The NEW Thornmail!!!

Baigal·Sep 26, 2015·30 votes·2,888 views

Ok so I was thinking about this and I think this is a decent idea for a new thornmail update. I've got 2:

**+100 armour and: Unique Passive: On being hit by basic attacks, returns 20% of damage in its original form. **(NOT MAGIC DAMAGE) So for example if you were hit with Vayne's silver bolt, 20% of that damage is then reflected onto her along with her auto attacks. I'm not too sure if it could reflect damage from spells like ezreal's q... Maybe along with 5% of your armour as magic damage

2.+100 armour: Unique Passive: Reflects 10% of damage from basic attacks to the dealer as magic damage. Unique Active: For 3 (or 4) seconds reflects around 50% of all damage from basic attacks back to the dealer(s) in its original form.

It would be nice if you guys could upvote this so Riot can see to deal with the "NERF VAYNE" crisis.

Thanks, Samimusha

38 Comments

DemacrySep 26, 20155 votes

The buff we need to start with is item 3075 needs to inflict Grievous Wounds.

Noam BraumskySep 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The buff we need to start with is needs to inflict Grievous Wounds.

Honestly if this were applied I think item 3075 would be in a great spot right now.

Pale PirateSep 27, 20151 votes

That would make it kinda op, considering life steal is its only sensible counter.

Daedalus871Sep 27, 20151 votes

You have it all wrong.

item 3075 counters item 1053 , not the other way around.

It should apply Grievous Wounds and the damage on it should (potentially) be reduced.

Shroom JunkieSep 27, 20154 votes

Good idea. But when you say 20% of that damage, do you mean like, with a Vayne AA that procs Silver Bolts, and her Q, would it reflect 20% of the AA damage(physical), 20% of the Q damage(physical), and then 20% of the Silver Bolts damage as true damage, and what about BotRK passive on-hit? Or like, 20% of all physical back, 20% of all true damage back, and 20% of any magic damage such as with Devourer or Wit's End?

BaigalSep 27, 20153 votes

Good Question,

Yeh that's kinda what I meant but I would add up the damage from q and basic attacks as Vayne's q empowers her next basic attack so i would work out 20% of all of that.

With regards to BotRK's passive on-hit, I would reflect the 20% of the 8% amount of damage dealt (based on their current hp) to the dealer back into physcial damage. For example, if someone attacked a champ with currently 1000hp, the BotRK passive would do an additional 80 physical damage to that champ (along with basic attacks) so 20% of that 8% physical damage would be dealt back to the dealer which would be 16 damage in physical damage.

Sorry if I confused you..

Shroom JunkieSep 27, 20153 votes

No, actually you explained it quite well for how complicated it sounds. Lol.

dangopeeSep 26, 20153 votes

That active plus rammus taunt is zero counterplay point and click to kill adc though...

Boop Daddy Sep 26, 20156 votes

Adc should have cleanse/qss for rammus anyway.

JustMyBassCannonSep 26, 20153 votes

When was the last time you saw a marksman take Cleanse?

And yes, they should counter-build with QSS against certain comps, but unless they rush it first item, Rammus is going to have Thornmail before them.

RisenDarkKnightSep 26, 20151 votes

Okay but rammus taunt into his team's burst damage is a kill anyway. If your adc get's hard cced with no qss they almost always die unless they are peeled for really hard.

JustMyBassCannonSep 26, 20152 votes

...neither of those answer my question or negate my point.

Please, somebody actually discuss with me. I'm not being sarcastic or derisive, I want to understand, so talk to me.

IcyPepperSep 27, 20158 votes

When was the last time you saw a marksman take Cleanse?

Once.

And because of it, the Vayne (waaaaay before cinderhulk came out) secured a 1v2 double kill by surprising an Annie with a stun and exhaust. Thanks to that, I won third place in that tournament.

Heal is useful, but other summoner spells do have their place. It's not meta, but Cleanse can be pretty useful in the right situations if you know what you're doing.

JustMyBassCannonSep 27, 20152 votes

I won't disagree that it's powerful when the player knows what they're doing.

It's just an extremely rare sight. It's not the default choice, it's an option for the right situation. And there are a lot of players that don't know when to shift for that situation.

IcyPepperSep 27, 20151 votes

True >.>

ZT XperimentorSep 26, 20151 votes

Most carries can level undamaged towers in a few seconds with only a 2 items. Rammus needs a full build to do that, and he's still melee.

IcyPepperSep 27, 20151 votes

Well to be fair, we're kind of interesting in buffing the item that helps not get right clicked to death.

Photos of GhostsSep 27, 20152 votes

Rammus's taunt's range can barely reach the center of the largest champions, let alone ranged ones.

terkmcSep 27, 20151 votes

So are we just going to conveniently forget the fact that Rammus has to get into melee range with the adc first before calling it zero counter-play point and click?

Meep ManSep 26, 20152 votes

Why not just buff the current one? 1.) is actually a nerf since you still get more armor than magic resist. Its only a buff if the enemy is Vayne or someone with super on-hits. 2.)... Im not sure. I feel like that would put a few champions over the edge, like Rammus especially.

BaigalSep 26, 20152 votes

I guess but it would then make the adc have to focus someone else at the risk of losing too much hp.

If that feels a bit too much then lets tone it down to about 40% maybe?

Noam BraumskySep 27, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=brQ2s3PV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-26T17:56:18.471+0000)

2.)... Im not sure. I feel like that would put a few champions over the edge, like Rammus especially.

I can't say I'd mind seeing Rammus actually being used. He gets outclassed by nearly every tank jungler.

Silver FluffenbuSep 27, 20152 votes

item 3075
+100 Armor Unique Passive: Upon being hit by a basic attack, reflects magic damage back to the attacker equal to 15% of the incoming damage and marks Thornmail with Mailed Thorns for 3 seconds, stacking up to 3 times. The third stack consumes all Mailed Thorns to blind the attacker for .5 seconds.

BudupopsSep 26, 20151 votes

YES PAPA

BaigalSep 26, 20151 votes

Thanks guys for all the feedback - (Highest amount of likes i've every had on a post I think..)

A Miss FortuneSep 27, 20151 votes

I don't think Thornmail will ever be a balanced item, I just don't like how it can force an AD Carry to buy 1 - 2 large Lifesteal items to counter a moderate costing Armor item and if it isn't in that state, It's useless. The item isn't that great right now, but I've had my fair share of times where I was 20-0, didn't build Bloodthirster, and had the 0-9 tank do 900+ damage with Thornmail alone to me.

C4KillerZ9081Sep 27, 20151 votes

What kills Vayne other than the "New" item 3075

Robert SmithSep 27, 20151 votes

Toggle: return 20% of all physical damage Except Auto Attacks, 10 second cooldown in between. With this thornmail will counter AD casters while still having weakness

Pale PirateSep 27, 20152 votes

RIP JarvanIV Gangplank MonkeyKing Zed Varus Pantheon Nasus LeeSin Khazix Jayce Graves Caitlyn Riven

BaigalSep 27, 20151 votes

Not too sure about some of these champs you've listed here as more of their damage output comes from their spells such as gp's barrels and kha'zix's q

Pale PirateSep 27, 20151 votes

Yes, robobert recommended it should be able to return physical spell damage.

BaigalSep 27, 20151 votes

Yes I see now, didn't notice it was a reply to Robobert's comment.

Robert SmithSep 27, 20151 votes

On the bright side the ADC can attack them without taking damamge so during team fight s you decide who is a bigger threat

Pale PirateSep 27, 20151 votes

wtf man? If you want to nerf Vayne then ask riot to nerf Vayne , but don't turn an item to god-tier status just to nerf one champion. Who the heck is crazy enough to upvote you?

PePsiLemoNNSep 27, 20151 votes

And then you will downvote his thread about nerfing vayne ;) well thought

BaigalSep 27, 20151 votes

This "New" thornmail isn't only gonna deal with just vayne you know? I'm just saying vayne will be one of the main highlights if this thornmail were to implemented into the game. There are plenty of other champions that this can apply too such as riven and other adc's. This thornmail actually gives a chance to top laners to not get one shotted by people like vayne

AuroramancerSep 27, 20151 votes

Option 1 is rubbish, the reflected damage would be too varied between different Marksmen.

Option 2 is good though. Effective windows of opportunity for the tank to make good use of Thornmail.

But we need to keep Thornmail's current armor ratio so that damage-bruisers aren't picking it up as their only tank item.

Daedalus871Sep 27, 20151 votes

Thornmail: 100 Armor Unique Passive: Taking Physical damage applies Grievous wounds to the attacker for 3 seconds. Additionally, whoever AA's you takes 40% bonus armor as magic damage.