make it get broader every 30 seconds ward's not touched - so you can get nearly infinite vision on river if nobody touches your pink for 5 minutes). It could get wider by level, by your vision score, by your KDA, by every minute or whatever
  • allow your wards to see over the walls
  • make your wards invincible for 10 seconds as they get detected
  • make your pink invisible in bush and detectable only by standing still in that bush for 5 seconds
  • make the wards you place reveal anyone who attacks them for 5-15 seconds based on level
  • make your wards' HP pool bigger (Making their hitbox bigger too) by 1-3 based based on level
  • make your pinks actually reveals stealthed units

Idk if that sounds extreme to you, just some random ideas. I think that Inspiration tree should have like 50 runes in it.

Wolfalisk31811/25/2019, 4:47:13 AM12 votes

Perhaps a fully upgraded Support item should cause Control Wards to be free in the shop for that Champion.

PalPlays11/25/2019, 4:13:35 AM6 votes
  1. Give us more options for placing (and maybe clearing) wards. Vision should be a dynamic game with opportunities for everyone to contribute, not a burden heaped on one player in a specific role.

I briefly flashed back to having to buy Sightstone on supports AND Junglers (my two preferred roles).

Blessed Death11/25/2019, 8:10:02 PM6 votes

Here's a thought, since the item now disables any ability to farm minions and part of the support player's role is to help his team by setting up and assisting with kills, why not give the support item a reverse Pyke ult mechanic. If the support get's an assist on a kill, they get an addition gold bonus on top of the gold they would normally get for the assist. Nothing huge, just a slight bonus to supplement their income.

If Riot is focused on increasing the amount of plays on the map, this would give the support role additional incentive to roam more frequently and award them for successful ganks. Additionally, when you think about it, when a support player roams, they are being hurt because they are not in lane getting tribute or spoils of war. This can help make up for some of that loss if they're successful, but still have a punishing affect if it's not. It can force supports to learn or plan better when trying to roam for potential ganks.

Also, with the way the support items are currently set up, the window for abuse is negated. The mechanic that turns off the gold generation when minions are farmed can also be applied to disable this bonus function as well.

This is in no way trying to give the role an absurd amount of income, but just something to help out with the current woes that the role is seeing in that department.

TundraShadow11/25/2019, 3:37:32 AM6 votes

Just tried to play a game with the pauldrons, absolute trash item. Bring back targons embrace.

TundraShadow11/25/2019, 4:00:15 AM5 votes

Ok going back let me reconfirm things, melee supports in particular get screwed up insanely hard by this item. The gold flow is so awful that pauldrons is trash and to make the other items useful you need to be insanely agressive which is usually at the cost of health or even puts you at a risk of getting killed. They need to rethink/ redo the mechanics on these items. The old sup items worked fine and gave decent ammounts of gold. since this preseason I have not seen leona or taric until I tried to play them and realized why, these items make them absolute trash. The convenience of having a one and done item is great but the charge rate is god awful and it doesnt get better like targons embrace. You got a lot of charges with targon ( AND FAST ) so they really need to look at this decision

Waka FIocka11/25/2019, 8:53:43 AM5 votes

this support change is so limiting on playstyles and further widens the gap between completely dependent champs shackled to their adc & flashy new ones that can do it all (shields, cc, heals, dmg, buffs, peel) without much help from anyone. hopefully soon the less independent supp champs will be sent back to academy lol. they can train & learn some flashy esports TMs so we can enjoy them again someday :D

also i don't think the answer here is to dumb down support, which is what this really feels like. nobody asked for riot's welfare. if they want to continue 5v5 SR then maybe it would be best to make something to accommodate the supports & give them some incentives to do what is intended for them since helping the adc seems to be too much already... like, ok. if i step away for a bit to ward I'm already a level behind my adc (who is already 3 levels behind the enemy midlaner). control wards aren't cheap either but we are expected to have them at all times. another f. if supports had something interesting and independent to do that was rewarded with exp + gold then we wouldn't need to leech off of anyone. but we don't have that so riot has to keep balancing us around items that enable their idea of what support should be like (spoiler alert:handholding the adc for 15mins). balancing all these champs around 2 items is, uhm...i mean if you don't like us you can just say it. none of us would be surprised at this point

in addition to all of this , the new changes to SR create a constant hostile botlane experience where you are frequently seeing cross-lane + jg ganks for drake priority contest. during all of this it's very hard to farm cs + you are very underleveled and usually outnumbered. even completely pinched under turret since the enemy can waltz behind you too lol. turrets will not save you despite their original intention of being an impactful safe spot should someone try to dive.

alcove could be something cool for supports maybe but it's just a meme right now i think. seems like a lil extra sprinklin' of stress to top off the whole pre-s10 package.

hiyares11/24/2019, 9:51:17 PM4 votes

people forget that the whole reason that income was implemented in the first place was because you had to actually buy all your wards or the old vision stone thing that gave you wards and heath but had to be upgraded with gold. so now you dont need to actually buy too many wards you get a free item with decent stats for it being you know pretty much free. so now you gt a free 1000gold for just existing in the game as well as passive gold income that the game itself will give you. From that you have the minions you cantake from time to time when the laner is out of lane or just catching minions the laner missed. lets say over the course of the game thats another what 1k gold give or take. then you have assist gold and possibly kill gold.

the problem with support is that it is no longer a support only role its kill lane becasue of mages and the introduction of the ad version you legit see jarvan supports one shotting enemy adcs as well as ashe supports being able to help with damage as well. I honestly wish they would bring support items like item 3174 into the game because it actually rewards you for supporting. The game needs more support items with actual support style passives and actives to get supports back into the game.

Sugarlicious11/25/2019, 9:16:58 AM4 votes

I agree with everything you said, but quite honestly, I don't even bother with it. I usually play Lux or Morgana, so when I hit tier 3 in support item, I delete it. The laning phase is over, which means that I will inevitably have to help clear some lane, and yeah, I'm gonna be getting gold from that. Plus, what if I get stuck with a bad adc? it puts more pressure on me to do the damage they can't, and for that, I need some items too= I need some gold too. Now, don't get me wrong, I never KS, but people can't seem to separate the role from the gear= I can still support you with mage gear. Actually I can do it even better because I can bring them down and let you get the final hit. But again, to do that, I need gold. So...yep. F the new support items, every lane needs to learn the importance of wards, I'm not a ward bot, and I want to have some influence on my games as well. Especially in ranked games.

NTrumpWeTrust11/25/2019, 11:40:00 PM4 votes

This isn't rocket science, just remove the gold cap on support items, aka how it was before. This change is so stupid and feels awful. Change for hte sake of change

JRobin3111/25/2019, 3:57:00 PM3 votes

IMO, this is just another way in which Runes Reloaded is a failure. In the past, you could make the choice to take gold generation runes to supplement your income. The old runes always gave players some sorts of diverse options to deal with the constant changes of the game. But Runes Reloaded is really too shallow and doesn't offer good choices.

Kenbo1011/25/2019, 11:51:49 PM3 votes

Please, Riot please don't make us wait another two weeks to fix obvious issues in the game. A handful of small quick changes could do a lot for the health of the game.

darkfieranos11/30/2019, 8:47:49 AM2 votes

Side note that I barely see anyone mention, but the tanks are missing sustain in lane from support items.

BlackXIV11/26/2019, 3:34:51 AM2 votes

I know it's not ideal but just play Heimer-Swain bot (both with conqueror), buy the supp item on swain and let most of the farm to Heimer. When lanephase ends sell the support item, rinse and repeat until they both have a win+ban rate that forces rito to fix supports.

Lystrates11/26/2019, 12:06:26 PM2 votes

Riot, if you want a gold income item that meets both of your needs, then allow supports to keep getting gold through their quest after tier 3 items. Don't say "You can't keep getting gold this way and you also can't farm minions." Players should get one source of gold or the other. They shouldn't ever lose both.

This ^

I am a Support main, and playing support right now feels painful. After the first part of the game where i can get the first few items my gold generation is shut down and I start to lag behind in items and power compared to all the other players (other than the enemy support).

Now basically, mid to late game I have to expect to be carried, which feels terrible.

[sg-soraka]

TheStarGazzer2111/25/2019, 4:48:53 PM2 votes

maybe y all "support" main won t like this but i believe zyra , brand , velkoz , swain , fiddle and lux aren t supports and to the same extent the new assassins invadig botlane , just because you are underperforming in skill i say midlane doesn t mean u come bot , get free gold from old support items , are stronger than me in the early game and thus scale better bcs i can t farm against u poking my eyes out and now we can t even take dorans shield anymore, an d in the case of brand and zyra for example they would outscale many of the adcs they countered such as lucian or sivir who had very low range , riot further weakened adcs by nerfing xp gain in duo lane and removing brawlers golve in favor of agility cloak making zeal more expensive and with less attack speed . this shows that riot want characters that do much with little gold such as shielding and peeling supports and engage supports bcs cc shouldn t come with damage and is equally useful regardless of lvl and gold , a 1sec stun is still a stun , onnly diffrence is u would chunk me down in one trade bcs u had so much more gold in the past , now i won t say the new items are perfect and honestly i do think they ll need a bit more balancing ,bcs now with midlane and toplane getting more xp and prio on drakes going up , when we are both lvl 3 and the lvl 6 talon roams bot and the lvl 6 maokai tps , it s not a zyra or brand support i need , he ll just walk away and let me die , no i need a janna to peel for me , and for the love of god i never wanna see another shaco support in my life and don t even get me started on teh syndra and heimer apc in botlane who get easier laning and more waveclear and stuff bcs ap itemisation is so unfair , just compaire the 40 ad from b.f sword at 1300g to the 10%cdr ,40 ap ad 300mana witha passive that regens mana at 1300g , so yeah , botlane is so hard already for adcs and does need a bit of love , bring back the hp regen on minion executes and smal things like that , botlane is a 2v2 lane in concept but rn it s a literal fiesta and the game is basically not take down enemy nexus but rather oneshot the adc

SpecterVonBaren11/25/2019, 4:08:09 PM2 votes

At the same time... I can't help but wonder if this is Riot's attempt to deal with all the non supports plaguing bot lane. Can't say I like the scorch and burn tactic seeing how I'm a support player getting incinerated but perhaps it would be worth it if it got mages and assassins out of there.

CrimsonRakan11/26/2019, 2:50:37 PM2 votes

Just give supports back “assist gold” and/or Move the triumph perk from precision tree to inspiration tree...