Why Zoe Recast can ignore silence but not Velkoz

Ahri Inari··104 votes·4,445 views

If Zoe get silenced while Q is mid air, she can still redirect it unlike other champion spell that require a second cast too like Velkoz Q.

Just pinning a very interesting comment :

{quoted}

I feel like you could make a list of all the hidden features Zoe has that clearly go against previously set examples for similar mechanics, all of which are special-cased in her favor. So far, the ones I've seen are the following:

  • Zoe gets to recast her Q even when her ability to cast is disabled, as mentioned in the OP. Meanwhile, champions with recasts such as Anivia (E), Aurelion Sol (Q), Gragas (Q), Lux (E), Vel'Koz (Q), etc. have their ability to recast disabled while affected by ability-disabling crowd control. All of these recastable abilities are on a higher cooldown than Paddle Star, and several them are equally, if not more time-sensitive, and will miss or fizzle out if not recast.
  • Zoe's sleep crowd control cannot be cleansed while drowsy, nor will it be resisted by CC-blocking effects applied while drowsy. By contrast, other abilities with two-part crowd control, such as Fizz's ult and Morgana's ult, have each component treated separately, so that cleansing the first effect removes both, and applying crowd control immunity while the first component is active will grant immunity to the second. Many of these abilities are on a much larger cooldown than Sleepy Trouble Bubble, and typically represent a larger part of the champion's power budget that can be cleansed or resisted, as well as a higher measure of risk to said champion while applying it.
  • Zoe will still blink back to her original location if she is immobilized in the middle of her ult. This goes against all forms of mobility that do not involve dragging a champion to a fixed point (such as Jarvan or Nautilus's Qs), as immobilizing crowd control stops the user from benefiting from mobility applied after the immobilize while it persists. The only other exception to this rule, in which Ryze could benefit from his own ult while still in stasis, has just been removed. This special immunity also does not feel appropriate on an ability that is meant to force a measure of risk upon Zoe, by temporarily placing her closer to her opponents and thereby putting her at risk of getting caught.

More than just the special-casing for Zoe specifically, what annoys me most is the lack of consistency: if being able to recast an ability while silenced or not being able to cleanse her two-part CC properly are justified, that's fine, but then seeing how there are many more champions for whom that same special-casing would be equally, if not more justified, then they should benefit from these developments as well. In the end, it would be fine if either Zoe were brought in line by having her special-casing removed, or if every other champion with the same mechanics benefited from the same updates; the main problem now, which is harming clarity and generating player frustration, is the inconsistency between her own rules and everyone else's.

127 Comments

Rabblerouser73 votes

Why can Zoe instantly throw her powerful CC right in front of her if a champ gets up in her no-no zone... ... but AurelionSol Aurelion Sol can't instantly recast his Q until it's OUT of his no-no zone?

(No, really, I'm actually really angry about this.)

TheGoomyGamer38 votes

Probably because Aurelion Sol has a lot of emphasis put on his 'No-No Zone' and him being incredibly weak when his enemies get within it.

GrReaper969 votes

Ahri Anivia Lux to name a few

Votable Jester18 votes

Because Aurelion Sol would be be almost literally impossible for melee champions to fight otherwise.

Think of it this way. They jump on you, you QQ stun them and hit them with stars. Then they jump on you again and you ult them away and hit them with your stars. Finally they jump on you a third time (assuming they have this much engage) and you hit them with QQ stun again and hit them with more stars.

SooFr0sty11 votes

Janna Lulu

Don't give me ptsd please

DeadUnborn6 votes

as opposed to Zoe who gets reduced CD on her E every time she lands it?

Votable Jester3 votes

Meaning if she misses it's on a long fucking cd? Not to mention they're entirely different champions. Zoe is waaaaaaaaaaay weaker to an enemy on her than Asol would be with an instant stun.

Also wtf does this have to do with Zoe?

DeadUnborn7 votes

Also wtf does this have to do with Zoe?

Read the title of the thread

Meaning if she misses it's on a long fucking cd?

You aint missing that shit point blank

Zoe is waaaaaaaaaaay weaker to an enemy on her than Asol would be with an instant stun.

How so?

An Enemy Sutando62 votes

Ah, makes me miss old Zoe. You know, back when she didn't exist.

Over Innsmouth7 votes

You and me both.

Jofeyy9 votes

Riot just added an unnecessary headache to their own game. And I can't fathom why they did something so stupid.

Congratulations, you played yourself.

abca9859 votes

Because CertainlyT only creates special champions, with special features, for special people.

Tails901615 votes

for special people.

https://i.imgur.com/MrmGzjb.png[/img]

I mean you're not wrong, but still.

SwiftKitten8836 votes

yeah and other champs like Lux cant detonate thier E.. Ziggs cant detonate satchel charge.

but not Zoe she can do w/e the fuck she wants

Plastic 5 ADC4 votes

{quoted}

yeah and other champs like Lux cant detonate thier E.. Ziggs cant detonate satchel charge.

but not Zoe she can do w/e the fuck she wants

Fucking prick she is.

Nyarlathοtep29 votes

Its not only on silence. This happen to stuns too. It might ignore pretty much every hard cc. Dunno how riot has yet to fix. It probably will never be fixed, like yasuo's ulti interaction under turret.

abca9823 votes

Working as intended.

Hibeki5 votes

Also ignores stasis..

Beerstein22 votes

Because Zoe is a terrible design.

Nut on my Butt21 votes

Same reason her E leaves a trap zone if she misses it lol

Ahri Inari25 votes

And same reason why QSS/Clease only partially remove her E lol

Nut on my Butt17 votes

And also why Morg E doesn't block the second part like it does for other two part CC skills lol

TheGoomyGamer4 votes

This thing here is because the CC is technically one CC, so if she shields after the bubble hits but before the sleep sets in, it won't block the sleep because the CC already hit. With 'similar' abilities such as fizz ult, the two effects are completely separate.

Nut on my Butt6 votes

Yes, I'm aware, but see, the inconsistency is that using a cleansing effect like QSS only works if used after the sleep occurs and not during the slow.

So it gets the best of both worlds, cheating cleanses and spellshields.

Vistha D Reptile4 votes

And stasis effects.

SwiftKitten8812 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daddy Issues,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c4OUs1sA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-28T19:01:10.277+0000)

And also why Morg E doesn't block the second part like it does for other two part CC skills lol

this.. as a morg main (when i support) this pisses me off to no end..

Vistha D Reptile5 votes

Also why you can't Zhonya/Stopwatch the "stun" if you got hit by the bubble.

PB4UAME5 votes

This. Fuck RIOT favortism, especially when its that ridiculous. It's not like it silences you as well, you have no reason not to be able to Zhonya's. But that would fuck up Zoe, so nope, can'tletyoudothatStarfox.jpg

Infernal Ironic9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Inari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c4OUs1sA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-28T17:50:56.521+0000)

And same reason why QSS/Clease only partially remove her E lol

Not to mention there is no good time to QSS/cleanse it

You are slowed by a truck and sitting duck. She can always kill you while in slow before an actual cc you are waiting to Qss

Teridax6817 votes

I feel like you could make a list of all the hidden features Zoe has that clearly go against previously set examples for similar mechanics, all of which are special-cased in her favor. So far, the ones I've seen are the following:

  • Zoe gets to recast her Q even when her ability to cast is disabled, as mentioned in the OP. Meanwhile, champions with recasts such as Anivia (E), Aurelion Sol (Q), Gragas (Q), Lux (E), Vel'Koz (Q), etc. have their ability to recast disabled while affected by ability-disabling crowd control. All of these recastable abilities are on a higher cooldown than Paddle Star, and several them are equally, if not more time-sensitive, and will miss or fizzle out if not recast.
  • Zoe's sleep crowd control cannot be cleansed while drowsy, nor will it be resisted by CC-blocking effects applied while drowsy. By contrast, other abilities with two-part crowd control, such as Fizz's ult and Morgana's ult, have each component treated separately, so that cleansing the first effect removes both, and applying crowd control immunity while the first component is active will grant immunity to the second. Many of these abilities are on a much larger cooldown than Sleepy Trouble Bubble, and typically represent a larger part of the champion's power budget that can be cleansed or resisted, as well as a higher measure of risk to said champion while applying it.
  • Zoe will still blink back to her original location if she is immobilized in the middle of her ult. This goes against all forms of mobility that do not involve dragging a champion to a fixed point (such as Jarvan or Nautilus's Qs), as immobilizing crowd control stops the user from benefiting from mobility applied after the immobilize while it persists. The only other exception to this rule, in which Ryze could benefit from his own ult while still in stasis, has just been removed. This special immunity also does not feel appropriate on an ability that is meant to force a measure of risk upon Zoe, by temporarily placing her closer to her opponents and thereby putting her at risk of getting caught.

More than just the special-casing for Zoe specifically, what annoys me most is the lack of consistency: if being able to recast an ability while silenced or not being able to cleanse her two-part CC properly are justified, that's fine, but then seeing how there are many more champions for whom that same special-casing would be equally, if not more justified, then they should benefit from these developments as well. In the end, it would be fine if either Zoe were brought in line by having her special-casing removed, or if every other champion with the same mechanics benefited from the same updates; the main problem now, which is harming clarity and generating player frustration, is the inconsistency between her own rules and everyone else's.

Ayame Isaki5 votes

This sums up the issues I have with Zoe (from a support main's perspective) perfectly.

Sonasaurous4 votes

This needs more upvotes so Rioters might actually respond to it.

Dead Anime Dad14 votes

Because velkoz is balanced

Saianna8 votes

Because Zoe was made by CT. That's why she's allowed to have shitton of leeway while played poorly.

ÈvilMorty7 votes

Anivia Q as well

Salron5 votes

Zoe Q does nothing if she doesn't recast it Vel'koz Q still functions without being recast

Vistha D Reptile12 votes

That isn't an excuse.

Ahri Inari4 votes

Velkoz Q will miss by itself. People will just move away from Lux E.... This is the point to cc her in her combo, to interrupt it.

Salron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Inari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c4OUs1sA,comment-id=000b0001,timestamp=2018-01-29T03:44:21.989+0000)

Velkoz Q will miss by itself.

Unless you're going for crazy angles, it's pretty likely to hit the enemy in front of you

Ahri Inari5 votes

Same if you recast instantly zoe Q toward enemy unless she's go for crazy distance or angle. Oh wait.. she can goes for that.

Hibeki4 votes

Zoe recast can ignore literally everything other than death not just silence

Daunt4 votes

Coded differently. Zoe's Q is exactly a RECAST while with Vel it's a cancellation. Not sure why she can use it through CC though.

SarcasticShepard4 votes

You mean there's an answer beyond "poor design choices"?

Jinx Hunter3 votes

and the Anti-Zoe circle jerk continues. This anti Zoe sentiment is going to become a bigger meme then the Yasuo one at this rate. [sg-kiko]

CHODES AND LOADS34 votes

pointing out that a champ is arbitrarily exempt from something that affects literally every other duable casting champ in the game isnt a circle jerk, quit ur bullshit

LordGeovanni9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c4OUs1sA,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-01-28T22:19:07.142+0000)

and the Anti-Zoe circle jerk continues. This anti Zoe sentiment is going to become a bigger meme then the Yasuo one at this rate. [sg-kiko]

Question. Why is everything you don't agree with circle jerk just because you don't agree with it?

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

Question. Why is everything you don't agree with circle jerk just because you don't agree with it?

Go through my post history and find another time where I said the word circle jerk aside from this one post in this thread or in relation to Zoe. Bet you can't. Which invalidates your claim.

That is also besides the point. It is a circle jerk; whether or not I agree with it does not change the fact that its a circle jerk on the meme levels of the Yasuo hate circlejerk. Anyone with commonsense can see that. Same little whiners posting over and over instead of getting good and learning to play.

KennysDreamGirl2 votes

Velkoz q has a second cast?

Takeuchi 174 votes

you can cut the range of his q short by pressing q again after casting. comes in handy with good geometry plays

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