The problem with range critical strike and possible solution ( long text incoming)

Raoul··6 votes·651 views

(When I use the Term ADC, I talk about ranged DPS champions)

Critical strike is a lazy stat. You cant really say it in any other way.

Out of all 4 "big" moba games (LoL, DotA2, HotS, Smite) League is the only game where critical strike is such an easy stat to get. Hell, 2 of those games (DotA2 and HotS) dont even have Critical strike as a stat everyone can just get and abuse. And if a Game that is build around everything being broken says critical strike should not exist (DotA2), that says alot about the stat itself.

Lets look at Critical strike in LoL. It doubles the damage of your Auto Attacks... yeah... actually, since everyone and their mother buys IE, its a 2.5 multiplier. Lets stop for a second and think about what that means. That means the average midgame ADC deals 300-400 dmg with each autoattack. Thats more damage than the average mage does with his "spam" ability. For example, a Veigar would need 280 AP to get the same damage an ADC gets on a autoattack on his 5s CD Q.

All of that could be considered ok if critical strike was something you decide to build your items around, but that doesnt happen in LoL either. Because when you look at the normal Item build of an ADC, Critical strike is on Items that are already strong. And its ALOT of critical strike power. The average ADC will end midgame with around 70%-80% critical strike, and that comes from only 3 Items, which also give him a good amount of Attack Damage and Attack speed to top it of, and strong passive effects.

Now lets look at what ADCs are supposed todo in a game like LoL. ADCs sre supposed to be the counter to tanks, and the heaviest pusher. But in LoL, ADCs literally became a second (and most sadly, a better) Assassin class ON TOP of being what they are supposed to be. Yes, dealing 500 dmg per hit on a 2.0 Attack speed clearly makes them Tank melters, but at the same time, they assassinate every squishy who gety in their way.

I mean, if you dont belive me, just look at literally every LCS game in the last 7 Seasons... Nearly the whole time, the to go Meta was "protect the ADC". If you cant see that this is problematic... I dont know how this would be possible.

There are games, where a single misstep into the ADCs attack range, just to eat one crit can mean the fight is over for a squishy. That shouldnt be the DPS job...

Ok, I talked alot about the problem, but I can already hear the "but you cant change it now" "The game is balanced around it" and other comments who just want to sit down and accept the game as the mess it is... To those people: Seriously? You would rather accept something is broken, just because fixing it would come with alot of work? No wonder this whole world is F'd in the A....

The solution would indeed change the way the game is played alot. It would requier alot of Item changes and new Items, and would actually mean you cant just build the same Items every game like you can now.

The solution I would implement to this problem would come in 2 steps.

  1. Critical Strike should become a Melee only stat. Its totaly fine on Characters who have to dive in to get Attacks of, because you can actually play around that. Plus if Assassins are the ones who can get these 500 dmg autos of, that just them doing their job.

  2. ADCs need more Items designed to play around Tanks. Which would mean that we need alot of new Items, with armor Penetration and max. HP bonus dmg. (Since this is LoL I fel I have to say this: NOT ON THE SAME ITEMS!). Actually It would be totaly fine if an ADC who build around Armor destruction would end up with like 80% armor penetration instead of 80% crit. They are supposed ot be the ones who bring the Tanks down.

  3. Tank Items also need to be changed. Whan the ADCs no longer nuke you down like nothing, Tanks dont need to have high resistance and high HP on every item they buy. Since ADCs have to decide which way they go, Tanks should have their Items changed so they either focus on high HP or high Armor/Magic resistance. With the Nuke per second ADC gone, Tanks dont need to have 4k+ HP on top of 300 Resistance.

I have no Illusions that this would be alot of work, and not done in a Patch. Hell, it might now even be totaly done in one season. But after its done, the game would be much healthier to balance, since now you could actually balance around healthy team comps where every role has its place, instead of balancing around the broken must have ADCs.

Oh and to the question I get alot when I talk about this: "But then my ADC cant kill the mage or Assassin before he gets damage on me" Yeah, thats called COUNTERPLAY. You are not supposed to kill everything before it can touch you as an ADC. Assassins and Mages are supposed to be dangerous to you.

If you read this, thank you alot. I know like 80% of this community will just see the title and downvote because I dare to say something in this game has to change. If you are one of the peoples who wish for the game to be better, to become more healthy and more fun to play, please leave a comment here. Comment your own Ideas. If you belong to this part of the community and still think my way is wrong, leave a comment too. Tell me what you would do different.

Thank you.

29 Comments

IPERFECTO2 votes

if you're wants to take dota as an argument then you should've add doom's PERMNANENT silence,and 30% DAMAGE AURA FOR EVERY TEAMMATE ,rng stuns from autoatacks,5 second point'n'click stuns.And many, maaaaany other bs that will never fit the league...Comparing LoL and DoTA is like comparing CoD and BF, even though they both FPS it's completely different games with different designs...

Raoul2 votes

You did understand that my argument was that even a game thats ok with so many broken mechanics said "critical strike is a bad idea"?

IPERFECTO2 votes

I understood it, and you're wrong.They said it's bad idea on THEIR game, and they're right(but it still exists tho, but not the way it is in league)because it won't fit the game design,and they would've need to rebuild entire game to add that mechanics,in other words "it's a bad idea".

Kaeblen1 votes

if a game that broken deems X mechanic to be unacceptably broken...

does that tell you nothing?

IPERFECTO2 votes

That tells me that those mechanics NOT BROKEN FOR DOTA but BROKEN FOR LOL same goes to crit way it exists in LoL, it would break dota completely, same way as any broken mechanic would break from dota would break LoL.

Kaeblen1 votes

I think I may just let this one go...

I don't understand your reply, because I don't understand the grammar.

IPERFECTO2 votes

Well, my sorry for that. It's not my mother tongue, so my grammar is a bit bad(but i trying to improve that :( )

CrisisEchoes2 votes

You see... getting rid of crit isnt going to "fix" this magical issue with adcs. Sure a mage does the same damage as an adcs auto attack, HOWEVER, mages have a means of crowd controlling an adc and instagibbing them. There is zero counterplay to 95% of those scenarios other than "just dont be near them"

Squishy targets are either utility or built around killing adcs. They have everything necessary to outplay an adc if used to high efficiency. Things get a bit sketcy with champs that can self heal while healing others, or self tank while causing buffs to other champions. Thats my biggest gripe with gameplay right now.

Jannas r should not heal herself. End of story. It should knock everyone back and she should be an immobile aoe heal zone. Soraka r is a similar story. The utility champions have zero counterplay. You cant easily kill them, and you cant easily kill the thing theyre buffing. This leads to adcs being gods. There is no good target to focus in that scenario.

Take the example of a mage support brand. Your botlane wins, but in teamfights its almost laughable how easy it is to kill brand or the adc, which gives it a level of counterplay.

Soraka tho, you cant kill soraka, and you cant kill the adc. Thats where the problem lies Janna, you cant kill her, you cant kill the adc. Lulu, same situation.

Enchanter supports are a messed up class in the first place. Add ardent censer and ancient coin gold generation into the mix and you have a nightmare of a balance mess.\

The entire "adcs are op" meta started at the rework of ancient coin. The rework of ancient coin brought into play the rush the ardent censer meta. Next thing you know you have a really "fun" time.

People cant see past the thing that is strong, to see exactly why they are strong. Crit hasnt changed in forever. Its not the problem.

Raoul1 votes

Well, I would consider this, if not for a little fact that speaks against it:

ADCs make or break nearly every LCS/World (to make it easy, I will only say LCS from here on) game. They are the focus of all attention and most LCS teams play around getting the ADC fed and protecting him. But here is the thing: Enchanter Supports are rarely picked in LCS gamed. You see tank supports most of the time. Supports that are designed to keep any trouble away from the ADC while he nukes everyone down.

If your theory that ADCs are only strong because of Enchanters would be true, the LCS Meta would be very different. We would see more games with 2 Enchanters instead of 2 ADCs. We would see Champions like Lulu mid instead of Lucian or Corki.

I agree that ardent censer is a badly designed Item. I am a support Main myself and I would love to see it deleted from the game. But it only makes an already existing problem worse, its not the source of the problem.

CrisisEchoes2 votes

The lcs is... not worth judging gameplay off of. 95%-99% of players are not capable of playing adc to the level of challenger adcs. Its crazy what they can do.

That being said. League of legends teamfights are always about the adc. Its the name of the game. It makes sense that if someone is focusing a tanky target and killing it, that they should be able to focus a squishy target and kill it. Thats just simple math.

Its the way the game is, and its the way it probably always will be. So get used to it and embrace it. Or dont.

The nature of burst champions is the reason to pick them. Their damage goes off faster than a regularly scaled adc in most situations other than 40+ minutes (might i add where adcs are supposed to be strong? Struggling the whole game to get the most expensive build has a payoff? crazy.)

a 0-0 fizz/zed can instagib a 9-0 vayne. That is why people pick assassins. But if the game goes past 30+ mins and people group, that is adcs only counterplay to assasins. Which begs to the fact that assasins are unhealthy for gameplay. Not adcs.

These adcs "winning 1v1s vs assasins" everyone is bitching about is just silver assasins being bad, or the adc playing like a literal god. Nothing else.

Ahris1 votes

Adc is the easiest role in game as they dont care about skill shots or even their kit as much as mages or any other roles. As long as I can right click and be next to my tank and sup bros/sis, I will be safe from any burst. Also adc's have death dance, Maw, lifestwal, qss, etc, which all can negate Mage's kill potential to you even if they landed their skill on you(ahri).

CrisisEchoes2 votes

Ezreal Ashe Jhin Jinx Sivir Xayah some of the most skillshot intensive champions in the game are adcs. And none of those can actually be bought till lategame on adcs or they wont do damage at all. Most games dont make it to the point i can buy anything more than a hexdrinker/qss (and even that is rare)

Calling adc the easiest roll in the game is probably one of the most uninformed pieces of information someones ever stated in these boards.

Then again youre a lulu/ahri player so... theres that. "Muh charms so hard to land, I get escapes in 4 different ways. My champion takes skill cauze it has a aoe true damage nuke"

Kaeblen1 votes

The entire "adcs are op" meta started at the rework of ancient coin.

I saw this problem right when I started playing, at the beginning of season 3. every season since then the problem has gotten steadily worse. From time to time different aspects have stood out. "lifesteal is too strong", "Crit is too strong", "Enchanters are too strong"... The truth is, the only thing that has stayed "too strong" consistently, every single season, is the ranged damage auto-attack carry. The adc.

I tried designing my own game a while back, too. Ran into the same problem. Ranged, high damage auto attacks out class just about everything. Trying to balence around it is a pain in the ***.

#It has ALWAYS been this way.

Stating that the problem with adc's started with the ancient coin rework is absolutely laughable. The thing that stops me from laughing is the absolute idiocy of such a claim. Instead, I sit here and type. I tilt my head and wonder, "what could this person possibly have been thinking?" "did they type out their response without considering anything at all?" I really don't understand how such a view could come about, save through ignorance or prejudice.

CrisisEchoes2 votes

Ok since youre bronze for over 150 games this season and are still bronze after 4 seasons im going to word this simply because i dont know if any other way will work. Adcs at the start of this season were laughably weak. Adcs during the tank meta, were laughably weak. Adcs through the assasin meta were again, laughably weak. Now that riot has finally made this game a team based game, adcs are strong. You can no longer 1v5 through just killing people, you need to do it through something a bit more. They have counterplay, I manage to kill them all the time.

People are still managing to climb the brackets through all roles. The vast majority of master tier players are actually toplaners and junglers, not adcs. SO saying adcs are the problem is like saying the game is a 1v5 in low elo, and low elo is elo hell. IM sure you believe youre stuck in elo hell tho so theres probably no point in arguing with you.

Kaeblen1 votes

Ok since youre bronze

OK, why are you wasting my time with this drivel?

honestly, I called you out on something obvious. the only response you have is insults?

CrisisEchoes1 votes

Its not an insult, its a description.

Acheron161 votes

Just turn crit into an AA dmage % modifier. 10% crit means 10% stronger autos.

Give it the Ashe treatment.

Raoul1 votes

Hmmm... while it is kinda interesting, I kinda dont like the concept of just "Yeah, its more damage..." because that just means in the end, we are back where we started...

Darkdemon6531 votes

Crit isn't this magical stat that enables things to be ridiculous. It's just a third stat to go along with AD and AS. Going from 0% crit to 20% crit has the exact same damage increase as going from 1.0 AS to 1.2 AS, which the exact same damage increase as going from 100 AD to 120 AD; each of those is a 20% increase in damage. You can't just stack crit and deal a bunch of damage; all three stats have to be obtained, and as more of one is built, the value of the other two is increased. The only issue crit has is it's too good early on. It's meant to be efficient late game and inefficient early game, but it's efficient even early in the game.

{quoted}

Just turn crit into an AA dmage % modifier. 10% crit means 10% stronger autos.

Give it the Ashe treatment.

That is what it does.

Kaeblen1 votes

that solves the RNG problem, but does nothing about the OTHER problems with Crit.

  1. there is no skill necessary
  2. it is multiplicitive damage bonus, to a class with 2 other multiplicitive (total 3), and 1 linear damage bonus options.
  3. ranged dps damage over 3 seconds is currently higher than burst damage over the same period.
PopcornBunni1 votes

How about either

Force Critical strikes to occur on the last possible hit against a particular target (that is with 20% Crit, only the fifth attack against a given target will crit -- Hitting a minion four times would not make the fifth shot crit against anything other than that minion)

Or Critical Strikes occur on targets below Critical Strike Chance % health. With 50% critical strike, you deal double damage with autos to targets below 50% health.

Kaeblen1 votes

I had an idea similar to this some time ago. I was downvoted to oblivion. Tell me what you think of the summary.

Essentially, I proposed to make Fiora the poster child for what Critical stirkes should be. There are currently several effects that allow a champion to "automatically" crit. Like Pantheon 's Heartseeker ability, or Shaco 's passive. I like those. I also like the item 2015 charge-up items. My proposal was for crit to enhance THOSE abilities. In addition, though, anyone who built crit would also gain Fiora 's passive. The number of vital regions, and other details would be negotiable. Indisputably, however, that kind of position-based system would favor Crits becoming a Melee ability and not a Ranged one.

This method would allow for special cases, where certain ranged champions could benefit from crit, but it would limit the primary users to melee.

What do you think?

Raoul1 votes

I see a problem for the average melee champion here. For Fiora this system works because her Q allows her to dance around her target at low CD and low costs.

No other melee champion could pull this of like she does, therefore vital regions on the back of an enemy would basically mean they are impossible to trigger for like 90% of all champions.

Kaeblen1 votes

yea, it kinda does limit Crit to really mobile champions, doesn't it?

Yasuo Urgot Vayne Ezreal Fizz Ahri LeeSin Maokai Renekton Riven Ekko

I guess my idea would just make super mobile champions EVEN MORE frustrating.

Raoul1 votes

Honestly, from all these champions, none could use the crit like Fiora does her passive. most of them get one jump and thats it. The only exception is Vayne and Riven. and Vayne is one of the champs I do not want to have crit...

So basically... Riven...

PopcornBunni1 votes

Another solution could be to give each champion unique critical strike values. Rather than all melees getting 200% damage on them and all Marksmen getting 150%, or whatever other numbers people propose for it, have each champion have a unique critical damage modifier.

That way, fighter adcs like Sivir Quinn could get more benefit from them than sieging ADCs like Jinx Tristana . It's also "knobbier" and allows more nuanced tweaking and balancing than is used currently.

Raoul1 votes

Hmmm that would be an Interesting concept.

Would take alot of work to balance, but so would my solution.

Ahris1 votes

Imo critical shouldn't be an easy stat to get. It doesn't even make sense if someone gets like 100% critical chance. Critical should be a stat that is really hard and goes to the max of like 30%.

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